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analog consoles in the $10k-20k range
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alphajerk
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20th June 2002
Old 20th June 2002
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analog consoles in the $10k-20k range

ive been mulling over the digital boards in the $10-20k range and im not quite sure about them. they all seem so limited even compared to DP3 in operation... basically the only thing you get is hands on control and talkback/monitor section.

and for the life of me, i cant figure out how to work without an analog console with a DP system. not that i have really attempted to think about it.

unfortunately analog consoles that are REALLY good are really $$$. i mean if i get another analog console i want it to sound GREAT... i can get pretty good mixes within DP already and the instant recall is a MUST for the way all my clients schedule around each other.

i saw j mascis in tape op and he has an API tape return section for his console, thats what i would REALLY like to have if it sounded really good.... something that would give me 24.2 and at least 4 auxes, preferably 6-8. and pan. im looking at 3rd party monitor sections so thats not even necessary. i just really want it more for routing my tracking sessions around and possibly running mixes through every so often. but sounds GREAT.

suggestions?

either that, or how are digital board owners making out while tracking and mixing? the thing i like about mixing within DP is that i have "32bits" going until it hits the end of the chain, passing out to a digital board limits individual outputs to 24bits.... and it just seems redundant anyways.

oddly, once you look at api boards used, you get further into it than running a fairlight dream system. or a full tilt PTHD system... and seriously PT users, with a full blown procontrol PT system, how often do you still use the mouse? how TIGHT is the integration.... because if they actually DO incorporate auto track delay compensation THROUGHOUT the system [even counting analog i/o, et al] to sample accuracy, i would seriously jump at it. too bad it looks so ****ing ugly. well, that and altiverb being released for it.
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20th June 2002
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$10-20K can get a nice used analog console. Neotek, MCI, Sony, Amek/TAC, and Trident all come to mind. I know of a Trident 80(c I think) going for under $20. Email me and I'll get you in touch with the my tech who's client is selling it.
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20th June 2002
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Wink desk ?

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20th June 2002
Old 20th June 2002
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You can get a pretty serious console in the $10-20K range. I've seen Trident 80's, Amek, Neotek, MCI 600's, D&R etc. in there. But, then you need to factor in the cost of freight, tech time, wiring and all the other bullshit. That's usually good for a few grand more.

If you just want analog summing get a Dangeous 2 Buss. Jules like's his a lot.
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alphajerk
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20th June 2002
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no, the analog summing is about the least of my worries. its mostly for tracking and routing more than anything.... and the occasional analog mix not for the summing but rather to get analog outboard inline without latency etc. [why i want it to sound good]
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20th June 2002
Old 20th June 2002
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Strikes me the default choice is either a Trident, Neotech (API soundalike I heard tell)

(was thinking......)

F**king hell, I dont know!

Jesus!

Here's a thing... what would your clients like?

Would a Trident allow you to charge more $$??

Screw all that....

____________________________________

A PLAN


I would wait till the dust settles on 96k and look at what is out AES time 2,003

I would stick your hardhat on, do up the chinstrap, light a bowl and develop a one and a half year survival strategy that includes forward planning on finances, ongoing research on market trends and client demands...

Satisfy any gearlust with analog outboard "track-spesific" goodies, acoustics and pour time & effort into client comfort initiatives.. Now just AINT the time to be buying major studio items I fear....
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20th June 2002
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clients dont give a shit. they just want their stuff to sound good regardless of equipment in place... and not having to cater to outside engineers, im not tied by whats "popular"

it is SUCH a holdover right now. and i dont have any plans on going to 96k anyways. just extra useless information.

with digital i want auto delay compensation throughout.... no one offers that right now. even PT with its minor latency is just enough to **** drums up.

i guess im just going to have to wait until i can get up into the $100k range :(, if ever. its a shame too... considering it costs more than some houses. id have to be charging $5k a day.
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20th June 2002
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Though I'll be guilty of recomending vaporware, check with Vince at Speck about the LiLo console. The prototype was a 16-2 line only board with no eq but two inserts and a few auxes per channel and full size faders. Word is an expandable frame version will be available. I'm not sure how the monitor section is rigged. I think this could do most of what you're asking for, though. I believe the 16 channel version was speculatively about $5000-6000. There was some talk about it on rec.audio.pro a while back.

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21st June 2002
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howabout the

Audient 8024

The U.S. Distributor is ATI

There are a bunch of reviews on the U.K. Site. They are the "D" & "D" of DDA consoles fame.

I've talked to ATI, they say the street price for the 8024 (36 channel, 80 input) is about $25-26k. You can even get Uptown moving faders for about $10k more.

All analog...but not class A.

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21st June 2002
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Pretty cool. I didn't think they were that affordable. Now lets just hope they don't go under in the next few years so I can get one for myself!
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21st June 2002
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Forgot to mention that Audient has a 24 channel version that is about $22k

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21st June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fleaman
Forgot to mention that Audient has a 24 channel version that is about $22k

Fleaman
really? hmmm. i wonder how much GML automation would be for 24 channels.

see the thing about analog boards is i dont have to change my current working style.

i just wonder how this board sounds.
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21st June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk


really? hmmm. i wonder how much GML automation would be for 24 channels.

see the thing about analog boards is i dont have to change my current working style.

i just wonder how this board sounds.
Why not use the automation of DP to the inputs of an analog console. A friend of mine in L.A. does just that. He sets his console at unity and the fader moves come from his Mac. He also prefers to use the console EQ, and can use outboard dynamics without latency. I'm not sure what he does for effects. I assume he uses both outboard and plug-in
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21st June 2002
Old 21st June 2002
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Hmmmmm

Studying the present gear list on your site Alpha reveals something.. Strikes me all your eqing must take place in your DAW. That would tend to drive an old skool guy insane after a while.. (it has me, I am relived to have the usual suspects back in the mixdown lineup) But you are new skool with computer centric 'chops'.

The 'fader flat but use EQ and a few outboard pieces' on an analog system route IS cool IMHO. It's not to hard to do a recall, make up a template with a few sheets of A4, add a staple and you are set for recalling your mixes. ALL tracking & overdub sessions can be 'flat' needing no manual recall re-set between songs whatsoever.

Remind me, what makes the Sony DMX 100 unsuitable?

Trident B series becons.......

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21st June 2002
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Trident B series becons.......

Seriously....as tempting to get a Trident A or B range is ... DO NOT go near the B range. They have alot of gain stage issues. And there is **** all in the way of documentation for these as well and there is possibly one guy who knows how to look after them and thats John Klett.. contact him @ his own forums on PSW...


Other than that i can wholeheartedly recommend an MCI 429B.. Geat EQ, preamps and for digital it has more headroom than a neve! and i am serious about this being a Neveslut and all! Fanstaic huge mic and line transformers that take off the nasty edge off the digital thing. 24 busses!, full TT patchbay, inline monitors

They can regularly be found in the US for around $5K and that is fantastic value IMHO.. spend the rest of your $$ on primo signal path and mics etc.

Seriously undervalued consoles

Also checkout Neotec's there are quite a few Elites that are around in the 15-20K range and they are well WICKID!!! consoles for the $$$. Yeah and ALbini loves them as we all know......


PEACE
Wiggy


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alphajerk
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21st June 2002
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well if albini like em.... excuse me while i run [not walk] in the opposite direction fuuck i want my stuff to actually sound good yuktyy


re: sony board. well, save to FLOPPY fuuck fuuck fuuck and more than limited automation capabilities... i would rather mix with a mouse than deal with the hassles of operation of that board. it just seems like a ton of dough for a suprisingly archaic OS/operation... and apparently they arent able to push it any further than where its at now.

and having been using computers since before there were even mice, im not in an unusual enviroment regarding using one.

the hardest part to get over adjusting eq onscreen is getting past the visualisation. you gotta disassociate yourself with making the line look "pretty"

but thats why i wouldnt mind an API, VERY easy EQ recall opposed to other boards.


im so close to just getting PT, if they would institute auto delay compensation and ZERO latency [zero sample delay] and build a tougher ProControl, i'd be on it like fly on shit... especially now that Altiverb is going to be available for it.
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21st June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
re: sony board. well, save to FLOPPY fuuck fuuck fuuck and more than limited automation capabilities..
alpha, have you checked on the Sony board lately. V 2.xx is pretty cool, the automation works fine now and they have an offline editor (PC only ) with which you can store all your mixes etc. on the computer drive. Might be worth taking a second look, especially since the price has dropped below $ 13K.
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21st June 2002
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the board is below $13k now? damn.... see what a bitch it is to decide on this part of the studio right now?

offline editing is cool and all but not really what im talking about. its like i would have to mouse edit parts in DP and hands on on the sony, can it be set up as a midi controller?

so does the sony board have features like adjust all faders +/- 1db and shit? its been a while since i read the manual.
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21st June 2002
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Alpha,
Give the Sony another look. I know you used to live near DC, if you're ever in town get in touch with me. The beauty of the DMX with a DAW is that you get the best of both worlds. (and for a bit more than an 8 fader ProControl) Picture being able to have 24-48 direct outs into the Sony (mixing away on awesome faders/knobs) and one or more stereo submix outs from DP (for panning/fx automation). A killer combination. I've never understood the DMX automation bashing. I have few problems with it. Maybe if you had an O2r and miss the event list.
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21st June 2002
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If I was console shopping and had $10k - 20k to spend, I'd look at the TSM on RAP right now for $15k, but I lean towards that kind of colour. If you're mainly mixing in DP and just need a smaller frame board for routing without latency, I'd look for a discrete Studer 169 or 269. Although they're going for quite a bit less than your stated price range, I think they'd be good for routing through without putting too much of their own sonic imprint on things and preserving your tone. It would also leave you with enough change to add a rack of API 550s/560s to use as your channel EQs, if you like that sort of thing...
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alphajerk
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21st June 2002
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maybe im going to have to con greg at wps for a sony demo board for a while and play on it. the board just seems limited to me.

i do have to make a trip up to DC soon to get some beer. imagine that, its the closest area that sells belgian beers. plus i gotta see some people./
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21st June 2002
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I'm slightly NE of Baltimore, let me know if you're interested.
BTW, what seems limiting? Can you give me an example?
drew
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21st June 2002
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for some reason i thought you were in silver spring. NE of bawlmore eh? youre almost in DE. i used to love to go up drinking at the inner harbor and fells point.

limiting... hmmm, i cant put my finger on it. maybe the lack of integration between recorder and mixer... im just so used to DP being like it is. visual cues for editing etc. track arming etc... those sorts of things.

what i REALLY want is a nice controller for DP, dedicated... not this 3rd party shit that tries to be something for everyone and ends up being nothing for anyone. dont need a jack.

but i cant get that. and it doesnt seem as if motu gives a shit anymore. even with the new yamama board, there is PT support, nuendo, cubaseSX, logic... but NO DP. WTF? fuuck fuuck fuuck fuuck fuuck fuuck

so at this point im just looking around seeing whats out there... but i do have patience. a LOT of patience and will wait until something feels totally right.
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21st June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
for some reason i thought you were in silver spring. NE of bawlmore eh? youre almost in DE. i used to love to go up drinking at the inner harbor and fells point.
I said slightly NE of B-More, more like Towson. Good luck with your decision and the offer is open ended.
drew
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22nd June 2002
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What about that 'roll your own' API range, you know the modular shit that sounded like a good idea 3 years ago - then faded away, never to heard of again???

Funky Junk over here in the UK were getting all set to market them to DAW folks... but.... ?????
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22nd June 2002
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alpha, why don't you bring a DP file when you come to NAMM and we have some fun with the DMX, if you want. You'll be at home on the ADAMs...
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22nd June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
alpha, why don't you bring a DP file when you come to NAMM and we have some fun with the DMX, if you want. You'll be at home on the ADAMs...
sounds like more fun than finding a non-country band going out in nashville.
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22nd June 2002
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by alphajerk
[B]maybe im going to have to con greg at wps

(snip)

I was just in there a few days ago. They have an Audient ASP series console in the Star Trek vacuum sealed demo room if that is something you are in fact interested in.

- Jon
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23rd June 2002
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Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
well if albini like em.... excuse me while i run [not walk] in the opposite direction fuuck i want my stuff to actually sound good
Why? I'm not a huge fan of his work but some of his recent stuff like the Don Caballero disc sounds really good. I'd still look into an analog console and use DP for automation. In a few years when everyone is tracking at 192 you won't have to replace the board. Plus, you get to use real outboard gear (always fun and sounds good) and it looks impressive to clients. I get tons of compliments on my little Trident 65 looks and it's just over 4 and a half feet.
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23rd June 2002
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I agree with Jay. I also get tons of great feedback on my Trident 65 - it brings alot of warmth into the sound and the look of the studio. I do all automation and editing in Pro Tools whereas the summing is done on the Trident. This combination has been a winner for me so far and I don't see any reasons to change my setup in the near future...
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