ACMP-73 +++++Neve 73 CLone

[CrankyRayHanky]

I have 2 coming in...me and my puppy are barking at every car that drives by

[elisasound]

Originally Posted by CrankyRayHanky

I have 2 coming in...me and my puppy are barking at every car that drives by

I know everyone else is thinking it, but since I'm the only girl around here, I'll say it "Awwwwwww!"

[CrankyRayHanky]

Received and did a quick test on the (2) 84s

Sounds great, eq is way cool, no hum issues

However, i do have that "pop" problem on the gain on both units- it's loud enough to sound like it'll cause damage if levels are cranked

Easy enough to work around until we get a solution
Overall, these pres and eq sound killer, and I'll be ecstatic when the pop issue is resolved

[alkooloid]

Notice how the reversed color scheme messed with the logo?
The "N" got munched.
They'll be worth more on the vintage market
in 2037 because of it. The unmodded ones will be worth more
because of the special hum. Otherwise you
have to use the UAD hum plug in, and everyone
knows it's good, but not the same.

Today I did a test, kind of a double one.
I've been astounded by the awesome quality of the
1200 combined with the '81. Yes it's a little edgy
compared with the Fred Cameron C12 that I've used a lot,
but $$$. So I decided to pretend the noise isn't an issue
and EQ a great vocal sound, which I did. Really pretty stellar,
minus the noise. I mean the noise is not such that you
can't judge the sound, or at least to me.
So I recorded my voice into Logic with and without the EQ
carefully matching the levels of the 2 parts. Then I pulled up
Wavearts "Mr. Noise" plugin and had it "learn" the hum.
I must say, that bit of algorithmic "tricknology" is pretty magical.
Sounds amazing for what it does, and saved my butt many times,
even if it is cheating. Hum gone, leaving a great vocal sound.

I then whipped out the UAD 1081 plug -in.
On the portion of the vocal without the EQ from the
ACMP I copied the setting I had on the ACMP.
I guess it'd be no surprise to the fellas (and lady)
who know hardware, the real(or ChiNeve!) kicked the
plug's butt.

What does this mean?
Not much, but it kept me off the street for awhile.

Great songs, Elisa!

[Crash]

Originally Posted by CrankyRayHanky

Received and did a quick test on the (2) 84s

Sounds great, eq is way cool, no hum issues

However, i do have that "pop" problem on the gain on both units- it's loud enough to sound like it'll cause damage if levels are cranked

Easy enough to work around until we get a solution
Overall, these pres and eq sound killer, and I'll be ecstatic when the pop issue is resolved

The pop issue happens where the 2nd gain stage kicks in and has been deemed normal as part of the design on these units. The work around is to put the unit in line when going past this one detent on the gain knob. If you really want to hear something odd, put the knob between detents and listen to the unit...just makes sure your monitors are down low. On the original units these were patterned after, that position is an off. This issue is way OK by me for what we paid in my book.

I am baffled on the EQ noise. Some seem not to have it while others do not. I tested my 84 with headphones and I am sure I would have noticed the EQ problem in that monitoring scenario but I too, do not remember any issues. I will check them again when I get a chance.

[Brad McGowan]

I'd be surprised if everyone's units were not having the same problem. It's just that some of us are listening in environments that mask the noise, or not listening loud enough to hear it above our noise floors. Or for some others they just don't mind it. On the 84's it's obvious to me. On the 73's I need to put my ear within a couple inches of the speaker.

I did the same test with the UAD 1081 and also in the context of a mix. I found no proverbial butt kicking either way. But I did notice that the software sounded cleaner and less blurry. Whether that's good or bad is entirely subjective. My conclusion was that I would feel comfortable using them almost interchangeably. I'm so over needing to feel that hardware has to be superior all the time to justify the often higher price tag. But that's just me.

Brad

[cnixon]

I have the ACMP-73 and 84, and both so far are as quiet as any pre-amp I have ever used, with or without the EQ engaged. While I am very impressed with both units, the EQ on the 84 did something I never thought would happen, made my vocal sound half decent!
What these pre's can do, the price we paid, we are some lucky people. I am looking forward to the next Group Buy, gonna buy something, don't care if I need it or not.

Charlie

[redddog]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I'd be surprised if everyone's units were not having the same problem. It's just that some of us are listening in environments that mask the noise, or not listening loud enough to hear it above our noise floors. Or for some others they just don't mind it. On the 84's it's obvious to me. On the 73's I need to put my ear within a couple inches of the speaker.

I think you might be right.

We haven't heard anyone with multiple units report that one 84 was noisy and the other was fine. At least I can't remember such a report.

I think we have to realize that these were so cheap because they were a work in progress. That's the way I'm looking at it. I think that what we really paid for was a very nice case, a close to completed circuit design, some fairly good components and admission into a group that is committed to everyone getting to the final vision as easily and cheaply as possible.

I'm really happy with that. And I think that once we get there, we're going to own world class preamps at 1/15th of the cost.

[CrankyRayHanky]

Originally Posted by redddog

We haven't heard anyone with multiple units report that one 84 was noisy and the other was fine. At least I can't remember such a report.

I thought I did read just that a few pages back (?)

Regardless, I'll take a closer inspection on my units for the noise floor
Did I mention I love the sound? Only one day in, but I'm a happy customer

[Brad McGowan]

I feel like I'm in the minority here. I'm less concerned with the sound right now because functionally these EQ's are not happening. I could care less about the quality of the preamp because I already have an arsenal of preamps I'm quite enamored with. An equalizer, however, that adds audible hum is not very useful to me at the moment. It's like my stupid Juno 106 which is totally on the fritz. It makes synthesizer sounds in addition to giving me random bonus background noises like crakles, swooshes, and the general sound of electronics death. Total mood killer.

On a more positive front I am working towards fixing that hum.

Brad

[BudgetMC]

Yea Positivity!!

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

On a more positive front I am working towards fixing that hum.

Brad

[redddog]

I think you might be, Brad. (In the minority, that is)

Speaking for myself, I didn't have a ton of preamps I'm enamored with. In fact, I was working with a 800r and an MPA Gold.

To be fair, I love that 800r and the MPA is better than it should be but these pres (regardless of the EQ issues) represent the best pres that I own BY FAR. I saw the value from a mile away and thats why I bought 6 84s and 2 73s.

That said, I'm quite bummed that they don't work as advertised right out of the box. A little of a letdown but as I said in a previous post, when the issues are ironed out, these will be utterly fantastic - the EQs included.

[OldTimey]

while i definitely need more preamps, i was mainly looking forward to using the EQ on my single 73. I've got all the UAD plugs and use them all the time, but am just starting to use my interface more like a patchbay, sending signals in and out, through guitar pedals, compressors, whathave you. An outboard EQ is something I don't have, and I wanted one mainly for creative purposes. There's something cool about just sending signal out, making something cool, and then writing it to disk. I could care less about digital converter degradation if the end result is interesting.

i hope my unit is easy to fix.

[CrankyRayHanky]

Originally Posted by leadvox

First Impressions:

I received two of the 84s.

One is dead silent (no hum or buzz) with EQ engaged and fully boosted on all frequencies.

The other exhibits the buzz and hum, making the EQ virtually (entirely?) unusable. The meter on the noisy pre also seems to have little to do with the audio that's actually passing through the pre. It is peaked while the output pot is at zero, and as the output is increased, the needle will slowly return to zero then begin to climb again. I can't find any trim pot for the meter. Oh... None of the EQ LEDs work either.

The pots feel different between the two units too. I'll have to open them up to see if there's a difference.

I knew I saw one with mixed results

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

It makes synthesizer sounds in addition to giving me random bonus background noises like crakles, swooshes, and the general sound of electronics death.

People pay good money for that these days. Sell it as "circuit bent" - or better yet, make a trendy noise record.

AH had suggested that the inductor quality in the pre's was not very good. Could this have something to with varying EQ noise?

[alkooloid]

Y'know, Brad, I'm hearing that swooshing thing too.
Jeez. Well, no panicking here. Maybe it's the medication,
but I feel that if I just take them to church and have the preacher
dip them in water...

Should they be turned on when I do this or not?

[Rader Ranch]

Originally Posted by alkooloid

Y'know, Brad, I'm hearing that swooshing thing too.
Jeez.

I think he was talking about his Juno for that part.

[alkooloid]

Maybe the swooshing is my dbx 160.
I had a certain guy in LA work on it and it's never been the
same. It's now great for recording dog whistles, but
it's not his bollocks as it once was. Too pretty.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by CrankyRayHanky

I knew I saw one with mixed results

Thanks for finding this. The homework assignment for Leadvox is then to take some pictures of both units, especially the inductors and more importantly the power transformer. I wonder if each of his units has a different power transformer?

While the inductors may not be Cinemag or Sowter quality, they are of the "pot core" type which I was told by folks at Cinemag is generally the least prone to noise.

Brad

[leadvox]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

The homework assignment for Leadvox is then to take some pictures of both units,
Brad

Right. I'm hoping to find some time soon to open them up. The pots are definitely different. At least I have one that is problem free.

[Coyoteous]

- still looking for Alan Hyatt's comment about the inductor quality. In the mean time, there's this from 9/11:

Originally Posted by Chance

UPDATE
I was just notified that our gear is at the port in China waiting to be loaded on the boat.
On another note, I was just notified that 54 of the mic pres failed their quality control tests. These pres are manufactured in groups of one hundred. Because 54 failed, they are pulling the whole group of 100 just to be sure. (maybe these were made on a Monday or Friday) They are shipping only 900 out of the 1000 pc order and will ship the rest at their expense in about 2 weeks. I don't know when the boat will shove off, but they say this trip to the port of LA will be about 14 days. The broker will keep me informed but it won't be much longer.

1000 pieces is a lot. Parts could have been substituted along the way, etc.

[David R.]

The red no's reign. Dear.

I am pretty certain I will not see my order this year. Bummer.

Oh well, someone has to be last in line.

[nuemes]

Posted on original thread here:
ACM & ACMP Reviews by Nuemes - Page 2 - Home Recording

Ok, I pulled out nearly every preamp from Mackie on up that I had available for comparison. Exact same cords used for each test.

None of the preamps actually ran out of juice but many of them introduced distortion when pushed. For folks not familiar with the SM7 it requires a good clean 55dB+ of gain and this will impact the preamp comparisons accordingly. Mics requiring less gain will have a different interaction with the preamps.

All units produced an audible hiss when played within a mix. Only the Pacifica (without pad engaged) was low enough not to consider gating.

Chain: Male vocal (quiet/breathy intimate pop tune) > SM7 > pre > Lynx Aurora 8 AD/DA

In order of preference, most to least liked:

Avalon M5: Smooth sound by way of deep yet controlled bass. Bass is deep and full. Intimate sound. Some people say the M5 sounds dull bit I think the M5 is just more true to the source in not hyping the high end like many of the other pre's I have. I am appreciating the M5 more & more through these tests. Noise floor sounds equal to the UA610 & Digi 002.
Verdict: Best vibe, noise floor could be better.

Pacifica: Thinner than the M5 but still nice bass. Not quite as grainy as the UA610. Has that slightly Quad 8/Neve-ish sound. Lowest noise floor of all preamps.
Verdict: Best noise floor, second best vibe.

Universal Audio M610: More high freq response than the M5, noticeable on T's & P's where the UA sounds grainier compared to the smoothness of the M5. This is not necessarily bad but did not suit the particular song so much compared to the M5. Frankly, the UA610 doesn't have enough clean gain to get the maximum benefit from the SM7. Noise floor sounds equal to the M5.
Verdict: Useable but can't compete with the M5 & Pacifica.

Digi 002: Not too shabby. Has a smoothness that's nice. Gain was nearly maxed yet didn't distort. The Digi 002 sits right in the middle in regards to the SM7 between the good sounding pre's and the non-contenders.
Verdict: Useable, more impressed than I expected.

Spirit M8: Deeper bass than the ACMP's and more clean gain than the ACMP's. But also a less controlled sound than the M5, Pacifica, Digi 002, etc. Second lowest noise floor - WOW! Keep in mind the Spirit M8 has 8 pres and is a mixer that goes for $400 used...when you do the math... but then, who's going to be using 8 SM7's at the same time, etc?
Verdict: Not terrible, good bang/buck if you need many pre's.

Spirit M8 (with EQ engaged): Hiss on par with Avalon M5 becomes apparent.
Verdict: Not terrible, good bang/buck if you need many pre's.

It's all downhill from here:

Pacifica (pad on): Well, this is a bit unfair because when are you going to engage a pad on an SM7? So take this one as a lark not to be held against A-Designs. Gain had to be almost totally maxed and the resulting hiss rendered the track useless. However, it did impart a nice distorted low midrange that you hear on the stuff they play by Nat Cole around this time of year. If the hiss weren't an issue I'd find many uses for this combination though not necessarily on this particular track.
Verdict: unacceptable

Maickie 1202VLZ: More clean gain than the ACMPs, less bass and a raspy high end full of siblance compared to the Spirit M8.
Verdict: unacceptable

ACMP84 (no EQ): Whoa! Distortion! All the sudden I sound like The Strokes. Tons of consonants and sibilance distorting. Not cool. I maxed the output (the 'clean' volume) and set the gain to an acceptable level for tracking and it's quite clear that the ACMP73 can't give enough clean juice to the SM7 without distorting. It distorts considerably more than the UA610. And the distortion (dare I even say color?) is not nearly as nice as the Pacifica with pad engaged. It sounds cheap, yet it does have an ok bass response. Anyway, I see no use for the ACMP73 with the SM7 given the other pre's I've got. Interestingly the noise floor sounds slightly more quiet than the M5 but not as quiet as the Pacifica or Spirit M8.
Verdict: unacceptable

ACMP73 (no EQ): very similar to the ACMP73 though the 84 has what sounds like a very slightly better midrange. Again, I won't find uses for it with an SM7.
Verdict: unacceptable

ACMP73 & ACMP84 (with EQ engaged): Garbage. There is not only hiss (that I can deal with) but a loud hum when the EQ is engaged on both of the units when the output is maxed.
Verdict: totally unacceptable, I'd return this unit if I'd purchased it for use with the SM7 alone. Bad, bad, bad... stike

Well, in regards to the SM7 and preamps I'd say it's fairly safe to say you get what you pay for.

Too bad nobody tested the ACMP's with an SM7 before putting them into production (ahem...) tutt

(On the bright side, again, I've found the ACMP73 good for bass DI, kick & snare and the ACMP84 good for kick & snare so take this review in context given the nature of the mic).

[redddog]

Jesus.

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by nuemes

Posted on original thread here:
ACM & ACMP Reviews by Nuemes - Page 2 - Home Recording

ACMP84 (no EQ): Whoa! Distortion! All the sudden I sound like The Strokes. Tons of consonants and sibilance distorting. Not cool. I maxed the output (the 'clean' volume) and set the gain to an acceptable level for tracking and it's quite clear that the ACMP73 can't give enough clean juice to the SM7 without distorting. It distorts considerably more than the UA610. And the distortion (dare I even say color?) is not nearly as nice as the Pacifica with pad engaged. It sounds cheap, yet it does have an ok bass response. Anyway, I see no use for the ACMP73 with the SM7 given the other pre's I've got. Interestingly the noise floor sounds slightly more quiet than the M5 but not as quiet as the Pacifica or Spirit M8.
Verdict: unacceptable

ACMP73 (no EQ): very similar to the ACMP73 though the 84 has what sounds like a very slightly better midrange. Again, I won't find uses for it with an SM7.
Verdict: unacceptable

ACMP73 & ACMP84 (with EQ engaged): Garbage. There is not only hiss (that I can deal with) but a loud hum when the EQ is engaged on both of the units when the output is maxed.
Verdict: totally unacceptable, I'd return this unit if I'd purchased it for use with the SM7 alone. Bad, bad, bad... stike

Well, in regards to the SM7 and preamps I'd say it's fairly safe to say you get what you pay for.

Reading this, I had to go plug my SM7 into my ACMP84.

Yes, it is extremely easy to run it into the red. And yes, when you do that, it distorts.

So turn the gain knob down. Miraculously, the sound is now clear and clean.

Other mics behave the same way. It has nothing to do with the SM7.

And I just re-checked my 84 with good headphones in a quiet room. No hum, buzz, noise, or anything else associated with the EQ. The noise between the detents in that one spot on the gain pot is there, but the EQ is definitely clean. The phase inversion button is weird though... it seems to be doing more than inverting the signal... it just sounds wrong. Maybe it's just me.

I still need to check phase between mic and line inputs to be sure, as I thought I read someone found one wired backwards.

[redddog]

There sure seem to be a lot weird things associated with these.

I'm sure they'll get straightened out but as the reports start funneling in, it seems like there will be PLENTY that will need to be addressed.

I get a little more disappointed each day.

[PoorGlory]

I might not have been clear in my last post... I found nothing wrong or out of the ordinary with the preamp/SM7 combo. I think the guy I quoted either had his gain staging wrong or a defective unit.

That said, I think the 84 sounds awesome. Thankfully, I have a buzz free unit, so playing with the EQ is pretty satisfying. Good stuff. thumbsup

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by redddog

There sure seem to be a lot weird things associated with these.

I'm sure they'll get straightened out but as the reports start funneling in, it seems like there will be PLENTY that will need to be addressed.

I get a little more disappointed each day.

Exactly what were you expecting at these prices? Did you expect to sell off a five thousand dollar preamp and replace it with this?

Either you find an application that maximizes the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses, or you don't, and sell it off to someone else who can.

The Tooth Fairy doesn't do Neve clones.

Neither does Santa.

Peace,
3rd&4thT

[redddog]

Originally Posted by 3rd&4thT

Exactly what were you expecting at these prices? Did you expect to sell off a five thousand dollar preamp and replace it with this?

Either you find an application that maximizes the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses, or you don't, and sell it off to someone else who can.

The Tooth Fairy doesn't do Neve clones.

Neither does Santa.

Peace,
3rd&4thT

Fair enough.

I think I was expecting too much.

[3rd&4thT]

Originally Posted by redddog

Fair enough.

I think I was expecting too much.

It's easy enough to do.

I had the same reaction with three different group buy mics that don't work in my context and will be sold off. They're good in some ways, bad in others, and will find homes with people who can use what I can't.

At these prices, we can afford to experiment. Not like buying a non-returnable Neumann at full retail and finding it sucks.

Best,
3rd&4thT