ACMP-73 +++++Neve 73 CLone

[MATTI]

My friend,
you did not follow your messages?


Matti

[Chance]

GASP!!
I finally came up for some air. Well everything is ordered and paid for and manufacturing has begun. There was quite a bit of communication problems with various subjects. I got so frustrated that I ended up speaking with them and that was worse. They would tell me something that I didn't understand and I would say "huh?" Then they would reply "so sorry Mr Chance we no understand huh"
Any way the ACM-300 was reciently purchased by a name brand as an exclusive. (I wonder who LOL) Because there was not enough time to get back to everyone, I substituted the ACM-200 FET ribbon mic. The price was almost the same and if the 200 is not desired, I will refund your cost of the 300. Someone pointed out that comparing the resale value of the 200 vs the value of a refund, you will still be ahead because you could sell the 200 for more than the refund. Your call. The pre amps will be dark bronze brushed aluminum in colour. I mentioned that "the xfrmrs are not made in China" I might be wrong. They mentioned that "they do not make the xfrmrs and out source them" and I assumed that ment that they imported them. When I cornered and asked them, they said "so sorry, confidential" This is typical with all the new "confidential agreements" with manufacturers not to reveal sources. This is no doubt a result of us revealing (in past group buys) who actually manufactures the brand name mics. I'll continue to update as news comes in.
Oh yeah about the "announcment" we're going to wait until our ship comes in to get things in place.

[Kris]

Hey Chance. You da man!

[Chance]

Huh?

[Mylithra]

You Are Fine Chance

[Chance]

Reciently?

[Kris]

Wikipedia says...

Calling someone "the man" can also be a form of praise. This may refer to the recipient's status as the leader or authority within a particular context, or it might be assumed to be a shortened form of a phrase like "He is the man (that is in charge)." In more modern usage, it can be a superlative compliment indicating that the subject is currently standing out amongst his peers even though they have no special designation or rank, such as a basketball player who is performing better than the other players on the court. It can also be used as a genuine compliment with an implied, slightly exaggerated or sarcastic tone, usually indicating that the person has indeed impressed the speaker but by doing something relatively trivial.

[elisasound]

Chance is the man.

Originally Posted by Kris

Wikipedia says...

Calling someone "the man" can also be a form of praise. This may refer to the recipient's status as the leader or authority within a particular context, or it might be assumed to be a shortened form of a phrase like "He is the man (that is in charge)." In more modern usage, it can be a superlative compliment indicating that the subject is currently standing out amongst his peers even though they have no special designation or rank, such as a basketball player who is performing better than the other players on the court. It can also be used as a genuine compliment with an implied, slightly exaggerated or sarcastic tone, usually indicating that the person has indeed impressed the speaker but by doing something relatively trivial.

[BudgetMC]

Unless this turns out to be some sort of Federal Trade Commission sting... in which case it will turn out that Chance was "The Man."

[infopimpster]

I'm one of the losers who forgot to pay... darnit. Good luck all you guys.

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by Chance

Well,, I was hoping the xfrmrs were NOT from China.

Thought I could help here. I am at the 797 Audio factory as I am here for the Palm Show in Beijing. John MA told me he was selling this Neve clone to you. I can post a photo of the unit if you want, but it is currently Blue in color.

The unit made by 797 Audio definitely uses Chinese transformers, and they usually do not do anodized finishes as it costs too much to do. At $160.00 per unit for the mic pre, I do not think you can expect anything but paint.

I can assure you the transformers are Chinese. We passed on these units some time ago, but I am sure you will do well with them. There are a few other units as well you should look at...They will not do the SSL Buss compressor because that is committed to Chameleon Labs, but they have an LA2A clone and some other units....

Good luck with them...If anyone wants photos, I can shoot them tomorrow....

[MaDHaTTeR]

Originally Posted by alanhyatt

Thought I could help here. I am at the 797 Audio factory as I am here for the Palm Show in Beijing. John MA told me he was selling this Neve clone to you. I can post a photo of the unit if you want, but it is currently Blue in color.

The unit made by 797 Audio definitely uses Chinese transformers, and they usually do not do anodized finishes as it costs too much to do. At $160.00 per unit for the mic pre, I do not think you can expect anything but paint.

I can assure you the transformers are Chinese. We passed on these units some time ago, but I am sure you will do well with them. There are a few other units as well you should look at...They will not do the SSL Buss compressor because that is committed to Chameleon Labs, but they have an LA2A clone and some other units....

Good luck with them...If anyone wants photos, I can shoot them tomorrow....

So you're essentially implying Chance is a liar?
If he and his tech spent a year developing these, how exactly did you pass on them?
Interesting...

[tarnationsauce]

I don't care where the transformers are made. If they suck I'll replace them.
If they are the same as the ones in the CL units, they're not too bad.

Chance has said there is an announcement he has in store. Probably a compressor of some kind. A SSLBus comp would be nice, so would a LA2A. But an LA2A would probably be pretty expensive.

I do hope anodizing proves too expensive. It just looks cheap (ironically). I think paint or powder coating looks best.

[MATTI]

Yes, Alan ,send the pics!
I´ve seen one picture of supposedly same units taken at the
Musicmesse. As for transformers -they might be same as with
.....eon uses by the looks?

Regards

Matti

[toolz]

The 797 1081 Neve clone pictured at the Prodigy forum looks to have all the right kind of building blocks inside, Mic, line and output transformers in the correct shape and size. Class A 1272 output stage (the original 1081 was class AB) and inductor based EQ with the right amount of Caps. It only seems that it uses non-discrete opamps, thats not too much of a problem.

It maybe a case of dropping Carnhill transformers into place and maybe changing the caps on the HF boost and you have some thing very hot indeed!

[MATTI]

The opamps are for the numerous leds like ol, on/of etc. and meters on the other modells
I´m told

Matti

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by MaDHaTTeR

So you're essentially implying Chance is a liar?
If he and his tech spent a year developing these, how exactly did you pass on them?
Interesting...

I think your making more of this than you should. I am not calling anyone anything. However, if Chance and his tech have told you they designed this unit, then I guess I have to say that is not the truth.

This unit, while not a bad unit was made by 797 Audio designers some time ago. It was done after Chameleon Labs had 797 Audio take a Neve design and copy it, which they did. As most companies do in China, they then make a couple of changes and make a product of it. This is the unit Chance is buying, and he had nothing to do with the design of it. Chance is a businessman, all he is doing is buying it, changing the color and putting his name on it. Hell, if you called John MA and order them, you would get the same deal as long as you bought 1000 units. I would guess you can buy less, but you would pay a little more, so Chance is just doing what he does, but he has nothing to do with the design of this at all....

John Ma of 797 Audio yesterday told me Chance sent the money and never asked for or wanted a sample, which John Ma was surprised at. Now I have been doing business with 797 Audio for 10 years. Some who know me on this site will confirm that, and John Ma is a good friend of mine. He does not lie to me, and I have a ton of knowledge about this unit.

Once again, this does not make the unit bad...One can replace the transformers, and do other mods to make it better if they choose. It is a good box for $160.00 cost. I have no clue what anyone is paying for it, but Chance has always said that he does these group buys to only make a little money. Of course if he is making $200.00 profit, then he is making $200,000.00 on this deal...Not bad for arranging a deal, but hell he is entitled.

Chance is buying from companies who sell their goods. He does not design the goods. What he does is offer you guys a good deal on some product, and you buy it. I have no problem with that, but to say he designed it, and that the manufacture will not tell him what the transformers are as it is confidential is a stretch at best. With all due respect!

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by MATTI

Yes, Alan ,send the pics!
I´ve seen one picture of supposedly same units taken at the
Musicmesse. As for transformers -they might be same as with
.....eon uses by the looks?

Regards

Matti

Hey Matti, yep...same units that were at Musikmesse. In fact John Ma asked me to take them home but I had no room for them...So the ones that were blue in color are the very same ones you guys are buying.

I will take the photos tomorrow and get them up as soon as I can. Again, for $160.00 each to buy and a few hundred in upgrades, the unit would not be bad, but it uses the same transformers as ......eon uses. Trust me... I have seen this unit inside out and our designers have helped them fix some EQ issues they could not fix.

We just passed on them for many reasons

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by tarnationsauce

I don't care where the transformers are made. If they suck I'll replace them.
If they are the same as the ones in the CL units, they're not too bad.

Chance has said there is an announcement he has in store. Probably a compressor of some kind. A SSLBus comp would be nice, so would a LA2A. But an LA2A would probably be pretty expensive.

797 Audio makes the SSL Buss compressor clone for CL, and they, 797 Audio have built an LA2A. They copied an old schematic and built it. I have seen it. Again it is very low cost. Maybe this is what Chance will announce, but who knows. Once again, this was not designed by Chance, it was designed by 797 Audio....

I will take photos tomorrow....

[MATTI]

Thanks
Very informative, along the same lines I´ve concluded in general.
Now that I like Chance I won´t comment more here, but I feel
I made a decent deal and knowing what I´m getting even.

Cheers

Matti

[tarnationsauce]

Originally Posted by alanhyatt

if Chance and his tech have told you they designed this unit, then I guess I have to say that is not the truth.

I respect your statement, and I think you believe it to be true. I also think Chance wouldn't blatantly lie. He has no reason to, we don't really care who "designed" a "clone" anyways. More or less they are all the same (as they should be). Also the chances of getting caught lying and having a massive GB crumble are too great.
A possible scenario would be that chance sent 797 his schematics. Then their engineers saw they were basically Neve clones and decided to cut a lot of work by recycling the 73/81/84 they already had the complete blueprints and prototype for. (that is all speculation)

Originally Posted by alanhyatt

797 Audio makes the SSL Buss compressor clone for CL, and they, 797 Audio have built an LA2A. They copied an old schematic and built it. I have seen it. Again it is very low cost. Maybe this is what Chance will announce, but who knows. Once again, this was not designed by Chance, it was designed by 797 Audio....

I will take photos tomorrow....

I am excited to see the photos. I'm interested how they would implement an LA2A.
Bonus points for any schematics you can get! :D Especially of the 73/81/84.

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by alanhyatt

Hey Matti, yep...same units that were at Musikmesse. In fact John Ma asked me to take them home but I had no room for them...So the ones that were blue in color are the very same ones you guys are buying.

I will take the photos tomorrow and get them up as soon as I can. Again, for $160.00 each to buy and a few hundred in upgrades, the unit would not be bad, but it uses the same transformers as ......eon uses. Trust me... I have seen this unit inside out and our designers have helped them fix some EQ issues they could not fix.

We just passed on them for many reasons

Well if they're anywhere near that quality for the price we're paying - I think I'll be happy at least

[Pohaku]

Originally Posted by tarnationsauce

I respect your statement, and I think you believe it to be true. I also think Chance wouldn't blatantly lie. He has no reason to, we don't really care who "designed" a "clone" anyways. More or less they are all the same (as they should be). Also the chances of getting caught lying and having a massive GB crumble are too great.
A possible scenario would be that chance sent 797 his schematics. Then their engineers saw they were basically Neve clones and decided to cut a lot of work by recycling the 73/81/84 they already had the complete blueprints and prototype for. (that is all speculation)



I am excited to see the photos. I'm interested how they would implement an LA2A.
Bonus points for any schematics you can get! :D Especially of the 73/81/84.

I think your speculation is probably on the money. No manufacturer is going to implement a design from scratch for $200 a copy for the relatively small number of units we are buying. I too expect 797 had the base unit already around and may have simply tweaked it per Chance's specs. There will probably be a number of variations on this unit that show up under different labels once this all gets rolling.

In any event, for the price, it is still a great deal. The provenance really doesn't matter.

[gareth.h.rees]

To quote Chance from the homerecording.com/bbs boards:

Perhaps I can clear up some of the confusion. These are not the same exact units that are on display. Our pieces have just begun the manufacturing process and have differences in the off the shelf pieces. There was supposed to be a confidential agreement with the manufacturer about these changes.

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by tarnationsauce

A possible scenario would be that chance sent 797 his schematics. Then their engineers saw they were basically Neve clones and decided to cut a lot of work by recycling the 73/81/84 they already had the complete blueprints and prototype for. (that is all speculation)

Sorry to say, this is not the case. That scenario is just not the case....See this unit has been built for almost 10 months now. Long before Chance even called John MA.

I have the schematics and will post them along with the e-mails from John Ma if I need to. Let Chance post his design schematic and see if they are different from the ones I have. I hate to call this, but if Chance designed anything on this unit, then he should call me out and show me the proof....I am happy to eat crow!

I repeat, in the end, this unit should be a good deal for many of you. This is not what I have an issue with. My issue is do not take credit for a color and name change when the unit was designed by someone else. Just tell the truth....

[gareth.h.rees]

Alan, just out of curiosity.

Are these at all similar to the Chameleon 1073 clones?

[Edit:] Also, you appear to be talking about just one unit. This group buy includes 3 different units. I'd imagine that these are simply slightly different EQ boards built on a "base" design?

Cheers

[gareth.h.rees]

Oh, and the guys over at Prodigy Pro would definitely love the schematics! Pictures would be good too.

Prodigy Professional :: View topic - [ACMP investiupgradifications] All things PREAMP


[Edit:] Any more info/pics/schematics on the LA2A clone would be good fun as well! I'm sure someone will be selling it soon, even if its not Chance.

Cheers
Gareth

[Chance]

WOW
I never said "I designed these pieces" I also will not argue about all this on a public forum. My only intentions are to get a quality piece of gear to everyone at a great price. I only ask that everyone respect my wishes.

[CrankyRayHanky]

Originally Posted by Chance

WOW
I never said "I designed these pieces" I also will not argue about all this on a public forum. My only intentions are to get a quality piece of gear to everyone at a great price. I only ask that everyone respect my wishes.

This is what I thought I all along.

I'm suspicious about the motivation of these anti-Chance posts; unjustified and insulting considering the amount of time and energy he's putting in

[gareth.h.rees]

Originally Posted by CrankyRayHanky

This is what I thought I all along.

I'm suspicious about the motivation of these anti-Chance posts; unjustified and insulting considering the amount of time and energy he's putting in

Indeed. I don't really care who designed them since at the end of the day they'l probably be a good buy. However you look at it Chance has put a load of effort in to get us some gear at the lowest possible price.

However, it would be interesting to hear from Alan with pictures and schematics and that sort of thing, since perhaps he could give us more information than Chance has been able to (which I'm pretty sure he would have if he had said he designed the pre's himself).

Judging by the reception of the mics from the last buy, we should end up pretty happy with these units, especially with some mods, as Marik proved with a 6802 microphone over on the homerecording boads.

Lets just all be friends and have a drool over the pictures of the type of thing we're buying I'd hate for this group buy to be compromised over some misinterpretations of words!