Need HELP and Advice

[Ashwin]

Hi Everyone,

This is Ashwin (New to the Forum); and I'm currently living in India. I happened to stumble upon this website; and I found out that this is quite obviously related to Audio/Sound Engineering. And all of you certainly seem to be experienced in the field.

Just to say a bit about myself - I'm 26 now. I did my post-grad in Mechanical Engineering (Univ. Texas). And I've worked as a Mechanical Engineer in Dallas. However I got back to India 2 yrs back. I am a Guitarist/Musician too, I've worked real hard on that. And now I'm extremely interested to pursue my career as a Sound Engineer; and as a musician too, taking advantage of a job In the recording studio. I'd say inspired by someone like - Alan Parsons. So, I'm thinking of doing a course in Audio Engineering but its too far from Mechanical Eng and my knowledge.

So, I'd appreciate if any of you can just give your suggestions on how I can move from here, what are the best Universities/colleges that offer suitable and appropriate courses in US/Canada/UK etc... And any other contacts, links and advice will be great. I'll wait for your response.

Thanks and Regards,
Ashwin

[reflexon]

Do you really dislike mechanical engineering? I know in Houston there is a quite a demand for skilled MEs. If I were you and had a credible degree and job experience as an ME, I would do that for my 9-5 and build my own setup and record bands on the side. If you discover that you have enough clients to cover your lifestyle, then quit the 9-5. You can buy a lot of gear with a good job.

[tINY]

Isn't there still a large film industry in India? I would think that you could get your feet wet running on-site or post audio in that industry.

As far as spending money on going to school: There are a lot of them out there that teach "audio" or "recording engineering" or what have you. You may be better served in a school that goes into the electrical engineering and has a physics department that teaches the acoustics...




-tINY

[Ashwin]

Thanks to Reflexon too. Yeah! There is a large Film Industry in India, no doubt. Its only that I prefer Western music to the former. But, to make myself clearer; I'm working really hard on my guitar skills for the last 1 yr, because I don't have a 9-5 in Mech. Eng due to some medical issues - I'm staying with my parents.

Anyway, I should be back on the road soon. I started recording my own music with a beginner Steinberg Software (Not Cubase). And I want to pursue a career in Music so bad; but not get diverted by 9-5 machine design. So, it will be fantastic if I can work a 9-5 job in a MUSIC Recording Studio as a recording Engineer so, I'll have extra advantage with my interest for music. Plain and Just music can ruin my career (thats a gambling rat race). Anyway, I have to learn technical stuff professionally for a job in a studio. I don't mind dumping my Mech Eng knowledge.

So, what do I do? What course/university etc...Any ideas please??

Thanks,
Ashwin

Originally Posted by tINY

Isn't there still a large film industry in India? I would think that you could get your feet wet running on-site or post audio in that industry.

As far as spending money on going to school: There are a lot of them out there that teach "audio" or "recording engineering" or what have you. You may be better served in a school that goes into the electrical engineering and has a physics department that teaches the acoustics...




-tINY

[Shadow_7]

Make sure you choose your college wisely. I was a music major at a college. And the guys taking the audio class were telling me how they were taking reel to reel tapes and cutting them with scissors and taping them back together with scotch tape. And that's how they were expected to edit audio tracks. And this was in the early/mid 1990's. The music program sucked so bad in that school, that I dropped out of college and joined the Army. (the Army Band, but the Army regardless).

[bighud]

Many people still cut and edit with tape. Many audiophiles won't have it any other way.

[Chadlington]

The best school for this biz is the school of hard knox. Get a job at a studio getting coffee for sessions. Believe it or not you'll learn more that way without another school loan to pay off. Thats what I did. Ironically, I dropped out of college because I no longer enjoyed mechanical engineering since they took away my drafting table, and put in computers. The same thing happened in audio, but I bit the bullet and learned how to use a computer. Now I hate music, but I'm a hard worker, and a great engineer!

[Ashwin]

Hi! - Yeah! I checked out School of Hard knox website School of Hard Knox - tribe.net
But, it would be great if you can expand a little bit; I'm unable to figure out what it means - a website? or a real College? Online Course?

And please would you mind giving me a web-Link; and just brief me what its about (School of HardKnox)? - Thanks a lot.

Cheers,
Ashwin

Originally Posted by Chadlington

The best school for this biz is the school of hard
knox. Get a job at a studio getting coffee for sessions. Believe it or not you'll learn more that way without another school loan to pay off. Thats what I did. Ironically, I dropped out of college because I no longer enjoyed mechanical engineering since they took away my drafting table, and put in computers. The same thing happened in audio, but I bit the bullet and learned how to use a computer. Now I hate music, but I'm a hard worker, and a great engineer!

[donsolo]

OK listen,

First point is that cutting tape with scissors is ridiculous, you need demagentized razorblades.

Second is this:
I spent a LOT of money at Berklee College of music. Skip it. What is it with Engineers thinking that a degree in music will give them a career in music? I have a friend just like you (except he didn't have medical issues) who dropped a great ME career to go "chase the dream." It's really quite silly. You wind up spending a fortune on these schools (most of them that actually teach are private) and in the end, you still wind up sweeping floors and cleaning toilets in a studio for free.

This is not the road to follow if you want to make ME money. Your best bet is stick with the 9-5 and if you're truly passionate about music, it won't bog you down. I do film scoring after a 9-5 and have produced a few records this way. It's not THAT bad.

And not to sound like a dick but if you have medical issues keeping you from a 9-5 job, Music is NOT the way for you, these are 12 hour days with crappy pay. You can't really take sick days in the middle of tracking.

Finally, the school of hard knocks is "THE STREETS" it is no particular school. It's experiential learning at it's finest.

As for getting a job in the music industry, don't. Those guys that work 9-5 at say capitol records don't do recording in their spare time. They love their job and it is truly their calling.

I'm rather jaded but I'm just sick of idealistic nonsense floating about. That's how fullsail and Berklee and others profit. They want you to believe so bad that if you just go to school for it, you'll get some magical abilities that you didn't already possess. This just isn't true. Your ear is the only thing that can get you work, knowing how to work the knobs is secondary to hearing that the knobs need to be worked.

Play guitar, have a good time but don't quit your dayjob over this. We're only doing this because we're just not qualified (emotionally) for anything else.

[Storyville]

Don't let anyone discourage you, but don't fool yourself or be fooled either. I studied recording at a prestigous school for three years, and learned nothing that I hadn't learned in my spare time. I've met full sail grads who don't know pins from needles, and I've met people with no education at all in sound who can smack the pants off of the highest trained engineers. It really comes down to tacit knowledge. You don't know how an instrument works until you've put your hands on it. Best thing you can do is take the money you would spend on a school and use it as safety money while you do a low/unpaid internship at a studio. Maybe get some home audio stuff and do your own recording, just so you can have an accessible area where you can test out ideas.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS EAR TRAINING. Anyone can learn how to operate a mixing board or what an eq does. The most difficult and important skill is learning to recognize the different aspects of sound.

The bottom line is that if you love to do it, you will enjoy devoting countless hours to it, and over the course of time you will learn what you need to learn. Interning is a great way to simultaneously build up the contacts you need to get employment as an engineer and to gain the tacit knowledge that is required of a sound dork.

[Ashwin]

HI!! - Thanks for the advice. I like the idea of trying out an internship; it should give me good experience and contacts no doubt. But, still if someone can get a course in recording/sound engineering with full-scholarship it should be splendid stuff.

You won't say 'No' would you? But then again, I have no clue what good universities are out there that give full-scholarship..Because I have an ME post grad from University of Texas - Arlington, so that can help too. Could you please name a few colleges?? As for the internship idea, that was useful.

Cheers! - Ashwin

Originally Posted by Storyville

Don't let anyone discourage you, but don't fool yourself or be fooled either. I studied recording at a prestigous school for three years, and learned nothing that I hadn't learned in my spare time. I've met full sail grads who don't know pins from needles, and I've met people with no education at all in sound who can smack the pants off of the highest trained engineers. It really comes down to tacit knowledge. You don't know how an instrument works until you've put your hands on it. Best thing you can do is take the money you would spend on a school and use it as safety money while you do a low/unpaid internship at a studio. Maybe get some home audio stuff and do your own recording, just so you can have an accessible area where you can test out ideas.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS EAR TRAINING. Anyone can learn how to operate a mixing board or what an eq does. The most difficult and important skill is learning to recognize the different aspects of sound.

The bottom line is that if you love to do it, you will enjoy devoting countless hours to it, and over the course of time you will learn what you need to learn. Interning is a great way to simultaneously build up the contacts you need to get employment as an engineer and to gain the tacit knowledge that is required of a sound dork.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by donsolo

OK listen,

First point is that cutting tape with scissors is ridiculous, you need demagentized razorblades.

Having gone to said college, I could almost asure you that they were using "scissors" and not demagnetized razorblades.

But it was a mostly vocal college. Although their brochure advertised the principle trombonist with the L.A. Philharmonic as their trombone teacher. Being a Trombone player (the only trombone player) at that school at that time, I can assure you that no one took lessons from said Principle trombonist. Although the instructor provided was quite competent. Even if we/I did have to drive over an hour and pay parking fees to take said lessons at another colleges campus.

[donsolo]

Yeah Berklee was great for that in that you wind up taking lessons with some great cats. Especially if you're a drummer/guitarist/bassist.

As for the schools with maybe a scholarship, I think you're going even farther away from reality. These schools are PROFITABLE with their programs and usually turn people away more than give them free rides. For example, Berklee gives scholarship for musical instrument playing but noone gets an engineering scholarship.

But there are a few books you can read that will teach you more about this and are more often than not - course materials at these schools.

Art of Mixing 2nd Ed. (Forgot the Author)
Mastering Audio - Bob Katz
The ________ engineer's handbook (Oswinki wrote them)

I'm sure there's others. I think you're just kidding yourself if you're going to try to find a free ride to any college's audio production program. Why are you so afraid of experiential learning?

[Ashwin]

Hey thanks so much for the Book suggestions. I'll be checking them out...

Originally Posted by donsolo

Yeah Berklee was great for that in that you wind up taking lessons with some great cats. Especially if you're a drummer/guitarist/bassist.

As for the schools with maybe a scholarship, I think you're going even farther away from reality. These schools are PROFITABLE with their programs and usually turn people away more than give them free rides. For example, Berklee gives scholarship for musical instrument playing but noone gets an engineering scholarship.

But there are a few books you can read that will teach you more about this and are more often than not - course materials at these schools.

Art of Mixing 2nd Ed. (Forgot the Author)
Mastering Audio - Bob Katz
The ________ engineer's handbook (Oswinki wrote them)

I'm sure there's others. I think you're just kidding yourself if you're going to try to find a free ride to any college's audio production program. Why are you so afraid of experiential learning?

[Storyville]

I have to disagree with the book suggestions. Art of Mixing is really not a great book, it's entry level but does not explain foundational ideas enough to really give you much useful information. And bits of the information in that text are either not exactly quite right, or just plain incorrect. Mastering Audio is an excellent book, but it might be a bit advanced for someone with no prior knowledge.....Unfortunately my post here is a bit counterproductive because I really cannot offer a good entry level book.

SAE offers scholarships, but I doubt they offer full scholarships and it cost like 16 grand or something insane to go. Full Sail is 20 grand and I don't know if they offer scholarships at all. In addition, SAE charges you 100$ just to apply. I really can't support these "audio institutes", not the well known ones at least. They just cost far too much for what they offer.

I'm pretty unhappy with this post....I'll talk to a few people and see if anyone can recommend some good books. The Oswinski books could be good, I haven't read them.