Sonic difference between cheap and more expensive MIC CABLES? - Page 4

JimmyM · 10th February 2008, 07:53 PM

I always buy the cables that are on sale...why? Because in 30 years of being a pro musician, I have never heard a single bit of difference in cables no matter how much they cost, and I think the vast majority of high end cables rely on voodoo as a selling point. Better construction is a good selling point, but tonally, I'd be very surirpsed if someone could tell the difference between a $100 cable and a $20 cable in a blind test.

mslim · 11th February 2008, 12:04 AM

Okay I'm sold. I'm going to fire up my new Hakko and make some mic cables. I checked Redco and I am a little bewildered by the number of choices offered in their XLR line. Neutriks or ugly dependable old Switchcrafts? Redco generics?

Say I wanted the gold contacts, which part #'s should I order?

female: NC3FX-B
male: NC3MX-B

What about the double XX's? What's up wid dat? Any advantage. Easy soldering sounds good. I am frugal with my dough but I don't want to buy short either.

ImJohn · 11th February 2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mslim

Okay I'm sold. I'm going to fire up my new Hakko and make some mic cables. I checked Redco and I am a little bewildered by the number of choices offered in their XLR line. Neutriks or ugly dependable old Switchcrafts? Redco generics?

Say I wanted the gold contacts, which part #'s should I order?

female: NC3FX-B
male: NC3MX-B

What about the double XX's? What's up wid dat? Any advantage. Easy soldering sounds good. I am frugal with my dough but I don't want to buy short either.

Hakko rawks! (I have the 936

)

More info here on Neutrik.

I'd just go with the regular old X series, they work great. I've never tried the XX series so i don't know the difference but since they are pretty much the same price, why not get one of each and decide for yourself before buying a box of them.

While I don't think the interaction of dissimilar metals is particularly critical on this type of audio connection, you should look at all of your gear and see if the connectors have silver or gold contacts. If they are all or mostly silver (which I'm guessing they are) maybe you should consider saving yourself a buck per connector and potentially have better connections in the long run.

best of luck!

Francis Vaughan · 11th February 2008, 01:03 AM

Quote:

A few stayed on the shelf for several months before I needed them, and they were so black I trashed them and vowed never to use a silver switch again.

Hmmm, this isn't oxidation. Sadly modern life has a lot to answer for. I greatly suspect you have some other atmospheric contaminant causing grief. Sulphur compounds especially, but also chlorides. I have seen out-gassing products from unstable plastics cause problems, rubber going unstable can be a big problem too. That plus some cities are just plain unfriendly to silver. Nothing like a nearby coal fired power station to blacken every bit of silver for many miles around. This is why good silver jewellery is rhodium plated. Rhodium is a platenide, and pretty close to inert, but has the the same lustre as silver. Better switch contacts will use rhodium, platinum or an alloy of the two anyway. Since rhodium looks like silver there may some source of confusion too. But rhodium will never tarnish. More expensive however. Much more expensive.

VuucuuV · 22nd February 2008, 07:09 AM

so is redco the best place to buy if we're making our own cables?
I found this Neutrik NP3CX Slim Line Stereo Plug TRS plug at AudioAdapter.com doesn't look Redco has, and AA seems a lot cheaper on the plugs but more expensive on the cable--and no idea what either charge for shipping.
thanks!

Crowley · 22nd February 2008, 12:03 PM

Silver can be cleaned up so you don't actually have to toss out black oxidized silver contacts. Clean them.

I have done extensive testing of cables, alloys, contact materials and other conductors and looked at conductivity and noise. For short runs it is true that in most applications the sound difference is indiscernible.

On longer runs, resistive losses can add up. Heavier gage is better. Full shield is better than partial shield, but costs more. Jackets without sticky,oozing plasticizer are better than oily cables that affect finishes and gunk up everything.

Contacts are very important. The contact of dissimilar metals over time can make some interesting semiconducting junctions, but it is rare. More likely resistance can manifest itself as a slight increase in noise. I have found no difference between the good quality XLR makers in performance, though Switchcraft is fairly ugly looking.

On long runs, the quality of cable and connectors becomes much more noticeable. The loss as a function of length is directly affected by the wire gage. Bigger is better. Noise too is greater on long runs, so heavy shielding, double shielding, is better. Assembly by people who know what they are doing is also a factor in assuring it won't quit or degrade at some critical moment.

Cheap XLR housings have plastic which is piezoelectric. Try listening to the unterminated end of an XLR with headphones on and tap the connector. A cheap one will pick up the sound like a microphone.

So, if your time is valuable and especially if you have longer runs, the better, heavy gage, well shielded cables will be better, but cost much more. I don't sell cables because the stores get them at low cost and have a good markup on them, and there are plenty of high quality cable suppliers. It can be costly, but think of how much the other stuff costs.

Bob

Latest News from Crowley and Tripp's Lab: Search results for noise

andy_simpson · 22nd February 2008, 08:13 PM

As I mentioned in the thread over in the 'gear-shoot-outs / sound-file-comparisons' board, the best connection is direct to the pre-amp, where practical.

Vovox Mic Cable vs Standard Mic Cable spoken-word test (WAV's posted) - you decide!

The best result I ever got was on soldering the output transformer of the microphone directly to the pre-amp input.

This is a semi permanent thing to do and is massively impractical but for those who are willing to go to great lengths for sound quality, this can be fun.

Andy

VuucuuV · 25th February 2008, 02:46 AM

i don't really think Vovox is a cable that should be discussed in this "Low End Theory" forum.
So if I were to build my own, I'm gathering that Canare is better than Mogami?
and the best place to buy from? redco? redco kinda sucks as i can't tell what the shipping will be(or i missed it?) until i give them all my info so that ain't good, other than that they have a nice site but seem kinda high on some things...and some depend on shipping costs.

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22nd February 2008, 12:03 PM	#96
Crowley Gear nut Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 126	Silver can be cleaned up so you don't actually have to toss out black oxidized silver contacts. Clean them. I have done extensive testing of cables, alloys, contact materials and other conductors and looked at conductivity and noise. For short runs it is true that in most applications the sound difference is indiscernible. On longer runs, resistive losses can add up. Heavier gage is better. Full shield is better than partial shield, but costs more. Jackets without sticky,oozing plasticizer are better than oily cables that affect finishes and gunk up everything. Contacts are very important. The contact of dissimilar metals over time can make some interesting semiconducting junctions, but it is rare. More likely resistance can manifest itself as a slight increase in noise. I have found no difference between the good quality XLR makers in performance, though Switchcraft is fairly ugly looking. On long runs, the quality of cable and connectors becomes much more noticeable. The loss as a function of length is directly affected by the wire gage. Bigger is better. Noise too is greater on long runs, so heavy shielding, double shielding, is better. Assembly by people who know what they are doing is also a factor in assuring it won't quit or degrade at some critical moment. Cheap XLR housings have plastic which is piezoelectric. Try listening to the unterminated end of an XLR with headphones on and tap the connector. A cheap one will pick up the sound like a microphone. So, if your time is valuable and especially if you have longer runs, the better, heavy gage, well shielded cables will be better, but cost much more. I don't sell cables because the stores get them at low cost and have a good markup on them, and there are plenty of high quality cable suppliers. It can be costly, but think of how much the other stuff costs. Bob Latest News from Crowley and Tripp's Lab: Search results for noise Last edited by Crowley; 22nd February 2008 at 12:15 PM.. Reason: bd typing skls

22nd February 2008, 08:13 PM	#97
andy_simpson Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Poland Posts: 540	As I mentioned in the thread over in the 'gear-shoot-outs / sound-file-comparisons' board, the best connection is direct to the pre-amp, where practical. Vovox Mic Cable vs Standard Mic Cable spoken-word test (WAV's posted) - you decide! The best result I ever got was on soldering the output transformer of the microphone directly to the pre-amp input. This is a semi permanent thing to do and is massively impractical but for those who are willing to go to great lengths for sound quality, this can be fun. Andy __________________ -------- www.SimpsonMicrophones.com - Next Generation Microphones Orchestra mp3 (DAV BG1 + Mytek) - Jazz (Sax) mp3 (DAV BG1 + Mytek) - Choir & Organ mp3 (Gordon IV + Mytek) Chamber Ensemble mp3 (DAV BG1 + Mytek) - Chamber Ensemble with vocals mp3 (DAV BG1 + Mytek) -

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10th February 2008, 07:53 PM	#91
JimmyM Gear nut Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sanford, FL Posts: 148	I always buy the cables that are on sale...why? Because in 30 years of being a pro musician, I have never heard a single bit of difference in cables no matter how much they cost, and I think the vast majority of high end cables rely on voodoo as a selling point. Better construction is a good selling point, but tonally, I'd be very surirpsed if someone could tell the difference between a $100 cable and a $20 cable in a blind test.

11th February 2008, 12:04 AM	#92
mslim Gear nut Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Just north of Shakeytown Posts: 77	Okay I'm sold. I'm going to fire up my new Hakko and make some mic cables. I checked Redco and I am a little bewildered by the number of choices offered in their XLR line. Neutriks or ugly dependable old Switchcrafts? Redco generics? Say I wanted the gold contacts, which part #'s should I order? female: NC3FX-B male: NC3MX-B What about the double XX's? What's up wid dat? Any advantage. Easy soldering sounds good. I am frugal with my dough but I don't want to buy short either.

22nd February 2008, 07:09 AM	#95
VuucuuV Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 37	so is redco the best place to buy if we're making our own cables? I found this Neutrik NP3CX Slim Line Stereo Plug TRS plug at AudioAdapter.com doesn't look Redco has, and AA seems a lot cheaper on the plugs but more expensive on the cable--and no idea what either charge for shipping. thanks!

25th February 2008, 02:46 AM	#98
VuucuuV Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 37	i don't really think Vovox is a cable that should be discussed in this "Low End Theory" forum. So if I were to build my own, I'm gathering that Canare is better than Mogami? and the best place to buy from? redco? redco kinda sucks as i can't tell what the shipping will be(or i missed it?) until i give them all my info so that ain't good, other than that they have a nice site but seem kinda high on some things...and some depend on shipping costs.