How to feed balanced outputs from console aux sends to unbalanced line level effects

Jake Holland · 16th March 2008

I have a unit in my outboard rack (Fractal Audio Axe-fx Ultra) that has 1/4" stereo unbalanced TS line inputs on the back.

My console aux sends are TRS balanced.

I use a TRS patchbay so my console aux send outputs are patched to a bay and all my outboard effects are patched to another TRS bay and I make connections between the two bays to connect my gear to the board.

What gear, unit or cable modification do I need to perfom to hook this unit's inputs into the balanced TRS patchbay so I can connect the TRS balanced sends from the console to it's inputs?

Is there a cost effective way to do this without losing any sound quality?

Thanks so much for wisdom in this area.

drBill · 16th March 2008

Jake - you can either tie the cold (ring) to the sleeve (along with the ground shield) of the input plug for the FX unit, (possible ground loop though), or, you can tie the cold (ring) to the sleeve and lift the ground. (Prefered due to no ground connecting both units). Cheap and easy. thumbsup

PS - I'd probably change out the TRS plug to a TS plug as they sometimes work better depending on the female jack in the unit. Again, hot goes to tip, cold goes to the sleeve and ground is PREFERABLY lifted at the input plug of the FX device. As with all studio installations and grounding issues, any rules that don't work can be thrown out the window and experimentation begins. There's no need to buy any balancing boxes or that type of gear unless you have a very, very difficult problem to solve.

Cheers,

bp

Jake Holland · 19th March 2008

I'd like a second or third opinion on this

aussie_techie · 19th March 2008

just use a TS cable. there is no mystery here.

what console do you have? few if any low end consoles have actively balanced aux outputs as standard anyway.

drBill · 20th March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Holland

I'd like a second or third opinion on this

It's not rocket science. It's the way studios have been doing it for decades.

Salty James · 9th January 2011

I think I want to second guess your correct (and universally applied) answer or can I just get a second opinion on your free assistance... ugh!!! people!

Honestly, though, I wish I had never been this thick before...

Finally dealt with some strange grounding issues and am happy to be back to work!

Eric Pederson · 10th January 2011

I think theres more than one way of doing it because theres more than one way of lifting grounds etc.

Using a TS to TS cable effectively "lifts" the hot/cold (depending on how wired) of the TRS unit???

since the ground jack on the balanced unit has nothing to connect to?

drBill · 10th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Pederson

I think theres more than one way of doing it because theres more than one way of lifting grounds etc.

Using a TS to TS cable effectively "lifts" the hot/cold (depending on how wired) of the TRS unit???

since the ground jack on the balanced unit has nothing to connect to?

Using a TS to TS does not "lift" the hot. Hot is always tip and always connected if you plug the plug all the way in. It will (under normal jack conditions) tie the cold to the shield (ground). The ground jack on the balanced unit is ALWAYS touching the plug.

The only way to lift the ground is to disconnect the wire. You won't get there by using a TS plug.

Eric Pederson · 10th January 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by drBill

Using a TS to TS does not "lift" the hot. Hot is always tip and always connected if you plug the plug all the way in. It will (under normal jack conditions) tie the cold to the shield (ground). The ground jack on the balanced unit is ALWAYS touching the plug.

The only way to lift the ground is to disconnect the wire. You won't get there by using a TS plug.

Thank you for clearing that up for me

Is the reversed phase signal (of a balanced TRS cable) on the Tip or the Ring usually?? (if Tip is hot)

Beefy · 10th January 2011

Most consules should have inserts where you would just plug an instert cable (trs) into the insert of the console and the two ts ends into the fx unit.
If not I would listen to Dr .Bill he's not an idiot he basically just described a ts to trs cable to you. You might want to run that through your aux returns not line ins. You would be running your tape recorder, Daw outs, hd recorder outs into line ins or pre amps into your line ins if your recording though your console. It might help if you would tell us just where the console is in your recording chain.

16th March 2008	#1
Jake Holland Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 329 Thread Starter	How to feed balanced outputs from console aux sends to unbalanced line level effects I have a unit in my outboard rack (Fractal Audio Axe-fx Ultra) that has 1/4" stereo unbalanced TS line inputs on the back. My console aux sends are TRS balanced. I use a TRS patchbay so my console aux send outputs are patched to a bay and all my outboard effects are patched to another TRS bay and I make connections between the two bays to connect my gear to the board. What gear, unit or cable modification do I need to perfom to hook this unit's inputs into the balanced TRS patchbay so I can connect the TRS balanced sends from the console to it's inputs? Is there a cost effective way to do this without losing any sound quality? Thanks so much for wisdom in this area.

16th March 2008	#2
drBill Gear Guru Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal Posts: 11,013	Jake - you can either tie the cold (ring) to the sleeve (along with the ground shield) of the input plug for the FX unit, (possible ground loop though), or, you can tie the cold (ring) to the sleeve and lift the ground. (Prefered due to no ground connecting both units). Cheap and easy. thumbsup PS - I'd probably change out the TRS plug to a TS plug as they sometimes work better depending on the female jack in the unit. Again, hot goes to tip, cold goes to the sleeve and ground is PREFERABLY lifted at the input plug of the FX device. As with all studio installations and grounding issues, any rules that don't work can be thrown out the window and experimentation begins. There's no need to buy any balancing boxes or that type of gear unless you have a very, very difficult problem to solve. Cheers, bp __________________ Mindseye http://www.mindseyeprod.com IMDB Composer - Orchestrator Scoring & Mix Engineer - Music Editor

10th January 2011	#7
Eric Pederson Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 783	I think theres more than one way of doing it because theres more than one way of lifting grounds etc. Using a TS to TS cable effectively "lifts" the hot/cold (depending on how wired) of the TRS unit??? since the ground jack on the balanced unit has nothing to connect to? __________________ Deposit your Low End Mixes for review here; Heres Mine Call the Recording Police! NOW!!!

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19th March 2008	#3
Jake Holland Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 329 Thread Starter	I'd like a second or third opinion on this

19th March 2008	#4
aussie_techie Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 2,709	just use a TS cable. there is no mystery here. what console do you have? few if any low end consoles have actively balanced aux outputs as standard anyway.

9th January 2011	#6
Salty James Gear addict Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: alexandria va Posts: 386 3 Reviews written	I think I want to second guess your correct (and universally applied) answer or can I just get a second opinion on your free assistance... ugh!!! people! Honestly, though, I wish I had never been this thick before... Finally dealt with some strange grounding issues and am happy to be back to work!

10th January 2011	#10
Beefy Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: St. Louis, Mo Posts: 691	Most consules should have inserts where you would just plug an instert cable (trs) into the insert of the console and the two ts ends into the fx unit. If not I would listen to Dr .Bill he's not an idiot he basically just described a ts to trs cable to you. You might want to run that through your aux returns not line ins. You would be running your tape recorder, Daw outs, hd recorder outs into line ins or pre amps into your line ins if your recording though your console. It might help if you would tell us just where the console is in your recording chain.