Final mix in a small studio, with or without limiters?

Thrashin Vamp · 19th February 2008

Most of the people coming to me are looking to get everything finished by me, no mixed at/ mastered at stuff. I'm wondering what the other people in this situation do when it's time to do the final mix. Do you turn on the limiters and multiband eq's and mix with them on, or try to get a nice clean mix and then bounce it out to stereo and tighten it up?

gainstages · 19th February 2008

first i try to talk them into a proper mastering, even if it is a very basic mastering. however, if i need to do something "down and dirty" where time and money are the primary concerns and the clients are not going to pay for proper mastering, I'll often get the mix most of the way to where it needs to be and then set a little light compression and peak limiting on the master buss, and then make the final tweaks on the mix. I may throw an EQ across the master buss also if it needs some subtle tweaking.

withintheflux · 19th February 2008

I have mixed the last 3 albums I have worked on and have mastered one of them in my own space . This was done despite my apprehensions, due to lack of a budget.

I mixed through Analog Channel and the massey limiter rather than limiting afterward. That way you can mix according to the particular traits that those plugs impart.

On the project I mastered I used Sony plugs and the Massey Limiter. and checked the mixes ELSEWHERE time and time again.

blake

Unclenny · 19th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by gainstages

get the mix most of the way to where it needs to be

I guess that's the one good thing to be said about self mastering.....the mix is still in your hands.

I like to mix into an empty bus......coax as much gain as I can out of the tracks before I send them all through the converters and on to a stereo track...sneak a little more gain there.

Then bring all those stereo tracks together in another session for a kiss of compression and a hint of limiting.........maybe some more gentle EQ as mentioned above.

Careful with multibands and limiters.....that is a lesson I have learned in Bedroom Mastering.

8th_note · 19th February 2008

Quote:

Most of the people coming to me are looking to get everything finished by me, no mixed at/ mastered at stuff.

I'm in the same situation. Most of my clients "release" their CD in one form or another and they don't have the budget to get it separately mastered. I do all the mastering here.

I use Ozone for mastering. It has an excellent limiter plus a multiband compressor, harmonic enhancer, stereo widener, EQ, and mastering reverb. I bounce my mix to stereo and master that. If something isn't right after I've applied the limiter and (sometimes) other effects then I go back to the mix and fix it there. I've done over 300 songs now with Ozone and I'm getting pretty familiar with it. It's a significant learning curve, however, so be prepared to spend some time learning what it can do. One of the best lessons on mastering is the Ozone Mastering Guide available for free on their web site.

I get the mix sounding absolutely as good as I can before I begin mastering. I don't intentionally leave any problems to get "fixed" in the mastering phase. If I've done my mixing job correctly I am strictly using the mastering phase to add more volume and excitement to the stereo mix.

A LaMere · 20th February 2008

On the low end tip...

Yes, when the mix isn't going to be mastered.... I use a limiter and maybe a bit of eq on the master to get the loudness up to an acceptable level... Not "crushed" necassarily i guess.. but just to get the volume up to acceptable...

Usually it's just a limiter... and sometimes, it sounds better than the cheaper mastering jobs I've heard to be honest....

Relicrecordings · 20th February 2008

I was reading an article on compression (@ the mastering level) the other day and one way they described besides no compression at all (compression including a fixed +10:1 ratio...being a limiter...) was to do master buss compression during the mix. And I do have to admit...while doing just mixing first can seem to produce punchier results when I go to master- sometimes if Im mixing in front of the client it can sound downright ugly unless Im mastering while I mix.

Its food for thought, I have no idea what your setup is like, but I know a few veteran engineers who tend to do the same thing.

666666 · 20th February 2008

Be careful, because too much processing along the way starts adding up. Sometimes you're better off just NOT adding more stuff than is really necessary. If there is even a small chance the project may get mastered properly down the road, you should not compress / limit the program. OR, make two versions... a "compressed" version for the client to listen to in the meantime, and a "non-processed" version for the day it is to be properly mastered.

Way earlier on in my "career", one big mistake I made once was to add processing at almost every stage on an important project. Small amounts mind you, but it still led to a goofy over-processed sound in the end. It DOES add up... creeps up slowly and silently until the end... then you're like, "what the heck happened???!!!"

I had tracked though compressors and eqs, very mild, but the units still imparted a slight color and performed "measurable" processing. Then all the individual tracks were "processed" again during the mix (eq/compression)... of course. Then the mix buss went through an eq and compressor during the mix. Then later it was decided that the project needed more help and got "mastered" through yet more processing. And then, that result got "mastered" a SECOND time because one related party wanted it "fine tuned" even more.

The end result... the whole thing wound up having a goofy over-processed sound. It was NOT "over-equalized" or "over-compressed", it was actually tailored pretty well surprisingly, BUT, everything just had a strange somewhat "warped" sound.... a little hard to describe, but... it was far from natural sounding. Just didn't feel good.

Finally, if you eq and compress tracks over and over and over, even if you DO sculpt "properly", you inevitably bend and twist the sound of things... usually for the worst. Audio changes every time you run it through something.

That's why now, I generally do not like to track through any processing at all. I save all processing for the mix stage. Then, I do sometimes add processing at the mix buss, but if and when I do, it's through only extremely transparent boxes with extremely mild processing, just a pinch... and not at all considered "mastering"... but maybe just extremely subtle "sweetening" only... if and when truly "called for" and not otherwise.

Even if you do not plan on mastering now, there's a large chance you'll master down the road... so at the very least, keep one "unprocessed" mix so that a good mastering engineer can take it to a good place later on. Then, for kicks, you can ALSO do your own el-quicko "mastering" job and make a fun temporary "master" so the client can put it in his car stereo that night and be like, "wow man, it's as loud and bright as all the other [crap] on the radio, cool!!!."

19th February 2008	#1
Thrashin Vamp Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upper Michigan Posts: 33 Thread Starter	Final mix in a small studio, with or without limiters? Most of the people coming to me are looking to get everything finished by me, no mixed at/ mastered at stuff. I'm wondering what the other people in this situation do when it's time to do the final mix. Do you turn on the limiters and multiband eq's and mix with them on, or try to get a nice clean mix and then bounce it out to stereo and tighten it up? __________________ ________________________________ http://myspace.com/thrashin_vamp

19th February 2008	#3
withintheflux Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: San Francisco, ca Posts: 230	I have mixed the last 3 albums I have worked on and have mastered one of them in my own space . This was done despite my apprehensions, due to lack of a budget. I mixed through Analog Channel and the massey limiter rather than limiting afterward. That way you can mix according to the particular traits that those plugs impart. On the project I mastered I used Sony plugs and the Massey Limiter. and checked the mixes ELSEWHERE time and time again. blake __________________ www.clumsycongregation.com

20th February 2008	#6
A LaMere Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,143	On the low end tip... Yes, when the mix isn't going to be mastered.... I use a limiter and maybe a bit of eq on the master to get the loudness up to an acceptable level... Not "crushed" necassarily i guess.. but just to get the volume up to acceptable... Usually it's just a limiter... and sometimes, it sounds better than the cheaper mastering jobs I've heard to be honest.... __________________ www.myspace.com/aaronlamere

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19th February 2008	#2
gainstages Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 649	first i try to talk them into a proper mastering, even if it is a very basic mastering. however, if i need to do something "down and dirty" where time and money are the primary concerns and the clients are not going to pay for proper mastering, I'll often get the mix most of the way to where it needs to be and then set a little light compression and peak limiting on the master buss, and then make the final tweaks on the mix. I may throw an EQ across the master buss also if it needs some subtle tweaking.

20th February 2008	#7
Relicrecordings Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 56	I was reading an article on compression (@ the mastering level) the other day and one way they described besides no compression at all (compression including a fixed +10:1 ratio...being a limiter...) was to do master buss compression during the mix. And I do have to admit...while doing just mixing first can seem to produce punchier results when I go to master- sometimes if Im mixing in front of the client it can sound downright ugly unless Im mastering while I mix. Its food for thought, I have no idea what your setup is like, but I know a few veteran engineers who tend to do the same thing.

20th February 2008	#8
666666 Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 2,560	Be careful, because too much processing along the way starts adding up. Sometimes you're better off just NOT adding more stuff than is really necessary. If there is even a small chance the project may get mastered properly down the road, you should not compress / limit the program. OR, make two versions... a "compressed" version for the client to listen to in the meantime, and a "non-processed" version for the day it is to be properly mastered. Way earlier on in my "career", one big mistake I made once was to add processing at almost every stage on an important project. Small amounts mind you, but it still led to a goofy over-processed sound in the end. It DOES add up... creeps up slowly and silently until the end... then you're like, "what the heck happened???!!!" I had tracked though compressors and eqs, very mild, but the units still imparted a slight color and performed "measurable" processing. Then all the individual tracks were "processed" again during the mix (eq/compression)... of course. Then the mix buss went through an eq and compressor during the mix. Then later it was decided that the project needed more help and got "mastered" through yet more processing. And then, that result got "mastered" a SECOND time because one related party wanted it "fine tuned" even more. The end result... the whole thing wound up having a goofy over-processed sound. It was NOT "over-equalized" or "over-compressed", it was actually tailored pretty well surprisingly, BUT, everything just had a strange somewhat "warped" sound.... a little hard to describe, but... it was far from natural sounding. Just didn't feel good. Finally, if you eq and compress tracks over and over and over, even if you DO sculpt "properly", you inevitably bend and twist the sound of things... usually for the worst. Audio changes every time you run it through something. That's why now, I generally do not like to track through any processing at all. I save all processing for the mix stage. Then, I do sometimes add processing at the mix buss, but if and when I do, it's through only extremely transparent boxes with extremely mild processing, just a pinch... and not at all considered "mastering"... but maybe just extremely subtle "sweetening" only... if and when truly "called for" and not otherwise. Even if you do not plan on mastering now, there's a large chance you'll master down the road... so at the very least, keep one "unprocessed" mix so that a good mastering engineer can take it to a good place later on. Then, for kicks, you can ALSO do your own el-quicko "mastering" job and make a fun temporary "master" so the client can put it in his car stereo that night and be like, "wow man, it's as loud and bright as all the other [crap] on the radio, cool!!!."