Best 8 channel pre with ADAT for under 1K?

[tnjazz]

Originally Posted by PlugHead

Said it before and they're getting harder to find, but: look for a used Panasonic/Ramsa WZ-AD96M: great converters with some respectable pre's (think "straight wire w gain") that are workhorse units. Has ADAT I/O, AES out, WC I/O, 96k via ADAT/SMUX, etc., etc.,...

Mine is not FS, and I love it to death - even with all the modern converters/designs, this one holds it's own...

Best in your quest,

I will second this. We've got two of them and they're fantastic for what we do.

I do want to point out that they only do 4 channels of 96k via ADAT though. I think they'll do all 8 over the AES outs, although I've never tried it.

[Mr. Boom]

Originally Posted by jaydeluca

mackie onyx 800r is nice

i have it and use it extensively and have no complaints

++1 on the 800r. Very happy with mine. The M/S decoder is priceless. The clock makes my 003 sound so much better.

[redddog]

Originally Posted by DBlakely

I have an 800r, and it is pretty good. It sounds neutral, if unexceptional (certainly compared to my Pacifica). However, I actually like the pre's on my Fireface better than the 800's for many vocals, and acoustic guitar. The RME Octamic d would probably be a good thing to look at. RME's converters have to be at least as good as the ones in the Mackie box, plus it has steadyclock jitter reduction.

Just a thought.

Reverse that for me. I found the Fireface pres to be very sucky. Lifeless. It was the main reason why I sold the Fireface. The 800r pres are far better than those FF800s, for me anyway.

[jslevin]

The Onyx pres are certainly very good quality for the money. The Octopre pres are not.

The preamps on the RME Fireface are not really usable except for scratch tracks, or maybe to pass a DI signal that doesn't need much gain.

If I were you, I definitely would be checking this new product out before buying anything else. Basic preamp and converter designs are evidently the same as on all the Firestudio products (and the Digimax FS).

JSL

[hgen]

Echo Audiofire 12 converter - It simply has the best converters out there under $1k and 12 channels! $539

Echo AudioFire12 Computer Based Firewire Audio Recording System

Soundcraft EPM 12 - Beats the Onyx and Presonus on all levels, has oodles headroom and is ultra quiet, plus every channel has british eq. Has the same identical GB30 Preamps as their high end flagship Consoles. phantom power etc....Bargain of the century!! $429

Soundcraft / Spirit | EPM 12 - 12 Mono + 2 Stereo Audio | RW5736

IMO, 12 channels of high end under $1K

[Royer121]

+1 for the Digimax FS Pres and Converters

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by hgen

Echo Audiofire 12 converter - It simply has the best converters out there under $1k and 12 channels! $539

Soundcraft EPM 12 - Beats the Onyx and Presonus on all levels, has oodles headroom and is ultra quiet, plus every channel has british eq. Has the same identical GB30 Preamps as their high end flagship Consoles. phantom power etc....Bargain of the century!! $429

IMO, 12 channels of high end under $1K

I like the way you're thinking -- a lot -- but I'd like it a lot better if the mixer had balanced direct outputs rather than unbalanced insert points. It might work, but then again you might be signing the guy up for a bunch of level-matching problems and possibly worse.

JSL

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by jslevin

The Onyx pres are certainly very good quality for the money. The Octopre pres are not.

The preamps on the RME Fireface are not really usable except for scratch tracks, or maybe to pass a DI signal that doesn't need much gain.

If I were you, I definitely would be checking this new product out before buying anything else. Basic preamp and converter designs are evidently the same as on all the Firestudio products (and the Digimax FS).

JSL

So..do it has the same pres/converters as the FS?....

[hgen]

Originally Posted by jslevin

I like the way you're thinking -- a lot -- but I'd like it a lot better if the mixer had balanced direct outputs rather than unbalanced insert points. It might work, but then again you might be signing the guy up for a bunch of level-matching problems and possibly worse.

JSL

Well Effects aisles are always unbalanced and that's never a problem, the reality is hum problems are highly highly unlikely with modern gear and would be easy to track down if something was introduced and found incompatable.

[Jungle Jazz]

According to the folks at Presonus, the new D8 and the Digimax FS have the same preamps. It's just that the D8 has fever features (no DA conversion, only up to 48 Khz, etc.).

Think of it this way: the older flagship preamp from Presonus was the Digimax 96K; then they came out with the lite version, the Digimax LT. Now they are dong the same thing with the new line. The new flagship is the Digimax FS, and the lite version is the D8.

[big country]

Originally Posted by Snatchman

So..do it has the same pres/converters as the FS?....

it doesn't have the sample rate SMUX 96k that uses 2 adat connections
pretty sure the pre's are the same though

[Kevinlane]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

I thought of this one as well, but haven't heard good things about the lower Focusrite lines. Are you just buying a logo at this price point? SO now the question has morphed to ONYX 800R vs. FOCUSRITE OCTOPRE. Anyone heard both?

I have owned both, and did a direct comparison. BTW I have a Lynx2 pci card, so using either as a master I didn't try. (but adding my Lynx when I did, gave new life the the Octopre BIG TIME!)

I bought the Mackie thinking it would be a bit of an improvment, I tried and tried to like it over the Focusrite.
Bottom line, for me, the Focurite had more depth and therefore, realism.

The mackie had more upper mid, and just didn't sound(ugh the ambiguous phrase) "musical".
I could see some liking the upper mid thing mistaking it for more "highs" but the focusrite had just as much extension. (I did a crude shoot out and even tried to do some FET snapshots and even visually compared them.
I used Voice, acoustic guitars, steel and gut,and used bass thru the DI, all had depth on the Focusrite, where the Mackie was just brighter. YMMV

So I sold my new improved and keptwhat I had had for over 3 years
(I wish I had the mid side decoder so I could get a taste for that)

A word of caution, it has been talked about around here before, but DON't use the comps on the Focusrites, just too noisy.

[hgen]

Originally Posted by Kevinlane

I have owned both, and did a direct comparison. BTW I have a Lynx2 pci card, so using either as a master I didn't try. (but adding my Lynx when I did, gave new life the the Octopre BIG TIME!)

I bought the Mackie thinking it would be a bit of an improvment, I tried and tried to like it over the Focusrite.
Bottom line, for me, the Focurite had more depth and therefore, realism.

The mackie had more upper mid, and just didn't sound(ugh the ambiguous phrase) "musical".
I could see some liking the upper mid thing mistaking it for more "highs" but the focusrite had just as much extension. (I did a crude shoot out and even tried to do some FET snapshots and even visually compared them.
I used Voice, acoustic guitars, steel and gut,and used bass thru the DI, all had depth on the Focusrite, where the Mackie was just brighter. YMMV

So I sold my new improved and keptwhat I had had for over 3 years
(I wish I had the mid side decoder so I could get a taste for that)

A word of caution, it has been talked about around here before, but DON't use the comps on the Focusrites, just too noisy.

Yeah, i liked the octopre too, has full bandwidth specs too. I liked the limiter a bit, didn't notice any noise, gave everything a bit of tone, life?

[Snatchman]

I've not heard the FS, FirePod, etc. so I can't comment on those pres, but I had the LT for about 2 1/2 years up to about a couple months ago. I liked the LT ( I thought a lot) until I had it modded by Matt @ BLA... Total night and day difference!..... I sold it ( needed the money at the time.....) It was the only LT BLA had modded up to today. I guess it kinda spoiled/made me skeptical about the DigiMax line of pres and converters even though stock, they are work horses! To bad I couldn't have compared the new pres/converters to my modded LT side by side..Talk about lifting blankets, veils off of speakers......YMMV

[SUPADUPA]

I have used most of the units talked about so far ...

the Digimax fs is the winner ... it really is quite good ...

[jslevin]

Whole bunch of YMMV type situations here ...

Originally Posted by hgen

Well Effects aisles are always unbalanced and that's never a problem, the reality is hum problems are highly highly unlikely with modern gear and would be easy to track down if something was introduced and found incompatable.

My experience is that there are a whole host of potential problems that can be avoided simply by connecting things up as intended -- balanced to balanced, unbalanced to unbalanced, +4 to +4, etc. It's not just hum and potential ground issues, it's also level matching to ensure the optimal gain structure -- more signal, less noise and/or clipping, and each amp and processor being used in its intended "sweet spot." These advantages (and avoiding potential problems) for me add up to a simple conclusion -- connect things the way they're supposed to be connected, period.

There are of course ways to deal with mismatched i/o with a special cable or a converter box -- hey, I'm selling four LLS2 line shifters, get in touch! -- but that complicates the setup a bit and adds to the cost a bit. I might hack through a setup like this in a pinch, but I would never advise it as a regular setup. I mean, why not just do it right?

Originally Posted by Jungle Jazz

Think of it this way: the older flagship preamp from Presonus was the Digimax 96K; then they came out with the lite version, the Digimax LT. Now they are dong the same thing with the new line. The new flagship is the Digimax FS, and the lite version is the D8.

I'd stick with the first part of your post -- the Digimax FS has more features but isn't more high-end than the D8. It's funny, for me, just having the mic inputs on the back rather than the front makes the D8 the more pro piece.

Originally Posted by hgen

Yeah, i liked the octopre too, has full bandwidth specs too. I liked the limiter a bit, didn't notice any noise, gave everything a bit of tone, life?

No offense, but the "full-bandwidth" specs sadly don't include the words "doesn't sound like ass." Specs, schmecks, the Octopre is a weak-sounding piece among its competitors, period. I've read comments to the effect that the Octopre LE actually sounds a lot better, but I can't speak to that myself.

Originally Posted by Snatchman

I guess it kinda spoiled/made me skeptical about the DigiMax line of pres and converters even though stock, they are work horses! To bad I couldn't have compared the new pres/converters to my modded LT side by side..Talk about lifting blankets, veils off of speakers......YMMV

I never did get to hear your modded LT (though I was tempted!), but let me assure you that the FS/Firestudio generation of preamps and converters is a whole different ballgame from the stock LT, and the LT also did not have the same converters or preamps as the original Digimax (later upgraded to 96), which is pretty well regarded. I did not think the LT was a particularly good-sounding piece for the money when I tried it out a few years ago, but the latest stuff not only sounds a lot better, it's about half the price.

JSL

[redddog]

I have owned and used extensively, a Firepod, a Fireface 800 and an 800r/Audiofire 12. I no longer own the firepod or the fireface.

The AF 12 is flat out the best sub $3000 12 channels of conversion out there and, when paired with great conversion, the 800r is exceptional for the price. Both are a steal. I use the 800r primarily for drum tracks or anything requiring lots of clean gain. It's great.

[Astrain]

Ive been very happy with my Focusrite saffire 26 i/o you can use it as a standalone preamp or you can use it as a firewire interface for logic with 2 headphone outs and 2 aditional adat i/o and spdif

I mean for less than 1k I think its a very good deal.

[NickyB86]

I have to throw another vote towards the octopre...
best bang for the buck under 1k for sure!

[dragan]

I gotta go against the Octopre... it's a functional piece of gear (it works), but that's about it. No wow, no nothing, not significantly better than my 002r pre's. I borrowed it, used it for a bit, and got really disappointed.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Boom

++1 on the 800r. Very happy with mine. The M/S decoder is priceless. The clock makes my 003 sound so much better.

Not to knock the 800R, but what is so priceless about an M/S decoder?

Not only can you can decode the M/S really easily in any DAW -- or for that matter on many analog mixers -- but you're kind of shooting yourself in the foot by capturing the decoded M/S as left/right rather than just capturing the raw M/S to disk. There simply is no reason to commit to a certain balance between MID and SIDE while you're tracking.

JSL

For those who don't know, here's how you decode M/S in your DAW, or on an analog mixer:

1. Set up "Mid" channel using the Mid mic track, and pan to dead-center.
2. Set up "SideL" channel using the Side mic track, and pan hard left.
3. On SideL, insert a pre-fader send to an internal "side" buss.
4. Set up "SideR" channel with input to the same internal "side" bus, and pan hard right.
5. On SideR, insert a simple plugin with a phase flip function, and flip it. (Most DAWs come with a stock plug-in for Trim or a 1-band EQ that will include phase flip, which is usually a button marked with the ø null sign.)
6. Group SideL and SideR together so that their fader levels stay identical.

That's it -- what this does is absolutely identical to a hardware M/S decoder. Now you can play with the balance between the mid channel and the side channel(s), for both tonal quality and the width of the stereo image -- "more side for more wide." You can also buss all three channels to a stereo internal buss, treat it as a submix. You may even want to apply a little EQ to the individual mics, and as long as you apply the same EQ to the two "Side" channels, everything will stay groovy.

[superjetboy21]

Presonus Digimax FS.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by wrigley

There is nothing better than RME ADi8 pro or DS in this price range IMHO. They sound good at any price, very tape like whatever THIS means. BIG FAN

Hey, you know what else is great in this price range? This mic! This chair! This laptop! This television!

Meanwhile, the ADI-8 isn't in this price range and also (just like all the above items) isn't an 8-channel preamp. Thank you for not paying attention.

JSL

[66d35]

I use an Octopre LE if I need to run more channels in via ADAT into my Apogee Ensemble. Comments like it "sucks big time" are really very far from the mark, IMHO. It is clean, quiet and neutral. Not the very best or most esoteric pre's in the world, obviously... but they do the job to a professional standard and they do it reliably.

Andy

[Nhọ]

Originally Posted by hgen

Echo Audiofire 12 converter - It simply has the best converters out there under $1k and 12 channels! $539

Echo AudioFire12 Computer Based Firewire Audio Recording System

Soundcraft EPM 12 - Beats the Onyx and Presonus on all levels, has oodles headroom and is ultra quiet, plus every channel has british eq. Has the same identical GB30 Preamps as their high end flagship Consoles. phantom power etc....Bargain of the century!! $429

Soundcraft / Spirit | EPM 12 - 12 Mono + 2 Stereo Audio | RW5736

IMO, 12 channels of high end under $1K

how would you connect those 2 pieces together?

I'm new to this recording (this is actually my 1st post), this set up seems perfect for my budget and what I'd like to record (drums).

Thanks.