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manthe
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31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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define 'low end'...

Not to be a pest, but I'm starting to feel like I 'don't belong'. I'm not sure If I have a low-end room or not. I know for a fact that I don't have a high-end ! If I'm not 'low end', there's no home for rooms like mine. I read these boards and I start to wonder where the cut off is.

SO, if I'm not low end...how about starting a new board for 'the rest of us'? Mid-range Theory?

Just musing as I finish my gin and tonic. I haven't had a drink in a long time...my tolerance is low
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#2
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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are you trying to trick yourself into thinking your recordings wouldn't be better even if you used 10,000.00 converters and an atomic squeeze box?
#3
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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this thread is useless without pics!
#4
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Alchey you can always check out the link to his website.

Manthe, granted I have not been here that long I concur with your idea. A more pro-sumer or a high end project studios forum would be a good idea. Wouldn't mind asking for a more personal section to get to know everyone more though. Or is it just me?
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31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I think the layman's definition of "low end gear" is anything that cost less than your car.
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#6
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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It's guerlla audio.

Sure, there are other mics, preamps, converters - expensive pre-made room treatments, power isolation transformers, semi-custom monitors, etc...

But how can I get good results, not have to throw out year-old gear, and have enough money left to feed my family and drink good beer?



-tINY

#7
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I dunno... for me when first posting to gearslutz I just felt more comfortable in low end... less intimidating. When I get more familiar with the vibe around here I posted some stuff to other forums as appropriate.
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31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Hmmm... this the second or third "medium-end" thread request that I've seen...

I can't remember who posted them originally...

fwiw, "mid-range theory" is probably the perfect name... seriously, can't think of a better one. I have the theory that EVERYONE would hang in the medium size...
People tend to order the medium drink size for the same reasons I'd think... it's easier to commit to being medium than being "high" or "low"...

I like the term "guerrilla audio" Tiny...

Wait, am I rambling...?
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#9
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
I think the layman's definition of "low end gear" is anything that cost less than your car.
Wait? really!?! I'm a bit surprised... as in a single piece of gear is 'low end' if it costs less than my car?? Cuz... that pretty much cuts out almost every single piece of gear that I own, or have ever used... besides some boards I guess..

Maybe it's entire studio worth>the price of my car ?? wait... that doesn't make much sense to me either...

DAMN THAT NICE CAR I BOUGHT LAST YEAR!!!!

Now I'm sure that there should be an INCREDIBLY LOW END for cellar dwellers like myself..
#10
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Maybe don't worry about belonging to any one area just post in both depending on what kit you want to talk about, after all - every studio has low end kit as well as high end kit, they'd be right to post in both forums depending on what bit of kit or project they were discussing. It's kinda easy to think about this forum as the enthusiasts/downtime forum and high end as the pro/worktime forum, but that's not really the case. Budget doesn't have to mean not studio quality. Also it's good to wander around all the forums anyway and pick up good tips, it's the same people elsewhere too (no need to be scared).
#11
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I aboslutely agree!!!

Hey, not to be a pain...but i absolutely agree a 'mid-range-theory' forum would be brilliant!!!

I have just begun my journey into gear slutiness...and i fear...because i don't qaulify for the high end i am in danger of wasting thousands of hard earned dollars due to the generality of a 'low end theory'. Surely a $300 dollar mic doesn't really site in the same ball park as a $1700 mic.

I guess what i am saying is...it would be easier to sleep knowing i am being smart with my cash and the advice i am getting is helping me sit somewhere in the middle of the price spectrum. Even if that spectrum...indicates my budget needs to step up a little.

The sales pitch of low end products can be so baffling, convincing me i am getting something i am not, so such a stear would be invaluable.

Don't get me wrong ... i am not knocking anything here...i think this site is fantastic...and really appreciate its existence and the people who contribute.

I just hope this request can be considered.

Cheers,
Adam
#12
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Some things to remember -


1. It's about the music, not the gear.

2. There's always someone who has a bigger, better, faster, more expensive, flashier gizmo than you. Being envious of what others have, means you will be in envy and mysery all your life.

3. We never really know where we fit in, in life. Or as Robbie Burns stated "Oh, would some power the giftie gee us, to see ourselves as others see us!"

But if you REALLY insist on knowing where the boundries are, take a look at audiotalk.org and click on the 'Types of Studio' button at the top of the page.
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#13
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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id say by checking your website you don't belong in low end compared to me....or maybe i just belong lower then low end.
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manthe
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31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alchey View Post
this thread is useless without pics!
Sorry! I should have pointed out that the links in my sig gives pics and a list!

I've been scouring eBay and GS B&S AND Craigslist since last night and NO ONE is selling an atomic squeeze box! I want one so bad now!

Honestly, I know ultimately it isn't about the gear....sort-of...OK, maybe it is a little when you're trying to sell your services. The musician/writer/performer part of me does not care as much about which compressor to strap across the 2bus, but when people email me asking 'how much for a 4 song demo?', I start to care.

Honestly, in my particular area, I am pretty lucky. My studio has a little more to offer than the 'regular bedroom setup', but obviously not as much to offer as a great room with plenty of...well...room! It puts me in a good position to be able to beat out the smaller setups (because I can't honestly charge that much more, at all), and at the same time NOT compete with larger. 'proper' setups that can and must charge higher rates.

I usually just post in the 'So much gear' forum because it is 'general', but I'd love a board here dedicated to us smaller, mid-range setups. Especially given the notion that most of us are trying to charge for our services and work our way up the food-chain. This is obviously not my sole source of income (I'd starve, as would my family). But, I am getting busier and busier. Honestly, I can't imagine how it would be if I *actually* did some marketing. Just from a few craigslist ads and word of mouth i get a couple of inquiries a day!

I think the person that said we all have higher and lower end gear, coupled with the person who said we all do higher and lower end 'tasks' probably nailed it. I know there are plenty of boards on this site...so what would 1 more hurt ?
manthe
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31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post


It's guerlla audio.

Sure, there are other mics, preamps, converters - expensive pre-made room treatments, power isolation transformers, semi-custom monitors, etc...

But how can I get good results, not have to throw out year-old gear, and have enough money left to feed my family and drink good beer?



-tINY

Love it! Good Beer is, after all, what it all boils down to...
#16
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I like to approach it from the other side; Tread lightly and allow the respectful space in 'High End, reap the benefits of having the top in the game around.
Each of us generally know when/where we land in a given discussion.
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#17
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tchristen View Post
Alchey you can always check out the link to his website.

Manthe, granted I have not been here that long I concur with your idea. A more pro-sumer or a high end project studios forum would be a good idea. Wouldn't mind asking for a more personal section to get to know everyone more though. Or is it just me?
ha! just noticed that actually, thanks for the tip!

Personally, I consider low end to be 'anything that I can afford' haha I still look through the high end forums, but lets face it I've never used any of that gear, and probably wont ever be able to afford it all!

D
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#18
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I like to stay in Low-end, cause then I know my studio is 100% something...
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#19
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamjknight View Post
Surely a $300 dollar mic doesn't really sit in the same ball park as a $1700 mic.

You'd be suprised. Sure, you don't get the fancy wood box or the fancy finish on the mic body, or the name recognition.

But, with the right selection, proper technique, and something worth recording - you can get great recordings with a handful of $300 mics. I'm not sure that was possible 10 years ago, but $300 can get you a really nice mic today.




-tINY


Last edited by tINY; 31st January 2008 at 09:10 PM.. Reason: phat phingers
#20
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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On the other side of the coin I have never understood why some think you have to have a $2000.00 mic in front of a guy who CAN NOT sing.
I know of several top engineers that use a SM58 to cut vocals because the artist's sounds the best on it...
And the last point is the most important I think, making the artist feel comfortable.
What ever it takes to accomplish it....
So you don't have to have a $2000.00 mic to fit in, or to record someone who can play...
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#21
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Some of my gear is high end, but I hardly ever post there. I feel like I don't have the experience or knowledge to even post a question there. I don't believe that my gear or questions is low end, so I don't post there. I don't post in high end probably because what I get out of my high end equipment is still low end.
I usually end up posting in So Much Gear, So Little Time.
Maybe the issue is not so much as quality of gear, but the quality of your production. I am a hobbyist, not a recording engineer or owner of a major studio, etc.
#22
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
I think the layman's definition of "low end gear" is anything that cost less than your car.
Or in the context of this forum. No single piece of equipment worth more than $1,000 by itself. Not to imply that you don't have $100,000 in combined equipment. But I've owned a $500 car or two in my time. Always nice to get more from an insurance check than you paid for the car. When the neighbor backs into the door of your car.

Although IMO this forum seems to tend more towards the mid-tiered gear. I ended up with a Delta 44, DMP3, AT4033a, HP4, Studiophile BX8's, and $200 in cables. When all I probably "needed" was a minimono and a battery box for my laptop.
#23
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I think we need an upper low end theory board and lower middle end theory board upper middle end theory board and lower high end theory board. Nobody should be left out.
#24
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
  #24
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You could consider forums by how much of your income is derived from recording (full-time, part-time, hobbyist). There are some hobbyists with killer gear and some full-time pros using pro-sumer stuff, so that doesn't really cut it.

When you shop for gear, are you looking for the cheapest thing that doesn't suck, the best bang for the buck, or simply the best/no compromises. I've got a mix of all three in my studio and it's for personal use only now (previously commercial, then scaled down to project).

I'm new here and mostly lurking everywhere, trying to get the lay of the land.
#25
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonboy79 View Post
I think we need an upper low end theory board and lower middle end theory board upper middle end theory board and lower high end theory board. Nobody should be left out.
Well that's just too funny. Of course you left out the "lower low end theory" board. Or we could just calll it Behringer Board for short.

-Rich
#26
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I've always thought of "So much gear..." as a sort of "middle-ground" forum..
For instance, I have low-end gear and just a few high-end pieces and I feel more at home in "So much gear...". I'm happy as a listening student in the high-end forum, but don't really feel like I belong in the low-end forum... I've decided that I don't want to make compromises anymore when it comes to gear.
I know, maybe I'm being elitist or something
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#27
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post

You'd be suprised. Sure, you don't get the fancy wood box or the fancy finish on the mic body, or the name recodnition.

But, with the right selection, proper technique, and something worth recording - you can get great recordings with a handful of $300 mics. I'm not sure that was possible 10 years ago, but $300 can get you a really nice mic today.

-tINY

Completely agree with Tiny. It's so dependent on source, e.g the singer, as well as a host of other smaller issues.

Case in point: I had the great fortune of being able to record one song inside Capitol Record's Recording Studio. I was doing a remake of Don't Fear the Reaper for the Six Feet Under Series (they ultimately went with the original over our remake).

But the cool thing was I was able to record on the (i believe, correct me if I'm wrong) U47; the same one, used by Frank, Bing etc. It was in all the pictures along the wall. Just crazy.

Now, I imagine that if I was singing something softer, it might had sounded nice. But on my voice, the diaphragm just sounded like it was folding under the pressure. The mic literally sounded poor.

Who knows how much that puppy would be worth on the open market, but on some voices (I'm guessing vox with significant SPL) it works and some it doesn't.

And I've recently sang on that Studio Projects C1 that was surprisingly good. As well, believe or not my trusty AKG 451b. If you have a vocal that cuts, that mic rocks.
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#28
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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I remember browsing through the post entitled "Show us your low end room" and was absolutely horrified at what I saw. If we can't have a medium-end theory thread, then let's have a beg, borrow, steal thread or bedroom studio thread for people like me. The reason I like the low-end thread, is that I often get to hear of great people doing amazing things with affordable gear.
#29
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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i always thought of this site as a high end site.. people that love recording gear and want to talk about it. "low end" here WAS higher than complete beginner.
people that don't know how to use a preamp should be posting at homerecording.com or something similar. just look at how many completely misguided threads there are lately with people saying "neve" as if its the holy grail of audio and don't understand that you can make a good recording with just about anything.
#30
31st January 2008
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY View Post
But how can I get good results, not have to throw out year-old gear, and have enough money left to feed my family and drink good beer?

GOOD equipment.....CHEAP beer.
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