Recording Bass Direct

[adamjknight]

Hi all,

I have a Fender PBASS (American Deluxe Series). Living in a small apartment in London isn't conducisive to amp recording, so i am likely to be recording direct.

Anyone have any tips on how to get the best sound recording this way.
What are the usual tools of the trade for this task ?

I am using an MBox2 (not sure of the qaulity of these things???) which has DI and and the guitar itself is active. Any recommendations for getting the best sound from this set up?

Should i get a separate DI because MBox is crap? Or is MBox DI great?
Do i need a pre-amp? Compression?, EQ? Or a Bass Amp Head? Anything else?

I am completely ignorant as you can now no doubt see!!!!

Cheers,
Adam

[BLUElightCory]

For rock and related types of music, I've never been disappointed by the combination of a Fender P Bass and a Sansamp Bass Driver Pedal/DI. The Sansamp will serve as your preamp and can impart a generous amount of grit and depth to a DI'd bass track. You can compress this signal using the free Bomb Factory "bf76" plug and you should have a decent sounding bass track without spending a ton of money. Go check one out at a music store and see what you think...

I should add (at the risk of giving you a very stock-sounding Gearslutz response) that with bass, 90% of the tone is coming from the player and his/her technique, as well as the arrangement of the song. If you can play well, your bass tracks can and will sound great right out of the gate. The gear is more about finding something that complements and enhances your personal style and aesthetic.

Cory

[Roc Mixwell]

Stepping up the analog front end will help;

I am a big fan of using the Great River ME-1NV for Bass and I think it would be a BIG improvement from the M-Box D.I. It will allow you to really zero in on exactly what the instrument sounds like, as the D.I is simply fantastic for bass. It has A LOT of character and musical vibe. Its extremely full and deep all the way down in the lower octaves. The D.I does hit the input transformer so if you push it a bit (bring back the output) to color and add some warmth.

It won't turn you into Flea or Lee Sklar, but............you get my point here.

Stepping up the A/D will most certainly help;

Definitely stepping up to a better converter will help to accurately represent the upgraded analog front end. If you have better conversion hitting the digital inputs of the M-Box, you will be bypassing the analog input electronics AND the A/D conversion process of the M-box, which isn't too great.

Another recommendation would be the API-A2D, as it would add 2-channels of really high quality mic amps and A/D conversion to the rig. The API A2D is a great way to minimize the setup without sacrificing quality one bit.

The A2D offers the classic API sound with two, 312 microphone preamps and D.I's which are very useful for bass guitar of all styles of music because of the clarity and depth of the in the lower octaves. It definitely has character and "mojo" but to my ears it's very "real" sounding. There is a very forward midrange and punchy low end so it’s great for anything in the rhythm section, as well as any vocal application.

peace
mixwell

[chris carter]

I just bought a Pbass and am loving going direct in through a GT Brick.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by adamjknight

Should i get a separate DI because MBox is crap? Or is MBox DI great?
Do i need a pre-amp? Compression?, EQ? Or a Bass Amp Head? Anything else?

Adam, the MBox DI certainly isn't going to be anything stellar. Having said that:

Are you unsatisfied with your tone?

The DI could be the issue (or the bass choice although I wish I had a P!).

Are your levels all over the place and in need of control while playing?

You might stand a good compressor.

Is the bass not defined enough to stand out in the mix?

An EQ could be the answer, bass needs good midrange definition to hear it in a mix (particularly on small playback systems).

Do you enjoy the sound of a bass amp?

You mention a bass amp head, but something like the SansAmp would make more sense in an apartment.

It doesn't get any simpler than that, depending on the issue you are facing (which you did not really define).

War

[Chunky But Funky]

My first thought would be the Avalon U5 (many a bassist use this as their live DI as well - even with upright. Nickel Creeks bassist comes to mind), but I have used the Art Tube MP in the past and was satisfied with the result.

Doug

[Janesaid2me]

I hear the great things about the avalon but i wouldnt spend that much on a DI unless you have a real studio...which you dont...seems pointless to spent that much when your going into a mbox. Gotta keep things level here.
Id check out a radial prodi for 100 bucks or a jdi for 200...both can be had for less used...and both work well on bass and are some of the best passive Di's out there.
As for eq and compression you probably need that too...but i wouldnt do it while recording...id do that with some plugins after the fact....especially if your new at this recording thing...if you go and print eq and compression you could ruin your sound fast then you know.
Best to record dry and eq and compress afterwards.

[ScottyD]

Mudvayne's bass player records direct into a U5. For me, that's a great endorsement.

-ScottyD

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

I should add (at the risk of giving you a very stock-sounding Gearslutz response) that with bass, 90% of the tone is coming from the player and his/her technique, as well as the arrangement of the song. If you can play well, your bass tracks can and will sound great right out of the gate. The gear is more about finding something that complements and enhances your personal style and aesthetic.

Cory

couldn't have said it any better.

[Unclenny]

Been in your shoes. I run with MBox 1 and my bass tone is near and dear to my heart......I use an old ('69) Gibson EB3.

Analog front end was the key to my happiness......BBE DI w/Sonic Maximizer lightly engaged (don't start with me!), Trident 4T (love the compressor) and (sometimes) RNLA into RME ADI-2 converter.

+1 on Bomb Factory BF76 for further squashing.

[allencollins]

Just get a quality DI like a Radial J48 or an old countryman
Something with a jensen tranny in it. I would stay away from crap
like sansamp bass di or pods that everyone peddles on here.

Also get a nice a/d like an apogee/mytek etc.......
The cool thing about di is you can always get a good bass sound.
With micing you can't always get one. Too many variables
like living in an apartment as you stated.

[Stevil]

+1 Sansamp Bass Driver

[Snatchman]

I don't know how the pres sound on your Mbox, but the pre is the other half of the equation if using a DI/pre-amp combo. If the pre is not good, the DI is not gonna give you but so much ( IMHO)..So..that being said, If you get a DI and don't like the pres on the M-box, go for a DI that has a gain control ( ie... U-5, Ditto,etc. ) that you could go directly into your line input of the Mbox. Just my opinion...

[johnbohn]

I know it's not exactly cheap if cheap is what you aim for, but you might want to cheap out a A-Designs REDDI. It's by far my favorite DI for bass, regardless of genre.

[Mike Caffrey]

Distortion is crucial to gettign a good tone.

I run in to a sans amp and also take a sgnal out of the paralel out so that I have two DI signals. The sans amp signal then goes to a culture vulture and a variety of additioanl possibilities. The other side usually goes to a Quartet II set cleanly or osmethign else that's clean sounding. Then I balanance out the nasty and the clean.

[Jake Dempsey]

Originally Posted by Janesaid2me

I hear the great things about the avalon but i wouldnt spend that much on a DI unless you have a real studio...which you dont...seems pointless to spent that much when your going into a mbox. Gotta keep things level here.
Id check out a radial prodi for 100 bucks or a jdi for 200...both can be had for less used...and both work well on bass and are some of the best passive Di's out there.
As for eq and compression you probably need that too...but i wouldnt do it while recording...id do that with some plugins after the fact....especially if your new at this recording thing...if you go and print eq and compression you could ruin your sound fast then you know.
Best to record dry and eq and compress afterwards.

Man... Get whatever gear you want. Weather you have a "real" studio or not. If you want to improve your tone and you can afford it, buy the thing that's going to give you the sound you want. If you're hearing things accurately, printing eq and compression can be just the thing. Depends on the situation.

The favorite DI devices I own are (in order) the API 512c, UA Solo 610, and Radial JDI. If I record a bass direct, I'll usually reamp, but there are actually good sounding amp modelers out there. I've also had good results plugging the 610 straight to a nearfield monitor and putting a 47 type mic a foot in front of it. The 610 can give you some dirt too, which is a plus. Howbout a speaker iso box?

[starfightstudio]

Sansamp!!!

[johnnyjellybean]

If you want to move this thread into the highend , I'd say API 512 and API 525

[yumdrum]

I just recently did a little bass DI shootout using a Fender J-bass into a U-5, a GR MP2-NV and an API 512c (separatly of course). Then into the Rosetta 800 and Nuendo.

No EQ was added, but tried all three with many different gain structures. All three sounded very good, but the U-5 was my preferred overall fav. really nice sound. just true and round.

[Jungle Jazz]

I'd suggest a Radial JDI, or, because you are in the UK, a Safe Sound P1.

[eor]

i have an sca n72 modded for 1/4" input and a rnc, too. think that'll work ok for bass? i ask because i don't have a bass lying around yet. anyone ever use an n72 for this?

i also have guitar rig 2, which has some bass amp simulators, too. is that overkill? would that sound lame in the final mix?

love,
eor

[contempo]

i love how hte 3rd post in this thread from mr. rocmixwell is saying that you need to get an API or whatever otherwise it's gonna suck...

and i wonder why i generally avoid this board unless i have way toomuch time on my hands... ha ha heeeeeh

in my world, compressors are a must for bass. anything else is a crap shoot. got DI's? amp? mics? what is it your after? what kind of music? what kind of tone? generally the DI is bland, if not a building block...

corner stones of eq are (roughly) 40-60Hz, 150Hz, 250-400... 700-1000kHz and 3-4kHz for snap.

best of luck!

[SkunkWorks]

I have a Great River ME-1NV and a Groove Tubes Brick that both sound great on bass. I recently tried to DI a Musicman Stingray with active EMG replacement pickups and the Great River couldn't handle the hot signal to the DI without really overloading the input and making the bass "moo." I emailed Dan Kennedy about it and he told me the ME-1NV DI was pretty much designed around a Fender P-Bass and that there's not much I can do about it. I'm looking for a way to pad that bass signal down (without the tone sacrifice of turning the bass volume knob down) so I can get this active bass running through the Great River... it sounds fantastic on my other passive bass. Luckily, in this case, I had my Groove Tubes Brick to put the EMG equiped Stingray into instead and it sounds great in its own right.

[adamjknight]

Thanks for the responses...you are bloody brilliant!!! (Aussie Sorry)

Anyway, my concern wasn't so much that my sound isn't great, although I would love a heads up on the MBox's DI and Pres in the real world?

I think the sound i have (with little experience) is ok, I am just wanting to get a good idea of the building blocks for a great sound even if i have to grow into it. These seem to be a good DI, Pre-Amp, EQ and Compression. Missed any 'must haves' for recording Bass Guitar?

I like the sound of the Avalon U5 as it appears i can use it as my workhorse DI / pre-amp for electric (american fender strat) and acoustic (maton) guitar also.

Is the Avalon U5 a good choice for a general workhorse peice of kit for all my guitar recording? (Bass, Electric, Acoustic). Or should i think of getting separate kit for each of these?

My genre is basically rock, U2, ColdPlay, The Kooks kind of stuff.

I will still be looking into the other kit mentioned...so welcome any further comment...now the scope is a little wider.

Cheers,
Adam

[Soldier777c]

Get you a Reddi and be done with it.

U5 is a good option also. (as is a 610).

[rico52]

Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky

My first thought would be the Avalon U5 (many a bassist use this as their live DI as well - even with upright. Nickel Creeks bassist comes to mind), but I have used the Art Tube MP in the past and was satisfied with the result.

Doug

Never used the U5 but the thought of buying one has crossed my mind. I have used an older Art tube pre with good results. A Groove Tube Brick works well and can be utilized for much more. I also have used the old Joe Meek VC3 and a VC6Q "British Channel" with good results.

[Blast9]

Hey Adam, the great things about the Sansamp Bass DI are:

1) Its not crap - it really isn't, and I don't even mean "its good for the price" - it really is good!

2) It gives you an "amp tone" that sits in the mix very well, especially for your style of music.

3) Part of that amp tone is the variable overdrive you can dial in, plus the "pre EQ'd" tone similar to a bass>>>amp>>>cab

4) The blend control is really useful for direct vs "amp tone"

5) The split/parallel output means you can have an unaffected/uneffected dry DI tone to send to an amp or another channel.

---

Get yourself a good compressor pedal and you're off - this is another crucial ingredient.

Something like the EBS or the Keeley are seriously great pedals

Also overdrive pedal like the Fulltone Bass drive

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by BLUElightCory

For rock and related types of music, I've never been disappointed by the combination of a Fender P Bass and a Sansamp Bass Driver Pedal/DI. The Sansamp will serve as your preamp and can impart a generous amount of grit and depth to a DI'd bass track. You can compress this signal using the free Bomb Factory "bf76" plug and you should have a decent sounding bass track without spending a ton of money. Go check one out at a music store and see what you think..

I agree completely. I go direct with my American Jazz bass and use the exact SVT setting that comes in the manual. It is an awesome bass sound. You can't go wrong with the Tech 21 (I have had mine for 10 years and it is still going strong).

[superbee]

The best bass tone I have heard is when I recorded bassist Barry Dunaway. He brought his bass sansamp and an old Fender Jazz bass. I plugged him into my Vintech 473. He fiddled with the Sansamp for a minute and from then on it was pure magic, blew my mind. I have to say, I really beleive the tone came from him. I have used the same combination since then but have not come close to such a great sound.

[Chrisc_o]

OK, we are low end here, I frequently use a Behringer BDI21 into a DBX 163x.

With this combo I can get all the beef or snap or dirt I want. Bass is my first instrument, not that I pay particular attention to bass sounds over any other instrument while tracking or mixing, but this setup never disappoints, regardless of the style of music or instrument used.

I usually leave the EQ flat, with the blend full on, and a hair of dirt from the gain know on the DI. Then adjust the EQ and presence knobs to compensate for whatever may be lacking or taking too much space.

On the compressor I squeeze about 6-8 db on peaks.

You can get these two units for less than $100 combined if you hang around on eBay for a little while.


That being said, I agree with the cliché re: the player. I have always been able to get what I needed tone-wise regarless of the gear. I haven't used an amp live in about 5 years (yes I mean in a rock setting with a full drum kit pounding away!), and I am not shy to grab any old thing when I am not tracking at home, and I am constantly praised for my tone. The real trick is to know how to get the instrument to speak, and to know the instrument's place in the song. The best way I have found to describe it is confidence; I have confidence in my abilities, so I don't overpaly and I don't get bothered by insignificant details.