Mojave MA-200 vs AKG414

[rockstar_josh]

The Mojave will definitely be different. It's a good mic, but it can get harsh. I would go ahead and demo it; you'll probably think it's a good contrast to the 414. Of course, if you look around here a little you may find some other suggestions for a tube mic in that price range. Good luck!

[peeder]

The MA-200 for the acoustic and probably something else for voice. You might want to get the vocal mic first. You can sing into an MA-200 but you will probably have to de-ess.

[BrentA]

If you are looking for something that is a lot different than the 414 I would get something else besides the Mojave. They both can be excessively bright and both are used on the same types of instruments. Consider something with a smother high end.

[nicpope]

I haven't ever had a singer get too sibilant on an MA-200, but its not the kind of mic you would want a singer to get too close up onto or it will. Just tell them to back off, and it can be really nice and bright without being too harsh.

I'm a big big fan. Awesome on tom toms too. :-) Total overkill.

[uncle duncan]

For rock vocals, I'm surprised you don't have a SM7b or a Heil PR40. It would be wise to try them both together, since, I believe the Heil might have a bit more presence. The Heil is good on a thick vocal that needs to cut through a mix, where the SM7 might be better for a thinner vocal that needs to be beefed up a bit. But either one would be a different flavor from the 414 (which is a great mic.)

Anyway, I would think a mic would be a good choice over new convertors, at least until you have a couple 2 or 3 mics to choose from for different applications. Great convertors with the wrong mic won't do you much good, but the right mic through the RME would get you some decent tracks.

[dykesh]

thanks for all the replies. I have considered an SM7b but did not know if that was much different than a 57? My goal is to eventually have a royer 121 and a tube mic to go with my 414. I wish the royer was a go to vocal mic as well. I'm also researching the pearlman and peluso mics.

[Baz]

THIS is a pretty damn good mic. It was good enough for some of the vocals on a new Acid vocal loop pkg for Sony too, where ironically, the chain was into a GR pre and M77 Can take loud rock vocals very well also. The first guy I tried it on was hella loud. Lots of buzz around the AVANT stuff that you might want to read, but I've never heard one.

what model is your 414 btw? I have a BULS and wouldn't refer to it as a "bright" mic, like the TLII for eg.

[camerondye]

If you want a ribbon you can sing in also get an AEA R84, I've heard they are great. I have a Peluso R14, but never tried a vocal on it yet.
cam

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by BrentA

If you are looking for something that is a lot different than the 414 I would get something else besides the Mojave. They both can be excessively bright and both are used on the same types of instruments. Consider something with a smother high end.

well that depends which model of 414 are you refering to the 414s i have used are anything but bright. 414 and bright just dont go together in my mind.

[Chaellus]

MA-200 is pretty darn good id say it sounds kinda like a U-47 Fet version and which c414 there are about 4 diffrent plus versions..but nevertheless MA-200 woudlnt be a bad choice.

[popmann]

The Sm7b is a good pairing with the 414.

Middy...scooped.

Done.

The Mojave is sadly just not in the class with either, IMO.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by popmann

The Sm7b is a good pairing with the 414.

Middy...scooped.

Done.

The Mojave is sadly just not in the class with either, IMO.

Should I dig up the post where you claimed the MA-200 was probably indistinguishable from a U-67 in a blind test?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...-ma-200-a.html

Originally Posted by popmann

FWIW...I've got vocal tracks here done with two different U67s and a third with a Korby67...The Mojave sounds so close to the real 67s you can switch one line from one track and the next from the other and not tell. The Korby 67 DOES sound a bit different, as it's his 67M (modded)--he pulled some of the bark out of the mids intentionally.

I am sure that I could not tell you in a blind taste test which of the three were which. Assuming you attentuate the highs on the brighter 67. Given the variance in the two real ones...I'd say it's safe to say we have a damn fine 67 clone here. It seems to have a touch less low midrange warmth--but, I'd likely cut that a touch in a busy mix, so...

That's after a day or so...we'll see how it wears with time. I don't like it on acoustic guitar at all...that worries me a bit, but I've never pointed the real 67s at the acoustic--maybe it's just not a good match for a bright Taylor.

Definately a mic worth the dough.

Say the MA-200 sucks on acoustic guitar, sounds identical to a 67, and isn't in the class of the SM7 or 90's era 414...I will follow your every word from now on, sir.

[dykesh]

thanks for the replies. I have a B-ULS version from early 90s. It's not too bright at all but I am looking for a mic that would give my voice more midrange warmth. if the sm7b is scooped, that may not work as well either. The pearlman TM-1 sounds like a winner but that's more money. I'll get some demos, that's the only way to know...

[popmann]

The Sm7b is the middy one. The 414 is the scooped one. Sorry that wasn't clear.

Re: my past comments on the Ma200...I'm not sure what to say except that it was based on testing on MY voice initially when I took delivery...and happened to have doen some U67 tracks not long before to compare. The longer I tried to live with the tracks...the more tunes I put it on...the more different instruments I pointed it at...it didn't stand up well at all.

I'm willing to admit I was mistaken. The tracks I posted it was an amazing likeness. Less so, as I admitted in those initial reactions if you left them uncompressed...

[peeder]

It's OK a subjective opinion can evolve over time.

However, you said you returned the mic shortly after that. Did you get one later again? How informed is this opinion?

The MA-200 wins shootout after shootout on acoustic instruments where you want both transient detail and a bit of tube warmth. I consider it an "acoustic spotlight" as it brings things forward in the mix very well. It can be rebalanced to an extent with careful choice of preamp and compressor.

The 414 B-ULS and SM7 are frankly not as useful...the SM7 is right for a very specific subset of vocalists, like many mics, and can give a certain warm tone to bass cab or snare bottom. The SM7 fully exercises a preamp and a great preamp needs to be factored into the price.

The 414 B-ULS is just about my last choice of mic for anything. I will admit that opinion isn't terribly well informed because I've instantly hated the sound of it so much that I've never tried to overcome that. The old silver 414 EB's can be useful in certain situations.

[Mario-C.]

I agree with peeder on this one. I have both the 414 and the MA-200 and I much prefer the MA-200 ... I also have an SM7 and I like it but I don't use it very often.

[popmann]

I returned it because it didn't stand up. If you told me I had a ULS and an MA200 to record my vocals, I'd pick the Mojave in a heartbeat. Add in the Sm7, there's not a comparison.

I wouldn't recommend the 414 as a rule, either...but he HAS one...and it's a fine mic--for very much the opposite sound as an Sm7b. Where the Sm7b is warm and midrangey, the ULS is kinda of scooped and faster at transients.

If you look at homes studios and what they record...acoustics, percussion, amps, and vocals--those two mics will go far, IMO. I usually recommend an Sm7b and an Sm81. But, he already has a 414--it will take the place of the 81 and actually be more flexible with it's multipattern capability.

I disagree about the "subset of vocalists" and the Sm7...I do conceed it has a certain vocal SOUND, which you may of may not care for--if you want airy Mariah vocals, it's not the mic for you. But, if you think vocals sound better with a tape'ish roundness and a midrange that will poke through a mix, it's fairly universal. I've used it on both male and female vocals, gritty and pretty--it works like a champ.

If you love the Mojave...go for it. Recommend it all you want. I don't think it's in the same class of mics...it sounds nothing LIKE a ULS-therefore it may stink on a given source in comparison, but ULSs are better mics for their flavor of sound than the Mojave is for it's flavor, IMO. That's all I'm saying. And, it's fair to disagree.

[mattianlaseppia]

what for an airy mariah carry vocals? not harsh sounding and low price??

thanks

[dykesh]

popmann, thanks the calrification and the help. I think the best course of action is an SM7B. I should try that for vocals and guitar amp recording before I start spending on more expensive mics.

[Windshore]

The Ma-200 has a lot of body to it. If you have a good EQ and knock a bit off from 10k up, you'll find it has way more class than anything remotely in it's price range. I would think that the 414 TLII would be more like the Mojave than your 414, though it's presence is in the 3k range, where the Mojave is relatively smooth till much higher frequencies. (BTW I used to use a TLII all the time, now it's the Mojave.)

Bottom line is that you will really HAVE to audition these mics because they are all different. Certainly there will be a difference between a straight 414 and the MA-200, but nobody is going to be able to tell you if that difference is the one you're looking for - except you.

good luck

[BrentA]

When I said the 414 could be excessively bright at times I was referring to the newer versions. I own a mojave and have used the 414 b-uls and the 414ebs with c12 capsules extensively. I would have reccomended a royer but they rarely sound good on vocals. The sm7b would be a good choice and it is alot different than a sm57.

[popmann]

what for an airy mariah carry vocals? not harsh sounding and low price??

Nothing. How's that? There's a reason she uses C800gs and C12s.

However...there are bright LDCs that don't suck beyond belief-they will certainly be more like a cheap version of that sound than the middy warm Sm7b...Peluso's 2251, as an example. A lot of the modified chinese mics that they sub Peluso caps would qualify. The Sputnik might qualify, but is anything BUT scooped in the middle.

I never found the 414ulbs terribly "bright"-at least not by modern Chinese standards. It's certainly not what I'd call dark...and it's certainly scooped in the middle...but, it's not bright to my ear. The TL2--different story.

I will also mention this about the Sm7b---it LOVES tube preamps. Evern cheap TOOB preamps. I've used it with a TubeMP, Brick, and my LA610--they all sound better than it into a transformerless pre. That said, it still sounds better into a decent transformerless model than most cheapo tube mics I've used. Interestingly, I loved the Great River the OP has on vox...but, I never actually had it at the same time as the Sm7b to tell you how well it combines.

Definately audition some mics. Worst case, if you're in BFE...call Sweetwater or Mercenary, and let them hook you up with a few to try. It's better to pay a bit too much for the mic you want, and KNOW it's the mic you want, as opposed to dealing with companies who won't accept returned mics at all. I've had the opportunity to use a lot of mics over the past years, since Blackbird rentals is 10 min from my house...not everyone has that ability. It's too bad...it's been quite a learning experience.

[mattianlaseppia]

i'm really thank you popman, could you give me better the names of mics you say, also the model, so i search better and i try to find them and try them.

thanks!

maybe in my pm if you don't want to continue in this thread.

[popmann]

You mean

Maudio Sputnik

Peluso 22-251

??

[thermos]

Sorry to throw a wrench, but I would heartily recommend a Pearlman TM-2. Its the same price as the Mojave. It sounds really good.

[guitardom]

interesting thread. i do own the ma-200, a sm7b, and a 414 TL II. spent lots of time over the years with the uls. i will say i do not use the tl II much after getting the mojave. i like this mic a lot. the best luck on acoustic guitars with it i had it coming up over the right shoulder pointing down at the acoustic with a 451 on the neck both going through an api 312 on one pass and an adl 600 on another. both mics sounded great and could be used individually in the track. much better results than i get with the tl II. i have not found the magic spot up on the acoustic with it though, but once you give it some room away from the acoustic it really works good.

on vocals it works well, can get sibilant though in my experiences and does not work with everybody. women vocalists especially it seems to be one extreme or the other, really good or really sibilant. compliments the sm7 though. typically if 1 mic is not working for the vocals, the other one will. both are very present mics, would be more likely to use the ma-200 for any background vocals though, the sm 7 seems it is always in your face, which is typically cool. i also seem to compress the ma-200 more on vocal tracks than the sm7. i agree the the sm 7 LOVES tube pre's though!!

[dykesh]

Well, now I'm looking at a CharterOak SA538. There's not alot of info out there, but it's all positive.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by dykesh

Well, now I'm looking at a CharterOak SA538. There's not alot of info out there, but it's all positive.

That would be for vocals. It's a kind of smokey tubey scooped tone with a shiny but slightly wooly top. Think night club purring etc. I don't think I'd use one for acoustic guitar, but that on vocals paired with the MA200 on acoustic would be a pretty nice combo for the right singer.

[Sean Sullivan]

I have a pair of a SA538s, and I've used them on acoustic guitar, vocals, drum overheads, electric guitar and gotten good results with both.

I was working with a singer who has a sort of Loretta Lynn vibe going, and for her slower songs where it was mostly acoustic guitar and vocals the CharterOak sounded amazing, but on the more rocking tones a C414-B-XLS sounded better.

I really like them as drum overheads, one a foot back and a few feet up from the floor tom area and the other a foot back a few feet up from the kick/ride area, both pointed at the toms. That, with a SM57 on the snare and a e602 inside kick is all I really need. Sometimes I'll add a C414 in figure 8 4 feet out in front of the snare about waist high and do some severe compression/limiting to add some meat.

Using the pair on acoustic guitar with one at the 12th fret and another at the bridge gave me some of the best acoustic tone I've ever achieve. Defiantly smokes the C414 at this application.