somebody should do a low end/hi end mic pre shoot out.

[manning1]

ive never seen this type of thread on GS in all the time ive been on here.
why not ?
could be fun, everyone posting their uneffected samples from various mic pre's.
ie dry.
mebe a blind competition ?.guess the pre ?
would be nice if some seasoned users posted examples too.
without saying what pre was used ?
have a rule mebe that one can cheat as much as needed to present the best dry trak ?
(eg noise removal/eq/comp/lim/trak clean up etc is fine..but must be dry. no fx.)

post examples from the lowest of the low. up to hi end.
starting with the cassette dek mic pre.
then under 100 buk pre. eg behr/art/other pre's.
then in ascending price ranges. 100/200.
200/500, 500/800. 800/1100. 1100/1500. 1500/2k. 2k up.

but in the posting , no prices or names of pre's quoted ?
include peoples home brew/diy mic pre's too ?

i'm sure the idea might get put down by some.
but i feel that mebe some folks new to recording might find it valuable.
and get a feel for how much money to spend on this type of gear .

[uncle duncan]

There are some shootouts at this site-
The Listening Sessions
Re: your sig line - If you want a great 2 channel A/D box, check out the latest piece from Black Lion Audio.

[pikapikapi]

Yeah, I would like to hear a cheap art tube mp vs. a neve on vocals. night vs. day??? anyone?

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by pikapikapi

Yeah, I would like to hear a cheap art tube mp vs. a neve on vocals. night vs. day??? anyone?

From PepsiFX357's on 2/5/08: (WARNING! This will blow your mind!)

"Here's two versions of this song, the first one is without lyrics but still the same mix.

The second one is every track run through the N72. And vocals.
[The N72 is a Neve 1272-clone from Seventh Circle Audio).

No N72: http://www.bencookemusic.com/song_mixdown.mp3

N72: http://www.bencookemusic.com/song_mixdown2.mp3

The vocals are done with the Peluso 22 251 tube mic."


Hear the difference between a several hundred dollar, Joe Six-pack preamp and a Neve preamp? There's no comparison.

[pikapikapi]

damn, that sounds nice. Anymore samples out there? your saying that little preamp can make that much of a difference? you sure he didn't use anything else?

[withneil]

The N72 seems to make stuff sound like a record magically. Must get mine finished!

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

From PepsiFX357's on 2/5/08: (WARNING! This will blow your mind!)

"Here's two versions of this song, the first one is without lyrics but still the same mix.

The second one is every track run through the N72. And vocals.
[The N72 is a Neve 1272-clone from Seventh Circle Audio).

No N72: http://www.bencookemusic.com/song_mixdown.mp3

N72: http://www.bencookemusic.com/song_mixdown2.mp3

The vocals are done with the Peluso 22 251 tube mic."


Hear the difference between a several hundred dollar, Joe Six-pack preamp and a Neve preamp? There's no comparison.

oh c'mon.for crying out loud, if you're going to listen to, let alone DO these type of comparison's, at least do them on a equal playing field. I opened both in Wavelab and the "N72" version has about a 4db higher average crest and often hit's 0dbfs, so it's obviously been mastered to a degree

the non-72 version has a steady crest of -6dbfs with random spikes to 0dbfs. this comparison is complete fvkin bollocks.what a joke.The only thing that blew my mind was how ridiculous the comparison is.

[DamnYankee]

Yes - one is louder than the other but there's no denying that signature Neve sound: warm, full, crisp, & alive - regardless of the dB level.

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

oh c'mon.for crying out loud, if you're going to listen to, let alone DO these type of comparison's, at least do them on a equal playing field. I opened both in Wavelab and the "N72" version has about a 4db higher average crest and often hit's 0dbfs, so it's obviously been mastered to a degree

the non-72 version has a steady crest of -6dbfs with random spikes to 0dbfs. this comparison is complete fvkin bollocks.what a joke.The only thing that blew my mind was how ridiculous the comparison is.

[moon_unit]

A mic preamp comparison ...

... using electronic drums.


I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

oh c'mon.for crying out loud, if you're going to listen to, let alone DO these type of comparison's, at least do them on a equal playing field. I opened both in Wavelab and the "N72" version has about a 4db higher average crest and often hit's 0dbfs, so it's obviously been mastered to a degree

the non-72 version has a steady crest of -6dbfs with random spikes to 0dbfs. this comparison is complete fvkin bollocks.what a joke.The only thing that blew my mind was how ridiculous the comparison is.

That's the reason that everyone posting random samples cut through different preamps in different rooms with different instruments and singers on different mics and played back at different levels is totally meaningless.

The closest you'll get to a meaningful comparison would be either the 3D Pre CD (34 preamps) or Preamp Summit DVD (24 preamps). It's a controlled environment, with controlled levels and everything stays the same except the preamp. That's the only way you'll learn anything, short of getting them all together and doing the comparisons yourself. And getting 34 preamps in one room to listen to and compare...well...good luck with that. I've done it and it's a lot of work. But you can learn a lot in a very short period of time.

The Pre CD is also available for download now. For more info on either, click the URLs in the sig below.

BTW, the Pre CD compares a $4000 preamp to a $66 preamp. That high and low end enough for you?

[Audio Hombre]

Lynn, I know exactly what you're saying and yes, I'm well aware of your CD.
no need for me to listen to a CD though. I rent, borrow or make notes on gear when in a studio. real world only works for me. thank god because if i believed all i read (and I bet a lot of people are just jumping on the h8 wagon not even having used the channel) about the 737sp id have thrown it out a window by now.

my point of responding to this, is we're not talking about .5db here which guys like you and fretcher say throw the whole comparison out of wack. we're talking about comparing a mastered example against a mere low level mix. it's silly stupid. thanks for the offer though.

Originally Posted by Lynn Fuston

That's the reason that everyone posting random samples cut through different preamps in different rooms with different instruments and singers on different mics and played back at different levels is totally meaningless.

The closest you'll get to a meaningful comparison would be either the 3D Pre CD (34 preamps) or Preamp Summit DVD (24 preamps). It's a controlled environment, with controlled levels and everything stays the same except the preamp. That's the only way you'll learn anything, short of getting them all together and doing the comparisons yourself. And getting 34 preamps in one room to listen to and compare...well...good luck with that. I've done it and it's a lot of work. But you can learn a lot in a very short period of time.

The Pre CD is also available for download now. For more info on either, click the URLs in the sig below.

BTW, the Pre CD compares a $4000 preamp to a $66 preamp. That high and low end enough for you?

[manning1]

uncle d .
thanks for the lion info. v kind of you.
sparrow looks mighty nice, but outside my budget.

to all.
all i was thinking of was a nice fun "v friendly "
non combatative little comparison.

thats all. and leave it wide open.
mebe just limit it to one trak of dry vocs for example.
where anyone can post a dry vocal trak.
some people for example state that mic choice is more
important than the pre on occasion.

whatever happened to the idea of just haveing fun in life ?
cant people just have a fun thread in awhile without things
getting too darn serious ?

i invite anyone to post for fun.

ps...to DamnYankee .
it was prolly the difference in the backing mix.
but....listening as a normal consumer i rather liked the way
the sound picture of the backing was presented in the non
vocal version. i just liked the backing sound picture better on the mixdown.mp3. it had a character i rather liked.
yep listened again. still prefer the backing.
not wishing to upset anyone. just my personal preference.

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

Lynn, I know exactly what you're saying and yes, I'm well aware of your CD.
no need for me to listen to a CD though. I rent, borrow or make notes on gear when in a studio. real world only works for me. thank god because if i believed all i read (and I bet a lot of people are just jumping on the h8 wagon not even having used the channel) about the 737sp id have thrown it out a window by now.

my point of responding to this, is we're not talking about .5db here which guys like you and fretcher say throw the whole comparison out of wack. we're talking about comparing a mastered example against a mere low level mix. it's silly stupid. thanks for the offer though.

We're on exactly the same page. Something smells funny about the samples posted above. All the tracks were cut first and then, on the second sample, everything's going through the N72s? How does that happen? Unless the whole mix was run, after the fact, through a pair of N72s.

Oh well.

[Audio Hombre]

Originally Posted by manning1

to all.
all i was thinking of was a nice fun "v friendly "
non combatative little comparison.

you're right and i'm sorry for reacting so strongly. but for as much as i like to hear comparisons by people if for nothing else other than curiosity, i'd like them to have even a sniff of consistency for relevance.

[PepsiFX357]

Originally Posted by Audio Hombre

oh c'mon.for crying out loud, if you're going to listen to, let alone DO these type of comparison's, at least do them on a equal playing field. I opened both in Wavelab and the "N72" version has about a 4db higher average crest and often hit's 0dbfs, so it's obviously been mastered to a degree

the non-72 version has a steady crest of -6dbfs with random spikes to 0dbfs. this comparison is complete fvkin bollocks.what a joke.The only thing that blew my mind was how ridiculous the comparison is.

The volume is louder becuase of recording back into the software. Now I admit that the mixes aren't entirely the same. But the difference is still huge. I'll post REAL differences so that you can see.

Those mixes wern't intended for all of this hype. I really just wanted to show my friends how my mixes dramatically changed because of this. So for the confusion. As for moon man making fun of my drums!.... Nah I let you off, real is better.

[PepsiFX357]

OK..here's the deal. I made a song mostly in the box, fake drums, the works. I get the idea to re-record with the N72 straight from line out of the soundcard, back into the recording software(Nuendo3.2). Every single track was fed through this individually. I record and without EQing, no effects or panning, I tried to get the levels as close as I could to the original. Here are the promised non hyped recordings. Ok? Nothing more nothing less. You decide whether its good or not. Hoax or not, accurate or not. I don't care. This is what happened when I did the things above. I'm a very satisfied customer and would recommend these to anyone wanting an affordable pre that sounds phenomenal!

Sorry for the over dramatized mixes....my bad...

Originally made and mixed song:

http://www.bencookemusic.com/comparison_Original.mp3

Comparison N72 recording:

http://www.bencookemusic.com/comparison_N72_Mix.mp3

There, chill out...

I take that back, after listening and looking again the HiHat is panned, sorry.

[PepsiFX357]

I really like this thread, I would love to hear all the other pre's out there. Does anyone have a comparison between (whatever Pre amp here) and an API pre for toms on a drum kit?

[Soulbrother]

Microphone Preamp Mistakes and Lessons

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally Posted by Soulbrother

Microphone Preamp Mistakes and Lessons

Fascinating. And valid.

Michael Wagener's a good friend and has attended all my preamp shootouts. We are both equally obsessive about preamps. But he has more than I do.

I agree with the author that some people get their priorities out of line when it comes to preamps. Michael and I aren't among them. We'll tell you to your face.

;-)

[pikapikapi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFX357

OK..here's the deal. I made a song mostly in the box, fake drums, the works. I get the idea to re-record with the N72 straight from line out of the soundcard, back into the recording software(Nuendo3.2). Every single track was fed through this individually. I record and without EQing, no effects or panning, I tried to get the levels as close as I could to the original. Here are the promised non hyped recordings. Ok? Nothing more nothing less. You decide whether its good or not. Hoax or not, accurate or not. I don't care. This is what happened when I did the things above. I'm a very satisfied customer and would recommend these to anyone wanting an affordable pre that sounds phenomenal!

Sorry for the over dramatized mixes....my bad...

Originally made and mixed song:

http://www.bencookemusic.com/comparison_Original.mp3

Comparison N72 recording:

http://www.bencookemusic.com/comparison_N72_Mix.mp3

There, chill out...

I take that back, after listening and looking again the HiHat is panned, sorry.

Can you post vocal solo's of the comparisons?

[moon_unit]

Originally Posted by PepsiFX357

OK..here's the deal. I made a song mostly in the box, fake drums, the works. I get the idea to re-record with the N72 straight from line out of the soundcard, back into the recording software(Nuendo3.2).

Pardon my ignorance here, but ...


Isn't it kind of important, when evaluating a mic pre, to actually hear how it sounds with a mic plugged in to it ?


Call me crazy. But I don't care to hear what something sounds like when it's used for a purpose it was never designed nor intended to be used for. Of course taking a line-level signal and feeding it in to a mic-level input is going to change the sound. I don't need any stupid sound samples to point that out, thank you.

[manning1]

Hombre.
no probs , its just fun eh ?
i just wanted to keep it friendly/fun,
cos i just like fun in life.
sometimes gear talk just gets too serious imho.
like some AES shows i attended once yonks ago.

then there is the aspect , can a great audio engineer
(i'm not one..just a songwriter.), get good results from
lower end gear ? some say yes.

just for fun , once i can get outta the house
(been snowed in...lotsa shovelling....lol.)
i'm gonna go get a hi end pre,
record some vocs dry, and post a short file here in the thread,
together with some other pre's n see what folks say.
i "will cheat" (lol....half the fun ...) n try n condition the other pre's
after recording...as best i can
viz the hi end one.

i will use the same 57 mic with each.
just fun.

ps...to PepsiFX357 .
just comparing the latest two bencooke mp3's.
i sorta preferred the latter N72 this time.
(both are dry ? it seems ?)
overall tho'.....sound picture wise , and talking as
a music listener i still really like best the original.mp3
backing mix posted first in this thread by yankee.
it just gets to me somehow in a nice way.

[manning1]

heres first mic pre example.
for fun.
first of many.
mpre01. used 57 mic.
a clue. the product sold a lot all over the world.
can u guess the product used ?

[PepsiFX357]

Originally Posted by pikapikapi

Can you post vocal solo's of the comparisons?

I only recorded the mic with the N72 so I don't have any comparisons
But I can do a comparison between my Yamaha MC2404 pre's that I was using before and the N72 if you'd like.

[PepsiFX357]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

Pardon my ignorance here, but ...


Isn't it kind of important, when evaluating a mic pre, to actually hear how it sounds with a mic plugged in to it ?


Call me crazy. But I don't care to hear what something sounds like when it's used for a purpose it was never designed nor intended to be used for. Of course taking a line-level signal and feeding it in to a mic-level input is going to change the sound. I don't need any stupid sound samples to point that out, thank you.

Lots of people do it, for that same purpose, just to give a little pazazz whenever necessary. Maybe other people here would see that benefit for them also. Just remember...

[Box] ~~>Think here

[pikapikapi]

Originally Posted by PepsiFX357

I only recorded the mic with the N72 so I don't have any comparisons
But I can do a comparison between my Yamaha MC2404 pre's that I was using before and the N72 if you'd like.

sure, sounds nice

[PepsiFX357]

ps...to PepsiFX357 .
just comparing the latest two bencooke mp3's.
i sorta preferred the latter N72 this time.
(both are dry ? it seems ?)
overall tho'.....sound picture wise , and talking as
a music listener i still really like best the original.mp3
backing mix posted first in this thread by yankee.
it just gets to me somehow in a nice way.[/quote]


I appreciate the feedback, It might be the Waves L2 I put on the stereo path when mixing that screws me up...A lot of people have complained about how it sounds when used like that. The one you are talking about was just plain jane mixing under clipping and exporting it. The verb sounds different also between the two mixes.

[PepsiFX357]

Ok, I got a question for you guys.... If I wanted to compare two pre's together with one mic(at the same time). I would need an ISO box right?
If so what is a good one to get or build?

[manning1]

Pepsi.
heres a cheap diy vocal approach.
(one of many approaches.)
Portable vocal booth - Hometracked
just google for many others.

more preamps coming.

[manning1]

heres second mic pre example.
Pre02. 57 mic again.
(note this one i was closer to mic so level is higher than Pre01.
so turn your playback level down a bit..
all mp3 levels are below 0db.)
more of a closer mic example.


once again guess what this pre is, that uses ultra low noise components.
lotsa fun . its tough to do vocs with no backing music reference...lol.