Decent interface for a poor college student?

[drummer1549]

I currently have the MBox Mini and Im a little dissapointed in it. I want to upgrade, but I'm on a pretty tight budget. I'll be recording drums as well as guitar and vocals, so im wanting something with around 8 inputs. Ive been looking at the presonus fp10, as its on sale at musicians friends for 400 bux. I'd like to stay in the 400 dollar range, 500 if i have to, for the interface, but from what ive seen, almost everything in that price range has 2 inputs. Is the presonus the only thing im gonna find in that price range with enough inputs to suite my needs? Ive heard good things about it, but i'd like to have something else to compare it to. Is there a different route i can go besides one firewire interface and still stay in my price range? I'd appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

[jefferson]

I've got an alesis io 26 that I like alright. They're $400, with 8 xlr inputs. When I was looking for an interface it was between the alesis and some presonus one for $500 i think.

[drummer1549]

thanks for the input. I havent heard much about the alesis. Do you know how the pre-amps compare to other brands, such as the presonus? Also, have you had any problems with it?

[jefferson]

The limited number of threads that I've read on here mostly say that the alesis pres blow away the presonus pres. I've never used a presonus, so I can't make a direct comparison. I had problems with the alesis when we were trying to run it with a computer that was barely under the minimum requirements, but we could get it to worked most of the time. Running it on a new imac now and it works fine. I think there were some driver issues right when it was released and the old drivers didn't work under OS X Leopard, but they fixed that about a month ago. I've been doing a lot of work with it lately and no problems have come up with the latest drivers.

[iceberg]

what about the Echo AudioFire8?
Its about $500.00 but the converters are very good.
I havent used this unit but it is getting great reviews.

Echo Digital Audio Corporation

Buy Echo AudioFire8 8 Channel FireWire Audio Interface at Musician's Friend

Echo also has the AudioFire4 that has 4 inputs and is less expensive.
Do you need 8 pre's? sorry if ya do. these only have 2 each.

[drummer1549]

i did see the echo, but since i will be recording a lot of drums, id like to have 8 mic inputs instead of the two that the echo has. only the two xlr inputs have preamps right?

im leaning toward the presonus fp10 just because ive heard a lot of good things about it, although the alesis does look nice also.

does anyone else have any other suggestions?

[Shadow_7]

From what I've heard 3rd hand. Presonus and Alesis are bottom barrell. Although functional. The presonus preamps are supposedly not all that great. And Alesis seems to be the ones that don't last or otherwise fail when you need them most. Although I have noticed that most of the school bandrooms I've been in that have monitors, have a pair of Alesis monitors.

That being said, I know someone that has a fp10/firepod and is happy with it. But he's a brass player and doesn't do much recording. I'd probably go for the echo myself. Not that I'm in the market for anything with more than two xlr ports. Especially since I only own one xlr mic and cable.

If you want to stick with firewire, you might check here for linux drivers.

http://freebob.sourceforge.net/index.php/Main_Page
http://freebob.sourceforge.net/index...ported_Devices

It may not mean much to some. But if it has linux drivers, not only do you have the option to use it in linux. But it was popular enough, or someone cared enough, or someone got paid to write a driver for it. All of which should be a good indication about the quality of the device. Or at least the support level for it.

[drummer1549]

thanks for the input shadow, i will definitely take a look into that.

ive also been looking into the motu 8pre has anyone used one or know how they compare tot he presonus and/or alesis?

[tylaj04]

I'm very happy with my Firepods (FP10s) that I use for a mobile recording setup. I have no complaints about the preamps, but I'm sure if given the opportunity to stack them up against much nicer and more expensive pres, they wouldn't quite hold up. But, It's not like you're going to plug in a SM57 and a $100 LDC into it and say, "Crap, I wish I had spent the extra $__00 dollars on something better". You're gonna say "Sounds fine".


Mine have been fairly reliable. I ran into one minor hardware problem, got it repaired in 2 weeks, I just had to pay the shipping to their plant. I "upgraded" to Windows Vista (not by choice) and ran into lots of compatibility issues, but was easily able to find updated drivers on their website, and they even mailed me a newer version of Cubase that would work with Vista. [if you get a Presonus product, seriously consider investing in something other than Cubase]

Not sure if the other ones you're looking at offer this, but it is useful that you can link up to 3 of these. I started with 8 channels, which is enough to get by for recording a typical rock band, but eventually upgraded to 16ch which gives you alot more room to work with.

Im sure you can find one of the older "Firepods" (practically the same as FP10) used for sale for less than $300. I'd give it a shot. I think its the best deal for the money. No its not the best thing out there, but start out with one, or maybe even see if you could do a shootout and try an FP10 side by side with another, more expensive option (see if paying the extra money is worth it).



I have also worked with a MOTU 8pre...... no distinguishable audio quality differences to my ears. The features and the layouts are slightly different, just depends on which suits your needs more.

[drummer1549]

thanks for the info tylaj04.
yeah i realize im not gonna get amazing prestine sounding recordings from a 400 dollar interface and a couple 100 dollar mics, and im perfectly happy with that (to me, anything will be better than my mbox2). I just want to work my way into having a nice little studio, and be able to record decent sounding demos without spending a couple grand. Do you have any suggestions as to a trustworthy place i could find a used firepod, or other interface? I looked on ebay, but there werent any firepods and not any good deals on anything else...

[Stevil]

adat light pipe interface & ada8000
yer gonna need to spend a hell of alot more per channel to hear a real improvement.

Emu 1212M PCI 24-Bit/192kHz Balanced Interface (Windows) from zZounds.com!
Behringer ADA8000 Ultragain Pro-8 from zZounds.com!
under $400 new & you should have a few bucks left for beer.

[tylaj04]

I'd avoid eBay.... local craigslist is what I always go with.

I found my 2nd firepod there for $250, and got to briefly test it out in the guys studio before I bought it.

homerecording.com/bbs/ classified section sees these go alot too, but you don't have any security in the transaction (other than user's reputation on the forum, some of which are great and have past transactions)

there may be a few online vendors that still have some firepods in stock....(?) most of them are now out and sell only the FP10s, but if anyone had a Firepod in stock, I think it should be $300 or $400 instead of $400-$500.

[drummer1549]

stevil, im very intersted in your suggestion.
I do have a question though, the ultragain says it can do up to 48khz, but the emu's converter can do 96 and 192khz. is it possible to "bypass" the ultragain's a/d converter in order to use the emu's 96 or 192, or is that what the adat does? i apologize if that is a dumb question, but a lot of this is pretty new to me.
also, do you have any expeirence with the ultragain's preamps? how do they sound?

- tylaj thanks a lot for the information, i will definitiely keep my eye out one those websites.

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by drummer1549

stevil, im very intersted in your suggestion.
I do have a question though, the ultragain says it can do up to 48khz, but the emu's converter can do 96 and 192khz. is it possible to "bypass" the ultragain's a/d converter in order to use the emu's 96 or 192, or is that what the adat does? i apologize if that is a dumb question, but a lot of this is pretty new to me.
also, do you have any expeirence with the ultragain's preamps? how do they sound?

you need the same bitrate operating on each end for the devices to 'talk'.

is there a reason you'd need to record @ 96-192? if you really want to use 96-192 the ada8000 is not going to work. cd quality is 44.1 & mp3's are lower. higher bitrates are also going to kill hard drive space faster. i have 2 ada8000's & they work great. (you can check the url in my profile for sound samples @ my band website). i'm looking to upgrade in the next year or so but it's going to be significantly more expensive & i'll be keeping the ada8000's for extra channels.
alot of people rag on the B around here, do a search & you'll find some positives on the ada8000's as well.

if the higher bitrate is important to you i'd look @ the Echo AudioFire8. my first sound card was an Echo Darla (which they dont make anymore) & it worked great til my budget opened up a bit.

keep doing some research. the firewire vs adat format decision is going to effect yer upgrade path in the future, so keep in mind what youd like to get later on & how it will work with what yer looking to buy now.

[drummer1549]

i just assumed that the 96 would sound better. is there that big of a difference?

which do you think would be better for future upgrades, adat or firewire?

that emu pci card looks pretty nice, so id like to use it, but since i dont know a whole lot about all of this, it seems it would be easier to just plug in the firewire cable on the firepod, (or whatever) and go. However, if adat has an advantage, i will go with that.

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by drummer1549

i just assumed that the 96 would sound better. is there that big of a difference?

which do you think would be better for future upgrades, adat or firewire?

@ this stage in the game bitrate is not the weakest link in your signal path.
it's probably not going to help yer sound much until you get into higher quality gear.

what kind of music are you doing? what kind of instruments are you recording? what kind of software are you using?
based on your name & the desire for multichannels i'm guessing you are micing up a drumset.

as for adat vs firewire, there are good pieces of gear using both. it all comes down to personal preference & budget. from what i've seen, most people have random software issues setting up both, but once they are installed correctly they are very stable.

personally i'm on the obsolete creamware bandwagon.
if you'd really like to educate yourself on your options check out Tweakheadz lab
Soundcards for the Home Studio

[drummer1549]

yeah ill be recording drums, guitar and bass

mostly play reggae/acoustic/rock

do most preamps have adat outputs? or does it depend?

thanks so much for all the help.

[AnAverageJoe]

Drummer, What OS do you own?

[drummer1549]

i have a new laptop with vista, and my desktop pc has XP. the laptop has 2 gigs of ram, the desktop 1 gig. I thought of adding another gig in the desktop and using it, because i assumed that xp will be more compatible. also, if i go with a pci card via adat, ill need to use the desktop.

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by drummer1549

do most preamps have adat outputs? or does it depend?

it depends. take a look: Multi-Channel Preamps | Sweetwater.com

traditionally pre's are just an analog signal path to boost mic gain & maybe some phantom power. with the demand of people like us wanting to record on their computers on the rise, manufacturers have been making multichannel pre's with ad/da interfaces built in so they can talk to computer/sound cards. firewire is pushed by apple & adat came from the alesis 8 track digital tape devices that were industry standard a few years ago.

Harmony Central - How To Choose An Audio Interface

once you get an 8 channel interface setup you'll find you have alot of room to play with various mic's & placement to tweak your sound.

[bass man]

If you need 8 and more I/o go for M-Audio FW 1814 .You can get it cheap second hand too. It sound almost like digi 002 i did A/B with jazz band (drums ,bass,sax and rhodes ) almost no difference in AD conversion ( just little better low range on 002 ) . Pre amps are bad.Never had any problem with it ....

[drummer1549]

stevil -

im leaning toward that emu pci card. From what ive read on it so far, the a/d converters are very good on it, which is one reason im liking it. Now if i buy an 8 channel preamp, will the audio i get on my computer be from the converters in the preamp or from the pci card? for example, lets say my preamp sounds great, but it doesnt have very good a/d conversion, can the adat bypass the bad conversion in the preamp and use the good ones in the pci card? in other words, does the adat cable carry an already converted digital signal, or does it carry an analog signal to the pci card, which then converts it to digital through its converter. hopefully you understand what im asking. i dont even know if i understand what im asking... hah

bassman, thanks for the suggestion, i will include that inerface in my decision.

[Drumminkiger]

I bet if you went used you might even be able to find a digi 002 rack for about that kind of money these days. i know a lot of people that were selling theirs off cheap to buy a 003 (though i cant see why presonally). Its solid, and runs off the software you already have, so it might be worth looking into.

[Stevil]

Now if i buy an 8 channel preamp, will the audio i get on my computer be from the converters in the preamp or from the pci card? ... does the adat cable carry an already converted digital signal?

yes, the adat cable carries an already converted digital signal. same with firewire.
so if yer using the analog input on the card it's self, the sound will be converted to digital there & transmitted wherever you route it. on a multi channel pre with a converter, the signal is converted after the preamp. then it gets transmitted over adat or firewire to the card where it is routed to yer hard drive & wherever. thats a/d, ...what you hear back is d/a.

[drummer1549]

ok i see.
so in my case the quality of the a/d on the pci card doesnt matter because the signal would have already been converted in the ada8000 (or whatever pre i might buy) before it reached the sound card.

do you think i would get better sound quality with the emu/ada8000 combo then a firewire interface such as firepod or motu 8pre, or do you think either way would produce about the same quality?

again, thanks for helping me, and putting up with my lack of knowledge.

Drumminkiger - thanks for the idea. it would be nice to continue using pro tools, since thats what im used too.

[Stevil]

Originally Posted by drummer1549

do you think i would get better sound quality with the emu/ada8000 combo then a firewire interface such as firepod or motu 8pre, or do you think either way would produce about the same quality?

personally i dont see a whole lot of difference from one to another in the under $1000 market. i know people who love their firepods & motu's as much as i like my setup. @ this level i think it's more the man than the machine.

i use sonar (among other programs) & am not a protools user so you might want to do some digging & see if theres any compatibility issues there.

[drummer1549]

alright, well i guess ive got a lot of research to do still, but i have it narrowed down pretty well.

yeah i imagine ill pobably have to switch to a different program from pro tools since they are selfish and dont like people using anything but their hardware.

[Drumminkiger]

Hey, mac finally figured that one out, maybe someday digidesign will too :) You should consider the cost of the entire upgrade when you're doing this because if you have to buy a different DAW app to go with your new hardware its going to add a signifcant amount of money to the cost. Ive never head any big gains in PCI card vs. firewire untill you get into things like HD systems that use the cards to process your audio. I like forewire because i can work from different computers with my hardware (plus im mostly on my laptop these days so i cant get a pci card for it) so it gives me a little more versitility, plus its plenty fast as i have no problems running some pretty big sessions through my 002 (I do live stuff on occasion and have to record an hour or so of 16 tracks at a time). It sounds like your laptop has a little more balls then your desktop so you may want to even think about dual booting the system with XP and useing that as your DAW, I like this setup a lot because its like haveing a dedicated pc for pro tools, and another one for games and internet. No matter what platform you end up going with, i would reccomend setting it up on XP in the meantime because theres a lot less problems vs. running it on vista right now. Heh, just a couple things to think about as your shopping

[drummer1549]

Hey, mac finally figured that one out, maybe someday digidesign will too :)

I'm hoping so!

unfortunatley, my laptop has SATA drives, which mean terrible compatibility with windows xp. it wont even recognize the hard drive (the first thing i tried to do was get rid of vista) so what ill have to do i guess is make my desktop work; add a gig of ram and a fresh copy of xp.

i think i have a copy of sonar laying around somewhere, so hopefully i can use that instead of buying a new software.

thanks for your input, im glad to hear firewire's speed is more than enough for my needs; i wont be using more than 8 channels at once.

[kit]

I'm pretty happy with my Presonus Firestudio Project.

Kit