Drum Mic Setup for $1000

[KidAce]

Hi,
I am looking to upgrade my home studio capabilities to being able to record drums at fairly nice quality. I only have experience recording myself, which i have been doing for 10 years now, but i have never done an extememly nice drum recording. Frankly, i know almost nothing about the tricks used in drum situations like pre-recording signal processers. It seems like compression is a huge part of drum recording. can someone explain in detail some of the most important things (gear related) to drum recording, and recomend a set of mics that fit my budget?
Also, what kind of track doubleing/panning tricks are most commonly used in drum situations?

I play indie/underwater rock music (maybe a little 80's influenced) and i recently upgraded to a motu 828 mkII for my PC, and use it with a behrenger mixer. Thanks in advance.

PS. I already own 2 shure SM57's.

[elninojesus]

Octava MC012 X2 $198
Shure Beta 52 $189
Sennheiser MD421 $329

$716

That and your 57's should get you going fine. Those are also new prices, you get that stuff on ebay and probably have $500 left over to maybe put towards something better than a berhinger board.



Mark

[warhead]

Kick: ATM25
Snare: SM57 (top)
Snare: SM57 (bottom)
Toms: ATM25
Overheads: (2) CAD M179

That gets you there.

War

[natpub]

Quite frankly, you can use a 57 on snare (mic it with one 57 from the side of the body of the snare, ala Fletcher), 57's on toms, an AKG D112 on kick, and the Oktavas overhead, and do just fine. Or go for one of the 3 mic variations, or 5 mic variations.

[brownmouse]

for fun i'll chime in....
kik/fok... sennheiser 421
snare.... shure sm57
overheads.... cad m177 (or m179) or maybe the oktava route...
with the leftover.... fmr rnp preamp
good luck,
joshua

[Jay Kahrs]

My minimal setup would be a mono overhead, a 57 on the snare and something in or just outside of the bass drum. Most likely a Beta 52 or 421 inside, outside would be a 414 B/ULS, AT4047 or an RE20. Move the mics around a bit and compress the mono overhead a bit and you should be 70-80% there unless it's hard rock or metal that needs to cut through a wall of guitars and synths. If you aren't close to a good sound fire the drummer.

[clan]

CAD has a set for 450,- (3xtom, 2xoh, kick)

what about that, supossed to eb good but it is? ( two sm57 and i would have everything coming in seperatly...) And i do metal mostly. kinda the meshuggah thing.

[KidAce]

Originally posted by elninojesus
Octava MC012 X2 $198
Shure Beta 52 $189
Sennheiser MD421 $329

Thanks for your help. In this config. would you use the sennheiser for the High Hat? and the 52 for the kick? also, what is the best polar patter for the overheads?
thanks a lot.
ace

[KidAce]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
fire the drummer.

I can't fire the drummer.
I'm stuck with me.
I just won't leave.

thanks for your help.
ace

[elninojesus]

Originally posted by KidAce
Thanks for your help. In this config. would you use the sennheiser for the High Hat? and the 52 for the kick? also, what is the best polar patter for the overheads?
thanks a lot.
ace

I would use em like this,

kick - Beta 52
snare - sm57
overheads - MC012
floor tom - sennheiser
rack tom - sm57


I personally detest hi hat mics. I use the octavas for overheads and I get way more than enough high hat in those. I would focus on getting the best kick, snare, overhead mics you can. I dont know what kind of drummers you are recording but I've never recorded a drummer with 3 toms and a few with only 1. It depends on what kind of a drum sound you want. I do mostly indie rock stuff where the kit is never that tight sounding, so I use very little toms and never hi hats. I'm mixing a session now that I didnt record the drums on and every time I bring up that hi hat fader it just sounds so unnecessary. So yeah, I would go in order of importance.


Mark

[KidAce]

Originally posted by elninojesus
I would use em like this...

thanks for all the help!

A Kid Named Ace

[KidAce]

this salesman guy at sweetwater is telling me the Oktavas are crap and want's to sell me a pair of AKG c1000's.

is he a joker? it's about the same price...

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by KidAce
this salesman guy at sweetwater is telling me the Oktavas are crap and want's to sell me a pair of AKG c1000's.

is he a joker? it's about the same price...

i'd stay away from the akg c-1000's....... but thats just me....
joshua

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by clan
CAD has a set for 450,- (3xtom, 2xoh, kick)

what about that, supossed to eb good but it is? ( two sm57 and i would have everything coming in seperatly...) And i do metal mostly. kinda the meshuggah thing.

the cad set is gonna be hit or miss.... either the kik mic will be perfect or nothing short of crap depending on the bass drum, etc... the tom/snare mics are ok... nothing great, the overheads also are hit or miss. i think you're better off not going the 'pre-pak' route. ymmv.
joshua

[warhead]

Originally posted by elninojesus
I personally detest hi hat mics.

Sometimes you just need it though, for dense rock mixes it can come in handy. I use a KSM32 on hi hat all the time and find myself using at least a little on most things.

War

[warhead]

Oh, and don't bother with that CAD kick mic. Yuck...it sounds like the response curve looks....boomy...maybe for hip hop but you have to eq the CRAP out of that thing to get anywhere near useable...

War

[Sugarnutz]

A matched pair of Crown CM-700's for OH's $450
AKG D-112 for kick $200 (another 57 will work here though)
3 Shure SM-57's for snare & toms $300

[jdier]

I personally like my oktava 012's. If you buy them on special, you can always dump them on ebay. they seem to hold their value for the most part.

I also like the beta 52 on kick, but more recently I have been preferring my D-112 which I got on ebay. I have been recording with the 52 in the kick and the 112 outside.

I also like my 57 on top of snare and have been using my beta57 on bottom to get some more crack.

Here:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/3/drsparkmusic.htm
you can hear my work in progress.. Go easy on me, everything you hear is scratch tracks except for the kit.

Most of what you hear is rough mixes used for picking which take to use so it is just the oktavas l-r, the 112 and the 57 top of snare.

[KidAce]

Originally posted by jdier
If you buy them on special, you can always dump them on ebay.

do you know where i can get them on special right now? I have only found the pair for about $400.


this thread and this website have sure been a great help.

Thanks everyone!

ace

[elninojesus]

You were probably looking at the ones from Sound Room. I would call every guitar center in your area and see who has em cuz they are supposed to stop selling them. The should be $99 each there. I found a matched pair at guitar center for $249 so that would probably be the best bet.



Mark

[jdier]

Originally posted by KidAce
do you know where i can get them on special right now? I have only found the pair for about $400.


this thread and this website have sure been a great help.

Thanks everyone!

ace

http://www.superpawn.com/product.asp...ct_id=1455839&

Harder to find than when I bought mine. Try ebay then keep searching using froogle. they seem to come and go on and off sale all the time. be patient and you will find them.

I have heard the the Studio Projects mics might be a nice choice too.

[clan]

thanks for your comments. I'll not go the CAD route.

Question though; I've used the D112 a couple of times but i can't get the click to get in there. (the metal, the Fear factory kinda click). Should i spent more time on placement? I tried EQíng the click in but i get nothing or after really heavy eqín (about 12 (!) dB) i get an annoying "whistle (sp?)". But never a nice click...

Help woudl be greatly appreciated,


Glenn

[jdier]

I am the wrong guy to ask about metal drums, but in general I would share these thoughts on the kick:

1. If you are boosting more that 6-8db of anything, it is a decent idea to try some different placements (especially with a decent mic.)

2. I ~think~ many metal drum kicks come from triggered samples.

3. (I do not record metal, but if I did, and I wanted that kick sound) I would try using the D112 right outside the hole of the kick to get a nice full sound then stick a 57 or the like deep inside the kick right behind the beater, or maybe even put it on the beater side.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[clan]

Thanks!

but the point is; i want the plastic side of the beater for click and the velvet side of the beater for body... I too are thinking about smaplews but it can be done with mic's cuz i was there when someone did it. Any help with the placement woudl be appreciated.

clan

[brownmouse]

Originally posted by clan
thanks for your comments. I'll not go the CAD route.

Question though; I've used the D112 a couple of times but i can't get the click to get in there. (the metal, the Fear factory kinda click). Should i spent more time on placement? I tried EQíng the click in but i get nothing or after really heavy eqín (about 12 (!) dB) i get an annoying "whistle (sp?)". But never a nice click...

Help woudl be greatly appreciated,


Glenn

try a wood beater... and yes,placement is key.
good luck,
joshua

[LaserGrl]

If you want that little percussive click on the bass drum in your recordings, try a wood beater, or, less expensively, try experimenting with taping a quarter or half-dollar to the bass drum head at the spot where the beater hits. Don't be afraid to experiment with different things to get the sound you are after -- getting a particular sound doesn't neccesarily mean running out to the store to buy some expensive new piece of gear.

[KidAce]

Originally posted by elninojesus
You were probably looking at the ones from Sound Room. I would call every guitar center in your area and see who has em cuz they are supposed to stop selling them. The should be $99 each there.

Mark

I called a GC and they have some Octava MK012's in stock, but no MC012's in stock.
i guess there isn't any real difference in these two models?

ace

[elninojesus]

Originally posted by KidAce
I called a GC and they have some Octava MK012's in stock, but no MC012's in stock.
i guess there isn't any real difference in these two models?

ace

THey are the same mic. Leave it to GC to tell you that.



Mark

[JohnnyTooLoud]

I've never heard a C1000 sound good.

And I get plenty of click from the D112. Proper placement, right beater, and some EQ boost around 3k.

Good luck.

---Giovanni

[clan]

I will try harder LOL

Thansk for your comments!

Clan