Condensors vs. dynamic mics in 'less great' acoustic spaces?!

[halcyo]

I am beginning to feel like my Soundelux U-195 is just never going to be the right mic for a novice engineer, because it is just picking up the sound of a shitty room just WAY too much. As songwriter, all I really need to be able to record is vocals, and occasionally an acoustic guitar - most of everything else is done with virtual instruments.

So I offer up for discussion: in a 'less great' sounding room, is a 'high end' condensor mic the wrong choice? I am starting to wonder if a really nice dynamic mic, with less 'room sensitivity', might be a better choice for the SONGWRITER type (I do modern POP/R&B/ROCK). Not to mention, it would be fabulous to not have to be so anal about ambient noise and perfect headphone mixes when I'm cutting vocals. I sure would love to be able to cut fairly good scratch vocal tracks with the monitors on in the room (turned low of course).

But at the end of the day, will I be disappointed in the the sound quality difference in my vocal tracks? I'm obviously not trying to get professionally produced vocal results just for songwriting demos, but of course I want my demos to sound pretty great. Is there any dynamic mic that will still allow me fairly high quality demo type of vocal sound without so much 'acoustics hassle'? Any help would be great!

halcyo

[Wayne]

You can go a huge way towards controlling the room's level (and contribution to the track) by putting up a bit of gobos and overhead, which is something you'll likely want no mater what the mic. (As opposed to having that 'live room tone all the time.
On the other front, the Oktava mk012 hyper' cap seems to have quite a lot of side rejection.

[tINY]

You really need to treat the room. That said, a mic with better pattern control like a super-cardioid (or even a cardioid) dynamic can help. Even a hypercardioid SDC will pick up less "room".

I've been impressed with the PR30 and PR40 for vocals. They have articulation as good as LDCs and a nice, smooth top end.




-tINY

[A LaMere]

"all I really need to capture are vocals... and occasionally an acoustic guitar"

I think the u-195 should work great in that situation....
It'd certainly be a welcome addition to my stereo mc012 pair and sm7 mic anyways...

I'd recommend just setting up some kind of makeshift vocal booth, and at least minimally treating the room....

that mic should work great for capturing some voc's and an acoustic guitar every now and then...

[BudgetMC]

+2 On room treatments!

[halcyo]

Well, to be honest, I do have homemade rigid fiberglass 'traps' on the walls (corners and each 'reflection point' that hits my listening position), and I get ok tone, but it still feels a bit boxy and almost TOO dry.

Plus, regardless of all other requirements, I'd like to be able to get fairly good scratch tracks even with the monitors on - a mic that can basically be left set up to capture vocal ideas at the drop of a hat. It's kind of a process recording a vocal track with the U-195.

halcyo

[James Meeker]

IMHO the room is more important than the mic.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

IMHO the room is more important than the mic.

Much love to you James.... but I'll go ahead and disagree with that statement...
the mic is the essential pickup... the room can be changed or tuned in and out of tracks in almost every situation...

Ever worked in a studio with an AMAZING room..but crap mics and gear..?
I have...

Halcyo, If you're looking for a mic that you can always keep up and run vocs on the fly in order to catalog... and also keep the monitors on and track with the volume up, that certainly sounds like the sm7 to me... that's EXACTLY what I use it for.

Plus.... it's pretty cheap...

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by halcyo

... I'd like to be able to get fairly good scratch tracks even with the monitors on - a mic that can basically be left set up to capture vocal ideas at the drop of a hat.

In that case, one of the many live' type mics tailored/voiced for close up vocals. Forget that Mk-012' idea above then- no breath/pop filter.

[halcyo]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

IMHO the room is more important than the mic.

I WOULD agree that the room is just as important in terms of getting great sound. But if you are not an 'engineer', and you don't have the money or knowledge to tune a room, or construct one, what can you do to be sure to minimize the negative aspects of a given space?


In regards to the SM7, does the SM7B have what it takes? Again, I am looking at a generally POP vocal sound (whatever the hell that means, I'm not sure, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not looking for a ROCK sound anyway).

halcyo

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by halcyo

But if you are not an 'engineer', and you don't have the money or knowledge to tune a room, or construct one, what can you do to be sure to minimize the negative aspects of a given space?

RealTraps - Portable Vocal Booth

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by halcyo

...In regards to the SM7, does the SM7B have what it takes? Again, I am looking at a generally POP vocal sound (whatever the hell that means, I'm not sure, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not looking for a ROCK sound anyway).
halcyo

Pop or rock? Mostly it will be the sound of the close position. Order of importance might be; best pop filter, tight pattern, appropriate proximity effect low end lift or later filtering, and a top end that complements your voice and style, and/or later filtering.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by A LaMere

Much love to you James.... but I'll go ahead and disagree with that statement...
the mic is the essential pickup... the room can be changed or tuned in and out of tracks in almost every situation...

I'll admit that I have a ton of bias because I'm a "room sound" junkie when it comes to drums. I mean, I'll smash the rooms with compression and put them at -4 db in the mix or more. I can be pretty extreme if I can get away with it.

I'll agree that everything is important. My perspective is that I'd get a better drum sound with a bunch of SM57's (and a lot of mixing hahaha) in a great room than a mediocre room with high flight mics.

Neither situation is very ideal though.

Now having a Samson drum mic kit in a great room.... yeah that's gonna be really ugly!

:)

[Stevil]

i tend to notice less of the room & more of what the mic is pointed @ with the cheaper condensors & dynamics. currently using at2020, cad e100, sm7, sm57, 58. the large diaphram condensors are going to pick up more of the room. ultimately i'm looking to do some room treatment but this has been a decent work around til that happens.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

I'll admit that I have a ton of bias because I'm a "room sound" junkie when it comes to drums. I mean, I'll smash the rooms with compression and put them at -4 db in the mix or more. I can be pretty extreme if I can get away with it.

I'll agree that everything is important. My perspective is that I'd get a better drum sound with a bunch of SM57's (and a lot of mixing hahaha) in a great room than a mediocre room with high flight mics.

Neither situation is very ideal though.

Now having a Samson drum mic kit in a great room.... yeah that's gonna be really ugly!

:)

Well said James.... I dig it!

I'm a room sound junkie too... Sometimes, things just feel more natural to me with a bit of the room in the tracks as well...

Actually, when I first got an sm7.... I nearly sent it back because it cut out SOOOO much of the room it seemed strange to me...

[Shadow_7]

Some rooms can't be treated. At least not from a temporary / on location POV. How would one treat say, Miller Park? Dodger Stadium? Where ever the Superbowl ends up being next year. And yet bands perform in and get recorded at these venues. Not that this is the circumstance of the original poster. But it'd be nice to know which mics work well in poor accoustical environments that can't be treated. Or at least treated by someone temporarilly who doesn't have the same resources as someone who built/owns a ballpark.

[Phobos]

I have a Shure SM7b and it doesn´t take up the room as much as a condensor. I regularly use it to record scrap-vocals without headphones. No feedback and if you don´t max the volume on the monitors the leak is pretty manageble in the mix.

Here is a SM7b in action with Damien Rice, does it work for pop? YouTube - Damien Rice - Rootless Tree (Live from Abbey Road)

[tINY]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

RealTraps - Portable Vocal Booth

That's a neat little piece there. What happens when you put it around a mic pointed at a corner trapp?




-tINY

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by tINY

That's a neat little piece there. What happens when you put it around a mic pointed at a corner trapp?

I don't understand the question.