Studio Drums?

[PT User]

.Hello all,

Is it possible to equip the studio with a decent complete drum set for around $1,000.00. I would like to put a set in our booth and leave them there, I dont like going thru tear downs. Also the clients are bringing drums that are not the best sounding or setup for playing live gigs. Im not a drummer, so Im coming here for advice.


Thanks
Eddie

I have been looking at american musical supply but not sure if anything they have is studio quality since I know very little about drums.

[biggator6]

There was a thread on this a few weeks back.. but i'll repeat myself.

For $1000 - do not look at new drums. Especially if that $1000 also includes cymbals (which can easily run more than drums). Pick up some good used drums.. Ludwigs, Slingerlands, Premiers.. then troll around the drum forums and put together a good cymbal setup bit by bit. You'll save a TON doing it that way.

Go here:
DrumForum.org • Index page
those guys will help you with your quest happily.

[PT User]

Originally Posted by biggator6

There was a thread on this a few weeks back.. but i'll repeat myself.

For $1000 - do not look at new drums. Especially if that $1000 also includes cymbals (which can easily run more than drums). Pick up some good used drums.. Ludwigs, Slingerlands, Premiers.. then troll around the drum forums and put together a good cymbal setup bit by bit. You'll save a TON doing it that way.

Go here:
DrumForum.org • Index page
those guys will help you with your quest happily.

Thanks appreciate the info

[CAMGRec]

Keep an eye on Craigslist for your area (and whatever areas you're willing to drive to):
cincinnati, OH musical instruments classifieds - craigslist

[biggator6]

as an addendum to the above recommendation for craigslist...

use a tool to create an aggregated RSS feed for all the surrounding cities for Craigslist, then filter it for words like 'ludwig, rogers, premier, slingerland..'

I did something with Yahoo Pipes that works great.

[RedWallStudio]

Yeah, Craigslist is the place to look. I found my entire kit on CL: Mid 70's Ludwig gold sparkle, DW hardware & Zildjian K Series Cymbals (totally sweet, although the K Series Ride is a bit too dark). I think my kit was right around a grand, but it took about two months of patience to find the right pieces at the right price. It can be done though. The one thing not included in my 1000 spent was on a decent snare. You can ask drummers to bring their own snare, but you will eventually want to get one of your own.

[ryanojohn]

I actually just picked up a 91' DW 4 pc kit, with a Mushashi Snare, Sabian AAX 20" crash, Paise Sig 12" Splash and K Cust 13" hats for $700

thhaaaank you craigslist...

It'll still come out to more than 1000 after hardware and the rest of the cymbals though...

[sethmeister]

Go used on craigslist or eBay my man.

I picked up a Yamaha Birch Custom Absolute for $799, new beat hats for 100 bucks, a K med thin crash for 150 and a 60's 20" ride for 120.

You can generally find 70's ludwig and slingerland kits around 500. Saw a 72 Rogers kit go for 520 recently.

Under / around 1k you REALLY want a used kit. New kits in that price range are mediocre in my opinion.

Happy hunting!

[biggator6]

as for a kit without a snare... spend 100 and get an Acrolite. You'll end up with a few snares - but you'll end up using that one the most.
"-)

[newfuturevintage]

craigslist, absolutely.

Picked up an '80s yamaha set (oddly enough made in England!): 5 pieces, all hardware (some sucked and needed replacing), a 2nd chrome snare, 2 sets hats (one awful, one pretty nice new beat), a great ride, a crappy splash: $400. After new heads, replacement hardware, upgrading some cymbals, it's been a fantastic kit. Oh yeah, it also came with Rototoms!

[warhead]

Eddie, I would check out some of the lower line SONOR kits used. I don't think I've ever heard a SONOR tom that I didn't like, no matter the price. The one place you do not want to skimp is on any of the cymbals you buy. Make sure you stay away from those B8 packs or whatever that crap is. I find Zildjian A series stuff to just have "that sound" and are extremely all purpose. Careful with used cymbals, inspect them first and check for cracks (even hairline) around the bell and the edges.

Cheap cymbals can just flat out ruin a record, you can't EQ that pie pan sound out.

War

[biggator6]

yamaha set (oddly enough made in England!)

Those were made at the Premier factory.. they're basically Premiers. Yamaha owned Premier for a while in the 90s.. they wanted Premier's chrome plating expertise. That era produced the APK/XPK/Genista/Signia.. not a bad time for them.

[acdctom92]

I made the thread a few weeks back looking for a house kit for my studio as well, and then I realized, (with the help of biggator) that I have an old Slingerland, which can't be touched by the drums I was looking for in the 700$ price range. Well I know you don't have a slingerland or anything, but seriously, I tuned mine up, replaced some heads, and I am sooo thankful I had'nt spent 750$ on a Sonor Force 2007 Shell Pack(Which by the way is a pretty sexual kit!). Go for an Oldie, they sound sweeet!

[Yorke]

I would agree with keeping an eye on Craig's List, I found a custom made kit on Craig's list for $800.00. Now that was the just the drums, but they were made with Keller shells, 6 ply shells in the exact sizes I had been looking at. The finish had been bleached out a bit by the sun because they had it sitting next to a window.

But the drums sound just awesome, sustain and resonance for days, so I could care less about the finish.

If you do some research, you could also go the route of making your own drumset, if you do a search I think you will find that everything under the sun for making drums is widely available on the internet.

You can buy the shells, use either a waterbased or Alcohol based die on them, put a clear coat, and add all the hardware. You can pick and choose the hardware you want, and definitely get the drum sizes you want, with the added option of expanding the kit as you go.

I built a snare drum that I have been very happy with, I bought the shell for $45.00 on ebay, stained it myself and drilled the holes for all the hardware, but you can buy the shells pre-drilled for whatever hardware your going to use.

Anyway, good luck

[CAMGRec]

I'm such a CL junkie that I actually have checked the Cinci listings over the past couple of days

There was a potentially nice looking Yamaha 80's kit back on March 7th:
Yamaha 80's Vintage Tour Custom Drums

[PT User]

Thanks for all replies, Yeah Im sure craigslist is the way to go for someone who knows what to look for. Myself not being a drummer, and not knowing much about drums, I couldnt tell the difference from one kit to the next when it comes to buying a studio quality kit.

The yamaha kit does look sweet but again how will it sound? What type of cymbals should I look for? When we do record a band which isnt very often, maybe once a month it seems the cymbals are way too splashy and bright.

This is why I would like to have a house kit mic'd up and leave everything in place and make minor adjustments based on the drummer.

I hope this makes sense.

[PT User]

What about this kit, deal or no deal?


1976 Rogers 5 piece drum kit...trade??...or sell??

[Grumblefoot]

Rogers can be risky because of the fact that the name has changed hands about a billion times and that breeds quality control issues. The early Rogers kits were made in the USA up until about '82 I think. I would check them out see how they sound. If you can get some serial #'s you can probably do a web search to find out the age anything after '82 when the line was discontinued and the resurected might be worth it.

[Yorke]

Here is a website explaining the many different aspects of drums, drums are a complicated beast to get a handle on.

Shell material, thickness ( no. of plies), bearing edge, drum heads, all determine how a drum will sound; after 20 years of playing and trial by error. I have finally found what works for me, I have followed the idea that smaller drums almost always record better than bigger drums, but thats just my idea.

Drum Tuning Bible

[CAMGRec]

One thing I will say when it comes to older/cheaper drums - and of course, YMMV...I have an old vibey Rogers kit and I've had old Ludwig kits and other random brands both vintage and new. I also recently scored a very nice DW kit.

I can get both kits to sound really good - however, after working with the DW kit, I've noticed that it tunes up easier and tends to stay in tune better/longer then the old vibey Rogers kit.

It's kind of like having an older/cheaper guitar where the tuning keys don't hold all that well and you're constantly having to tune it up.

As for that $450 Rogers kit, go check it out. If it's in decent shape and sounds good, that's not a bad price.

[RedWallStudio]

I was not a drum person before I got my kit, had to learn A LOT.

The issue with the older kits will always be hardware. My original vintage ludwig tom mounts absolutely sucked (poor design, they come loose really easy), so I had to find a modern mount that would fit into my kick drum and hold the toms. By the time I was done, it ended up being a frankenstein mix of Tama and Pearl (I have to admit that the drum guy at the Sam Ash here in Chicago was a huge help). I did not want to ruin the shells, so there was quite a bit of mixing and matching of hardware (there are no real standards with drums...gd).

As far as cymbals go, pay the money and get the Zildjian K's. They are a bit darker, and probably don't translate well live. But they are much easier to control in a recording environment (one exception is that I feel the K ride is a bit too dark for me).

If you can find DW hardware on the cheap (its out there, just be patient) get DW. IMHO its built to last and the mounts are all solid. You use cheap drum hardware, you will feel just like you do when you use a cheap mic stand.... wondering if it tipped over or collapsed.

As far as drum thrones go, get a RocNSoc and be done.thumbsup

[RedWallStudio]

p.s. Some drummers and engineers will argue that having the toms mounted to the kick is not a great idea. On top of getting sypathetic vibration of the toms when the kick is hit, it makes for an assembly that always requireds tightening. Having had my toms on a mount that IS attached to my kick for almost 6 months now, yeah... I can attest that it is a pain in the ass sometimes and I'll probably switch to a free standing tom mount and isolate the kick.

[biggator6]

Good recommendations from Redwall above - let me add a few.

He's right about Zildjian K's being good for recording - get those, or the equivalent from another manufacturer (Sabian HH is their equivalent, not sure about some of the others)..

As for mounting toms off the kick - you can always get some type of RIMS mount which will work, and not have to modify the drums in any way.

DW does make good hardware. Another alternative is the new Pearl stuff.. I think it's the B900 series - VERY solid and fairly inexpensive.

Ditto on a good throne - Roc n' Soc or similar.

[Grumblefoot]

The Pearl 900 series is aces....

[CAMGRec]

IMO, studio drums are allowed to be complete and utter Frankensteins as long as they sound good and there's no rattling. Brands, sizes, colors, whatever.

As for drum thrones, I think this is the best throne I've ever used:
Buy Pork Pie Round Drum Throne online at Musician's Friend



You can order them in a variety of colors:
Pork Pie Percussion: Thrones

Really super comfortable thrones that provide great support over long periods of time - perfect for when you have to spend hours tracking drums with a large drummer - no butt fatigue

[RedWallStudio]

Originally Posted by CAMGRec

IMO, studio drums are allowed to be complete and utter Frankensteins as long as they sound good and there's no rattling. Brands, sizes, colors, whatever.

As for drum thrones, I think this is the best throne I've ever used:
Buy Pork Pie Round Drum Throne online at Musician's Friend

Attachment 52719

You can order them in a variety of colors:
Pork Pie Percussion: Thrones

Really super comfortable thrones that provide great support over long periods of time - perfect for when you have to spend hours tracking drums with a large drummer - no butt fatigue

Total agreement with the "frankenstein" comment. I just did not want to ruin my pristine gold sparkle ludwig toms by drilling new holes for the tom mounts. Fortunately, the pearl tom holders fit ludwig perfectly. I did want to keep all the original ludwig hardware (even though the build quality in the 70s was shitte), just for the resale value.

BTW - The DW Pacifica line of hardware is no slouch, its decent quality and economical at the same time.

[PT User]

Man you guys, Thanks for all the replies! I really appreciate all the helpful posts. I have been searching all the local craigslist ads every few hrs and Im sure Im going to come up with a decent kit with all the info you great people have provided.

I will keep you posted with what Im looking at as time goes on. You guys rock!

thanks again
Eddie

[lowfreq33]

I've heard $3k kits that sounded like garbage, and $500 Pearl Exports that sounded great. The key is having them tuned properly and having good heads. Sure, a great kit will have an edge over a crappy one, but a good drum tech can make any kit sound good. I've got mine on speed dial.