KRK Systems - ERGO Room Correction
nms
#841
27th October 2011
Old 27th October 2011
  #841
nms
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Yes it's loud but not so loud you worry about speaker damage. The mic could be the prob. Are your monitors pointed properly at the mix position mic placement? Not excessively far apart?

On a sep note, can any of you play a piece of audio with reasonably clear waveforms thru ergo on "bypass", record the output, then look at the respective waves in comparison in a wave editor and tell me that doesn't freak you out a bit? Kick drums for instance.
#842
28th October 2011
Old 28th October 2011
  #842
Gear interested
 

Hey guys,

George - thanks heaps, I'll try another cable when I get home tonight and see if it makes a difference. If not I'll send you a PM, I really appreciate your help as I am so keen to try the Ergo out.

nms - Yeah I had the speaker pointing towards the mic and they are in a nearfield position, so pretty close.

Would there be an average spl reading that I could measure for how loud it should be? When I get home i'll measure how loud it is when hitting -17db

Thanks

Snabbit
#843
28th October 2011
Old 28th October 2011
  #843
Gear interested
 

Hey everyone, I solved it. The mic lead that was sent with the unit was unbalanced and obviously the wrong one. I tried a balanced lead and the level is fine now.

Thanks heaps to all you guys for helping me out, replying so quickly, and George for offering to help me out getting a new mic. It's a really awesome community here.

Time to finally try this out! I'll report back once I've calibrated it and had a mix..

Snabbit
#844
28th October 2011
Old 28th October 2011
  #844
Gear interested
 

OK, first impressions.

I have a temp setup atm while I wait for my GIK shipment to arrive by boat to Australia. There's a few home made basstraps (acoustisorb 3 50mm) and some foam hung in the first reflection points. I also just got some Primeacoustic recoil stabilizers which have made a huge difference to the mids and stereo imaging of my NS10's.

I tested the room with Room EQ Wizard and a Behringer ECM8000 and there was a huge dip around 90Hz (so bad the frequency actually sounded like it disappeared). After calibrating the Ergo, and A/Bing it on and off, there was still a dip however I could hear the 90Hz frequency range more clearly. Overall the bass was a lot clearer and defined, so on first impressions I think it has made a significant improvement. Once get my proper treatment, I'm hoping it will be the icing on the cake.

Thanks

Snabbit
#845
20th November 2011
Old 20th November 2011
  #845
Gear interested
 

Back again!
I tried calibrating a few times yesterday. Normally I get as high a percentage as possible. Tried to accept the room measurment as soon as it offered enough but it just hung there, saying it was processing or something but never completed the calibration process and so the calibrate button would flash. No audio. Bah.
Any ideas? I'm pretty sure I don't have the latest firmware so could try that.
Thanks. Thistle.
nms
#846
20th November 2011
Old 20th November 2011
  #846
nms
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I've had that happen before but I forget what caused it. I think restarting the ergo box and software before calibrating is a good idea though. You guys should keep in mind that even moving the mic forward or back a few inches can change the sound. I usually stick a piece of tape on the floor to mark the mic position for the mix spot and do 2 calibrations then swap between them to pick which one sounds best. Usually the second one is 3" back. You can run right mark audio analyzer though and get a reading of the EQ curve to compare and reference as well.
#847
20th November 2011
Old 20th November 2011
  #847
Gear nut
 

Maybe calibrate button

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleblower View Post
Back again!
I tried calibrating a few times yesterday. Normally I get as high a percentage as possible. Tried to accept the room measurment as soon as it offered enough but it just hung there, saying it was processing or something but never completed the calibration process and so the calibrate button would flash. No audio. Bah.
Any ideas? I'm pretty sure I don't have the latest firmware so could try that.
Thanks. Thistle.
The units I have seen make pops when calculating. Tried once to fix by releasing the CAL button before calculating. Screwed it up.
Try cycling the power to the Ergo and computer to see if that fixes this issue.


George
#848
20th November 2011
Old 20th November 2011
  #848
Gear interested
 

Thanks guys. I did cycle it a couple of times. I even left it off for ages in case it was a heat thing (had been on solid for a couple of days, which is a bit unusual).
Hopefully it will 'come right'. Will let you know if I figure out what was causing the issue.
Cheers. Thistle.
#849
20th November 2011
Old 20th November 2011
  #849
The most likely issue is the FW cable. They break all the time, and not all at once. Symptoms can be intermittent and random. 2nd most likely place is FW ports. Try both on the ERGO. Try a different computer, etc.

ERGOs don't overheat. I leave mine on for days sometimes. Might be a bad PSU too. Good luck!
#850
21st November 2011
Old 21st November 2011
  #850
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Good suggestions. Thanks Pier.
#851
21st November 2011
Old 21st November 2011
  #851
Gear interested
 

Reconnected (the same) cable but used the FW port further away from the psu connector and it worked. I heard the clicks you were referring to. Can't recall them last time, or ever before, actually, but it may have been I wasn't listening for them.
Perhaps it was all assisted by a long rest for the unit and PC, too?
Thanks. Thistle.
#852
22nd November 2011
Old 22nd November 2011
  #852
Gear nut
 

Those FW ports can be flaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleblower View Post
Reconnected (the same) cable but used the FW port further away from the psu connector and it worked. I heard the clicks you were referring to. Can't recall them last time, or ever before, actually, but it may have been I wasn't listening for them.
Perhaps it was all assisted by a long rest for the unit and PC, too?
Thanks. Thistle.
I have fought those FW ports on a couple. My first Ergo made stange noises. After KRK said it was cable related, it really appeared to be cheap FW cable. But later figured out it was the FW port closest to the power switch. So always used the other port.
Since I use three monitor systems recalibrating when switching speakers was a pain. So got another, then another. One did not work period if plugged in the port furthest from the switch.
I have never seen bad FW ports on computers or drives. But have only used FW to connect interface to computer.


George
#853
1st December 2011
Old 1st December 2011
  #853
Gear interested
 

Hi alk. I see you have some knowledge of the Ergo crossover settings. Has anyone been able to confirm that it in fact only stores three points: 40, 60 and 120, or whether you can in fact accruately set it to say, 80Hz and store that? Also, do you have to re-run calibration after changing the crossover point in order for it to properly take effect?
Cheers. Thistle.
#854
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #854
Gear interested
 

KRK's response:
Hello,

Once you set the freq and disconnect the unit from the computer it retains those settings.

I have not heard of the ERGO defaulting to another freq when adjusted. Perhaps the older software but the new one is selectable and stays where left.

Just for sanity I would CAL then play around with the crossover freq selection and then Recal with the last Crossover freq selected.

*Note there is one small bug that after you change the freq crossover and close the control panel and re open it states a different freq setting like 120hz. This is just a bug. It retains the last setting from when the crossover fader setting is moved
#855
2nd December 2011
Old 2nd December 2011
  #855
Gear nut
 

That is another eye opener

So the selected setting is correct? I thought in my case I was stuck with 59.8 Hz. The next one is 120 Hz and way too high. I wanted 65 -70 Hz.
I have no idea where mine are. It required 40-60 Hz selection for the to get 59.8 Hz after CAL. Time to recal with 70 Hz as the crossover.

George
#856
7th December 2011
Old 7th December 2011
  #856
Gear interested
 

Hi George. It seemed to work for me. Are you saying you measured 59.8 after setting between 40-60 Hz? How did you go with 70? Ta. Thistle.
#857
9th December 2011
Old 9th December 2011
  #857
Gear nut
 

Guess it is a software glitch

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistleblower View Post
Hi George. It seemed to work for me. Are you saying you measured 59.8 after setting between 40-60 Hz? How did you go with 70? Ta. Thistle.
With the latest Mac fireware and driver the Ergo acted like there were only three crossover frequencies. You could select whatever X - over point desired. But after running cal the crossover frequency displayed would change.
If the selected frequency was <40 Hz the displayed Xf was 40, if between 40 and 60 the Xf showed as 59.8 Hz. Then 60 to 120 displayed as 120 Hz.
I like to run mine at 60 - 65 Hz. But Ithought it was shifting to 120. So Iwould select around 55 Hz to get 59.8.
Now I read to ignore the displayed crossover frequency.Did my Blue Sky Ststem Ones at 70 Hz and does not sound like 120 is used. Need to measure to see.

George
#858
14th December 2011
Old 14th December 2011
  #858
Gear interested
 

hi there,

Im new Ergo user, I have VXT6 + KRK sub + ergo

I cant understand how to deal with crossover frequency regulator on ergo's control panel - each time I change it and close\reopen the panel it comes back to the previous number. are there any ideas?

And how crossover freq regulators on the sub and on egros control panel now interact? should they have the same amount? or these regulators are mutually exclusive and one prevails the other?


my second issue is that when connecting monitors to A ergo output and sub to B\sub output bass goes to very low level. I havent tried connecting sub to A output and then monitors to sub (usual sub+monitors setup without ergo) yet but currently I suspect cables going to sub. have someone experienced such bass problem? maybe connecting a sub to separate ergo output is not good for some reason and its better to connect monitors to ergo via sub?

And are there disadvantages for resulting performace of ergo if I use it as interface as well instead of my Echo audiofire 2?

please help!

thanks a lot
nms
#859
14th December 2011
Old 14th December 2011
  #859
nms
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Don't worry about the crossover frequency reverting on reopen. If you close it with the right setting it stays.. At least til next reopen. You should update the firmware.. This might fix that I think.

Read the manual for help with sub setup. set your sub at either 50 or 80. The VXT drivers are nicer than the sub so keep them doing most of the work.. You just want a bit of extension help on the lowest freqs.
#860
14th December 2011
Old 14th December 2011
  #860
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Don't worry about the crossover frequency reverting on reopen. If you close it with the right setting it stays.. At least til next reopen. You should update the firmware.. This might fix that I think.

Read the manual for help with sub setup. set your sub at either 50 or 80. The VXT drivers are nicer than the sub so keep them doing most of the work.. You just want a bit of extension help on the lowest freqs.
thanks for the advice. I've set up my system and measured the room, the result sounded fine to me, I've played with it for several hours. Then decided to update the firmware but after updating firewire signal to egro dissapeared, all buttons and indicators went dark so now only main volume and headphones VOl knobs are lit and nothing happens - no sound. I've also tried to reinstall drivers but no result. To summarise now ergo has powersupply via firewire but PC doesnt see ergo as device. I run winXP

I've tried different cables, different FW ports - the problem shouldnt be with them as I have powercore firewire and it works as usual without any bugs. Power supply is going through firewire but ergo doesnt work. Ergo looks like it has died what it can be?????

another bug I faced is constant and very strong crackle in nuendo in the project i'm working on now whereas my audiofire 2 done well with it. I've tried different delay times up to 20ms (ergos maximum) but crackle is still exist and its quite strong.
nms
#861
14th December 2011
Old 14th December 2011
  #861
nms
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Time to email tech support!
#862
15th December 2011
Old 15th December 2011
  #862
Gear interested
 

tech support was fast but useless about the issue with ergo went wrong after doing firmware. Guy said I should do firmware again but I cant do that because my egro is not detected by computer (PC - tried 2 different machines). they have no answer about that..

by the way when ergo is not connected to computer are indicators and buttons on front panel are lit? mine are dark and dont reackt at all...
nms
#863
15th December 2011
Old 15th December 2011
  #863
nms
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Yes it should definitely light up. Are you sure your fw cable is good? Does it light up when you plug in the AC power?
#864
15th December 2011
Old 15th December 2011
  #864
Gear interested
 

irrespectively of power supply via Firewire or AC only volume knobs (main and phones) are light up, all other knobs and indicators are dark and show nothing all the time

I've checked 3 FW cables - they're all working on other devices on this particular PC.

Finally has gaven the device to service company, lets see how its going - will report about the results.
In KRK support Carlito said "It seems like in your attempt to upgrade the unit it may have messed up the firmware. The old (1.10 R2 version that is downloadable from KRKSYS.com) firmware needs to continue to be tried in order for it to see it"
#865
15th December 2011
Old 15th December 2011
  #865
Gear interested
 

this also may be useful for some embarrased Ergo newbie))

Problem: @sub crossover frequency on control panel cannot be fixed in the place I want - after closing/reopening control panel it always gets back to 58.9 hz or smth like that@
KRK support: @This is a known issue. It is just a bug and does not effect performance it just reads a different preset but it does stay at the last preset it was moved to@

Problem: @I checked Ergo in my old Nuendo 3 in the project I currently working on and faced A LOT OF clicks and crackle, actually the whole sound is like one big click (very noisy), I've increased delay time on control panel of Ergo up to 20 ms (its max) but the problem still exists although the amount of crackle became a bit less. And thats not my PC's problem- my ECHO Audiofire 2 deals perfectly with that, never had such problems@

KRK support:@You may need to use it in standalone mode. I don’t know why the interface does not react like your old system but it was an issue with the buffer in nuendo and not the ergo control panel@
#866
16th December 2011
Old 16th December 2011
  #866
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima_ds View Post
thanks for the advice. I've set up my system and measured the room, the result sounded fine to me, I've played with it for several hours. Then decided to update the firmware but after updating firewire signal to egro dissapeared, all buttons and indicators went dark so now only main volume and headphones VOl knobs are lit and nothing happens - no sound. I've also tried to reinstall drivers but no result. To summarise now ergo has powersupply via firewire but PC doesnt see ergo as device. I run winXP

I've tried different cables, different FW ports - the problem shouldnt be with them as I have powercore firewire and it works as usual without any bugs. Power supply is going through firewire but ergo doesnt work. Ergo looks like it has died what it can be?????

another bug I faced is constant and very strong crackle in nuendo in the project i'm working on now whereas my audiofire 2 done well with it. I've tried different delay times up to 20ms (ergos maximum) but crackle is still exist and its quite strong.

I killed one trying to roll back firmware. This was a Mac. Same thing as yours, lights went out. Sent it to KRK and they replaced it. No charge.

George
#867
16th December 2011
Old 16th December 2011
  #867
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panelhead View Post
I killed one trying to roll back firmware. This was a Mac. Same thing as yours, lights went out. Sent it to KRK and they replaced it. No charge.
The chance that ergo died is my biggest concern as I'm in Russia but ordered ergo from US so even if thats bug of ergo its replacement looks like a problem...

Carlito in KRK support reffered to one KRK user who cant reach his ergo via firewire, as I understood user couldnt do firmware becuse PC didnt see ergo.. thats how he managed to resolve the issue

@I just thought to try the old one updater 1.10 R2, that seems to ignore all my attempts before, but now it showed me Reprogram! I didn’t believe, but it was not a joke. I pressed reprogram – the Updater began and failed! But! It showed me again Reprogram button. I pressed it again and it again failed, but this time it progressed more! And again the reprogram button appeared. The third time I pressed it and ... success!!! Finally it made ERGO work as there was nothing terrible. That’s absolutely fantastic and super strange, the chances of such things are close to zero.@
#868
22nd December 2011
Old 22nd December 2011
  #868
Gear interested
 

I have update about my problem described earlier on the thread:

I want to remind: as the result of firmware update my ergo literally died - lights from indicators and buttons went out, device wasnt detected by PC and only volume knobs were light up.

In KRK support the guy said it looks like firmware mess up and I should try to awake ergo with older firmware.

I couldnt restore the device myself, may be because I use PC or I dont have a lot of experience in dealing such bugs. So as the last chance to awake it I went to local service repairing pro audio equipment

And finally they managed to update the firmware! they said that it was possible only on Mac and only with the old firmware version. I havent caught how exactly they managed to do it as the device wasnt detected properly by Mac as well but now its working.

Also they said I shouldnt try to update the firmare any more as the result may be the same firmware mess.

Although now I use device with old firmware I cant see any difference between old and new one. Is there any difference actually?

Moreover the device became more stable in Nuendo 3 and I managed to adjust it and Nuendo so there is no any clicks and playback problems even in "CPU heavy" projects .Exactly I increased latency on Ergo up to 20 ms + made some tweaks in VST engine preferences of Nuendo. So now its working as interface and do it fine.
#869
23rd December 2011
Old 23rd December 2011
  #869
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dima_ds View Post
I have update about my problem described earlier on the thread:

I want to remind: as the result of firmware update my ergo literally died - lights from indicators and buttons went out, device wasnt detected by PC and only volume knobs were light up.

In KRK support the guy said it looks like firmware mess up and I should try to awake ergo with older firmware.

I couldnt restore the device myself, may be because I use PC or I dont have a lot of experience in dealing such bugs. So as the last chance to awake it I went to local service repairing pro audio equipment

And finally they managed to update the firmware! they said that it was possible only on Mac and only with the old firmware version. I havent caught how exactly they managed to do it as the device wasnt detected properly by Mac as well but now its working.

Also they said I shouldnt try to update the firmare any more as the result may be the same firmware mess.

Although now I use device with old firmware I cant see any difference between old and new one. Is there any difference actually?

Moreover the device became more stable in Nuendo 3 and I managed to adjust it and Nuendo so there is no any clicks and playback problems even in "CPU heavy" projects .Exactly I increased latency on Ergo up to 20 ms + made some tweaks in VST engine preferences of Nuendo. So now its working as interface and do it fine.
Guess I should have tried that myself. Changing the firmware can be a real issue. Glad you are up and running again!

George
#870
24th December 2011
Old 24th December 2011
  #870
Gear interested
 

Actually I hoped just a little that the device can go right again, as I was almost sure that some chip inside is burned. But guy from the service said it almost impossible to burn it and usually all such problems are just because of firmware mess.
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