RNC for masterbus duties?

[layez]

Just curious as to how many of you are using the RNC for masterbus duties. If you wouldn't use it, which compressor plugs do you think just blow away the RNC for masterbus.

[donsolo]

first answer is no.

Second answer is plugs aren't the only way.

The RNC is great on vocals and drums and guitar but it does have a sound and strapping that across your mix is less than ideal.

Send your stuff to a mastering Engineer. Let him/her use their high end gear to 2bus your music. That's what a mastering engineer does.

As for plugs, try the Waves L2.

[layez]

Originally Posted by donsolo

first answer is no.

Second answer is plugs aren't the only way.

The RNC is great on vocals and drums and guitar but it does have a sound and strapping that across your mix is less than ideal.

Send your stuff to a mastering Engineer. Let him/her use their high end gear to 2bus your music. That's what a mastering engineer does.

As for plugs, try the Waves L2.

fair enough. but when guys like David Fridmann use Pro VLA on their mix bus you cant help but to wonder. Im sure someone here has used the RNC for their masterbus with success. I can't always afford to pay a mastering engineer either.

curious though, you use the RNC on what drum sources.. OH?

[auxpot]

in my world 2 bus(s) compression is used to add a certain colour, i wouldn´t recommend a rnc for that....
i think you´ll be better off, with trying to get a great mix without any master processing, the mastering guy will do it anyway....so if you think you technically need the bus(s) compressor, go back to the mix and fix it there.....

my 2 peanuts....

[donsolo]

Originally Posted by auxpot

in my world 2 bus(s) compression is used to add a certain colour, i wouldn´t recommend a rnc for that....
i think you´ll be better off, with trying to get a great mix without any master processing, the mastering guy will do it anyway....so if you think you technically need the bus(s) compressor, go back to the mix and fix it there.....

my 2 peanuts....

I wholeheartedly agree


As for the RNC, OH or more often, snare.

But as a mastering engineer, you do get mixes that don't need 2 bus compression. If you do a good job with the mix, the mastering engineer is really just a check to make sure it sounds good. Don't rely on compression to make up for the shortcomings of your mix.

[layez]

I wouldnt put mixbuss compression if I was going to send it to a ME, that would be ridiculous.

There are still many amazing engineers who put a compressor on the mixbus immediately. Im not that guy... just playing devils advocate.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by layez

I wouldnt put mixbuss compression if I was going to send it to a ME, that would be ridiculous.

There are still many amazing engineers who put a compressor on the mixbus immediately. Im not that guy... just playing devils advocate.

I don't think it's ridiculous. I normally work with a compressor on the master bus...
at the mix stage anyways. Always have.

the ME rarely adds "color" to the actual tracks and that's why people like myself work with a compressor on the buss... it adds glue that the ME doesn't.

obviously... working with a compressor on the bus is completely different than working with a "limiter" like the L2. Most mastering engineers would sway you away from using a limiter on the bus...

Though I don't use the pair of Rnc's I have on the master bus I'd say... try it and see if you like it. Are you working ITB? I'd also submit that there are plugs that might work better for glue than the rnc's will....

Part of the idea behind the design of the RNC was to design a cheap master bus compressor wasn't it??

[dannygold]

Maybe the FMR RNLA would add more color...

[Faderjockey]

2buss comp and mastering are two different things... I send my stuff to mastering with 2buss comp and haven't gotten complaints. Actually the opposite.

[Snatchman]

I always thought it was the digital compression on 2-Buss that was the ME's worst nightmare.!....I 've used analog 2-buss compression and it's never been a problem for MEs before. I've also used the VLA with good results also. Actuallly, sometimes with less detrimental attributes than the GSSL clones. The GSSL (IME), can be sometimes too aggressive..( depending on the track).. But as always, YMMV....

[Faderjockey]

Not true... They don't care if it's plugs or analog. They just don't want it to suck...literally.
Ask Brad Blackwood how he feels about it. As long as your mixing whether it's plugs or outboard it's your tools. You can screw it up with high end gear just as much as you can with cheap plugs.

It's not mastering until it gets to them. If your the mixer and it's in front of you... You do what ever you do to make it sound right. Who gives a flying F***k if you plugged up a toaster oven to your 2buss. If it sounds cool in the end.. and your mastering guy isn't calling you screaming your an idiot... And your client loves it then... Your Done!!

[uncle duncan]

I wouldn't track OH's through a RNC, because you'd probably have to change the settings for every song, and if you got it wrong, you'd be stuck with it. There's so much headroom recording at 24 bit, just run the OH's straight into the DAW and mess with them later.

[A LaMere]

Hmmm.... interesting. to each his own I think...

I think that the rnc does sound GREAT on OH and on snare as well....

that being said... I'll track through an EMI tg1 into the box also.... so obviously I don't have any qualms with committing to a sound before it goes into the black hole....

The rnc can make OH's explode! Which is sometimes cool....

Normally, I change the compression between songs anyways... at least slightly...

[donsolo]

OK Let me qualify:

I'm against printing to tape any effect from tracking. Record at 24 and use whatever is needed for monitoring to make the singer happy but always actually record dry.

My understanding is printing to tape early on is now called the english method.

So if you like that sound, that's some insight.

[layez]

nice to see another Baltimoron around here

[John Suitcase]

I haven't tried the RNC on the 2buss, but I don't see why it would be bad idea. If it sounds good, go for it. I use the RNC on lead vocals quite a bit, I print the compression, I think it sounds very good, if set correctly for the artist and the song.

I often use a plug-in compressor on the 2 buss, and a tape saturation plug as well. I leave a lot of headroom, as digital clipping can be a problem. When I burn a reference CD for the band, I'll bring the level up and limit it, just so it 'sounds' closer to a commercial release. I explain that this is not 'mastering' and that mastering will improve the overall levels and eq balance a bit, and I recommend they do it. Of course, some bands don't have the budget, and my boosted and limited versions end up being the final product. That's fine, I don't give them something unless it sounds good. But, a professional mastering job will put just a little more polish on the record, and keep things smooth from track to track.

You really have to use your ears in this business. There really are no 'rules'. I see people on this board asking for advice, and it often turns into 'this is how it's done', when anything anyone says is just something to try.

There are infinite possible songs, sounds, setups, etc. There are no hard and fast rules.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by dannygold

Maybe the FMR RNLA would add more color...

Tried it........for my taste it was a bit too much color. That little experiment did get me to run the mix through just my converters and back in, which I liked a whole lot. That alone seemed to glue things together nicely......just tickling the clip lights.

[John Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Tried it........for my taste it was a bit too much color. That little experiment did get me to run the mix through just my converters and back in, which I liked a whole lot. That alone seemed to glue things together nicely......just tickling the clip lights.

What converters? Apogee with 'soft clip'?

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Unclenny

Tried it........for my taste it was a bit too much color. That little experiment did get me to run the mix through just my converters and back in, which I liked a whole lot. That alone seemed to glue things together nicely......just tickling the clip lights.

Nice!! It makes sense to me...

for "glue" not much is really needed... a bit of soft clipping from your converters is doing the trick for you...

I'll admit, I use some form of McDsp plugs on the master bus right now...
though the choice changes.... depending on what I'm doing...
Most of the time... it's just some form of analog channel "ac1"... other times it's one of the compressors from "cb4"

The ssl comp in the new waves bundle works really cool too....
Still haven't tried the bus comp from the API bundle yet...

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

What converters? Apogee with 'soft clip'?

Nope just RME ADI-2. Just a little flicker on the red.

Really changes things relative to just bouncing ITB.

[Jungle Jazz]

I've tried the RNC on the two buss, but I didn't like it so much. For a budget compressor, I much prefer the Pro VLA on the two buss.

[John Suitcase]

Lynn Fuston (The Listening Sessions) noted that a lot of people liked the sound of a ITB mix routed through a Pultec EQ in bypass. This passes the signal through the transformers, from what he said. I think any kind of processing that affects the entire mix will have some 'glue' effect. Of course, mastering adds to this, but I like to shoot for a finished sound when I'm mixing, as much as possible.

[staudio]

If it sounds good to you then don't worry about what your doing. I once remastered a song by reamping it through the control room speakers and then recording it in stereo. Added a nice ambience to the whole mix. Whatever works.