Which First: Good Mic or Good Pre

[pfender]

Howdy there,

I've been doing research on this forum and others for a few months and I'm ready to buy some stuff. I want to get an LDC for vocals and acoustic guitar, and a good pre to go with it. Does it make sense to spend the money on a good pre (Great River, 512c, P-1, etc.) and then rent mics to choose the one that works best for me? As far as matching the voice with equipment, does the mic or the pre impart the biggest change?Thanks for the help,

Pfender

[tINY]

Start buying mics. Rent some first if it makes you feel better. You'll always find uses for decent mics.

Unless you have really bad pres now (like an early 80's Peavy rack-mount mixer), I wouldn't worry about them yet.



-tINY

[walth]

Both are important. i'd personally get mic pres because i do a lot of keyboard work and a mic pre/di fits my needs. since you're recording live guitar a good mic would be the thing to buy. IMHO.

I was in the studio and used a AT 4050 to record guitar and vocals. preferred it over a neumann M147 and AKG Solid Tube. We had a SOny C-800G but it was damaged. I've been using an AKG C414BULS also in place of the sony. I'd get the A Designs P1 as a pre. great on guitar and vocals. the api is nice too. i like the bottom end on the p1.

Good Luck.

[Shadow_7]

Get the mic first. You wont know if your pre sucks if you don't have a mic that you know doesn't suck. On the flip side, a bad mic on a great pre is still gonna sound bad.

[AnAverageJoe]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

Get the mic first. You wont know if your pre sucks if you don't have a mic that you know doesn't suck. On the flip side, a bad mic on a great pre is still gonna sound bad.

+1

[Chrisc_o]

Agreed.

+1

[Megastorm2k]

I also agree.

+ 1

[layez]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

Get the mic first. You wont know if your pre sucks if you don't have a mic that you know doesn't suck. On the flip side, a bad mic on a great pre is still gonna sound bad.

while i sort of agree, i never really heard a sm57 until i plugged it into a good mic pre. truly opened up like a whole new mic.

[Lerxst]

Originally Posted by layez

while i sort of agree, i never really heard a sm57 until i plugged it into a good mic pre. truly opened up like a whole new mic.

I agree with you. It's kinda the chicken or egg deal. I've had some fairly crappy mics that sounded usable with a great pre, and on the flip side some decent mics that I really didn't know how good they sounded until I got a great pre.

One thing for sure if you get a good mic, you'll want a good pre and vice versa. What am I trying to say? I have no idea... No, really get both.

If you get a good/great pre now like the GR or API, you really can't go wrong with either of them. They're tried and true standards IMO. Then you can rent mics to see what will work best with the source you're recording. Pre's can be returned - mics usually cannot.


~Lerxst

[Lynn Fuston]

Mic.

[AnAverageJoe]

Originally Posted by layez

while i sort of agree, i never really heard a sm57 until i plugged it into a good mic pre. truly opened up like a whole new mic.

The SM57 is not a Bad Mic. I know people who use that mic going to a bluetube and get pretty good results for what they are using

[James Meeker]

I'm fussier about the preamp myself. Gimme good preamps and I'm happy.... just as long as you're not giving me bottom of the barrel mics like the Samsons.

[layez]

Originally Posted by AnAverageJoe

The SM57 is not a Bad Mic. I know people who use that mic going to a bluetube and get pretty good results for what they are using

I never thought it was a bad mic before, but I didnt quite understand the hype concerning that mic, i even thought it might be a little over rated for studio use. When I plugged it into a great pre i felt like the 57 was a steal for how nice it sounds. Actually I have come to really love, as opposed to just liking, all of the dynamic mics that i have since upgrading preamps.

[evangelista]

preamp, no doubt about it.

I'll take an sm57 into a Neve 1272 over a U47 into an mbox any day of the week.

[yrlk]

Mic's the better thing to go for - agree. Also... I wouldn't get a GR if you're chiefly going for a vocal pre, I'd much prefer the 512c or a P-1 vs. a GR. Thing about 512c is that I don't think they can ever sound it.

[aussie_techie]

a mic is going to make the most difference, however you will have to try a few before you find the right one for you. you may be best to get the best mic for your voice that you can straight off or you may be better off to get a good pre and rent mics so you can have more time with them and try them properly. a big part of the decision will be what is available in your area and what you can try before you buy.

[thestranger]

am i in the minority here? i would TOTALLY say pres. maybe that's because i'm a digi 002 guy, and the pres on it are useless... haha.

get yourself an sm57 for like 75 bucks, and spend some real money on pres. API, Vintech, maybe Avalon, even some focusrite pres.

until you get some decent pres, you'll never fully be able to evaluate different mics. (although i guess you could say the same vice/versa)

i guess the real answer is..... GET BOTH!

[JayT]

Yes, but we are not alone.
Definitly pre.

I have some cheap made-in-china-copy-of-the-original mics that do not sound really great (good for their price).

Recently i bought a Millennia STT-1 Channel and i'm absolutly surprised, what it sounds like. And right, even a sm57/58 sounds great over that.

I also use it sometimes to mix (eq, comp) a signal. Great.

[nosebleedaudio]

Pre amp...

[kozsak]

Preamp. A good pre will make your "lowly" 57 sound really, really good. Of course, get both if you can. If you're really trying to hear what a mic is capable of, use a good pre. It took me 20 years to realize this.

[YZ!]

No doubt: get a good preamp first.

A good _clean_ preamp, not a "color" one.

It will make any mic sound better (than a crappy pre) and help you choose which mics to buy in the future.

But start with a _clean_ pre, not API, Neve, tube this, transformer that.

OTOH, with a lesser preamp, you are missing quite a bit of your investment in mics; with a "color" preamp you are imparting the same sonic flavor to all your acoustic tracks, sort of taking pictures with a filter in front of the lens.

[drmmrboy]

Microphone.
I'd start there & work myself down. mic->pre->converter..

It's a vicious circle..

[kozsak]

tINY makes a great point above. Before you buy anything, rent or borrow some pieces you are interested in.

It kinda depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Singer/songwriter? Maybe you need 1 or 2 good mics and a good pre.

[BudgetMC]

Are you recording yourself or somebody else? If it's somebody else, buy a nice mic, since they'll see it and be impressed. Your average Low End studio client is more impressed by a cool mic than a mystery box that does stuff they don't understand.

If you're recording yourself, and if you have the time, rent some stuff and see which combo works best for you.

[kafka]

I wouldn't waste any money renting anything at this point. Without experience the better equipment probably won't help your recordings much, and you'll just be out the money.

The question actually poses false alternatives. As has been said, your first mics should be a pair of SM57's. They just don't get any cheaper than that. After that, there are a ton of really nice mics in the < $300 range to consider. So, I'd say, get some SM57's and maybe an LDC, and then get a good preamp that you can trust, and go to town. The more experience you get with the equipment you have, the more your instincts will guide you.

[insomnio]

Well, today most interfaces have pretty decent pres, like RME and MOTU units. But the chain doesn't begin in the middle. It begin with your ears.
Put your money in treating your room (your ears) / get a good sounding mic (there are nice deals out there) / a clean enough pre.
And, for God's sake, take time in mic placement! No gear magic there, just hard work.

[Tom Hakala]

Originally Posted by insomnio

But the chain doesn't begin in the middle. It begin with your ears.
Put your money in treating your room (your ears) / get a good sounding mic (there are nice deals out there) / a clean enough pre.
And, for God's sake, take time in mic placement! No gear magic there, just hard work.

indeed!

I think it's plain stupid to first invest in preamps if you are miking things. You have to know how mike things first: which mic to use and how to place that mic. In a good room, with a right mic on the sweet spot you can make miracles. You really don't need high end preamps for that. And the source...

..the chain just doesn't begin in the middle...

[Lynn Fuston]

If you're trying to figure out which has the greater impact on the sounds you're recording, might I suggest trying out a few first? Here's an easy way to hear 49 mics on the same source (3D Mic CD) or 33 different preamps (3D Pre CD) with the same mic in front.

osCommerce

You can even download the files and listen now. (Just click the D2 link in my sig below.) You'll learn a lot very quickly. Like whether or not you can even hear the difference between a $4000 preamp and a Mackie. That seems like it would help you decide.

[kozsak]

I once went into a budget studio in Boston with my band back in the 80's. It was a simple Mackie/ADAT type place. The engineer recorded all tracks live. He was able to get a great overall mix with the lead singer right in the live room with the band. He was using an SM58 on lead vocals. 8 Tracks total. There were some packing blankets set up around the singer, I recall.

This was proof to me that you can get good and usable sounds with basic gear.

Years later I was talking to him about the session and praised his work. He laughed and told me he tracked the vocals through an outboard Neve preamp/EQ unit and not the Mackie.

However, the vocals sound more muscular and just bigger than the rest of the tracks. He said "I would never track lead vocals with the Mackie!".

Would the mix have worked with just the Mackie? Sure!
Would it have been better with all instruments tracked through Neve preamps? Probably yes.

[AnAverageJoe]

Originally Posted by layez

I never thought it was a bad mic before, but I didnt quite understand the hype concerning that mic, i even thought it might be a little over rated for studio use. When I plugged it into a great pre i felt like the 57 was a steal for how nice it sounds. Actually I have come to really love, as opposed to just liking, all of the dynamic mics that i have since upgrading preamps.

Well I think the reason why people like it is because it's a true work horse, in the studio or on stage. Don't get me wrong! Pre amps do make a HUGE impact on the recording. Lie James Meeker said, If you're using mics from Samson, Beringer, or some other cull crap company, then how much of a difference will a high end pre amp deliver to your sound?