Inexpensive EQs - Damaging to sound?

crufty · 17th January 2008

Hi everyone,

I am just starting down the road of the production side of music. While my "musicianship" is definitely a question, there's no question I have zero mixing experience. When the time comes, I plan to take my outputs to a real engineer and let them work their magic. I won't pretend to be a commercial success, this probably won't amount to more then audio masturbation, but I do enjoy it, as do a few of my friends, and I suppose that counts for something.

Until then...my "style"is acid house, 100% analog otb, with a lot of squelching (love it love it love it). However, when doing filter sweeps, some of my synths are producing really grating high end in the 3-4k range that is getting tough to listen to. So while I'm content to leave the mixing to the masters, I really need to tone down a few tracks to save my ears, if nothing else!

Budget is an issue, but in the synth world, if you want the sound of XYZ you need to get the XYZ. Is the true same for EQ? All I really need to do is keep the high pitch chirp at that range from killing my monitors / headphones / ear drums etc. I can post a sample if that will help...it is freaking annoying the piss out of me.

At the same time purity and music quality of signal is also very important to me. The air around that frequency is very rubbery and it is critical I keep as much of it as possible--I noticed this in playing around with samples in Logic. If I pick up a ALTO-Q, Speck, Orban, Aphex, DBX etc low end EQ will I be disappointed? When I cut the chirp @3.2 and narrow Q by 4DB, will I notice issues if done on a mono channel? Would I be better off forgoing the analog device chain and do the mixing itb? Or should I save up for a neve / mid range eq, or even a high end one?

I don't really want to drop a lot of cash on processing--i'd rather have more instruments, and I don't do enough mixing to make it worthwhile. I think I wouldn't be able to use the high end stuff effectively at this point. BUT--I'm not afraid of it, if thats what it takes, i can collect cans and wait with the best of them

Thanks in advance for any tips and real world advice. Right now I'm leaning towards an alto-q because i can get one new (I'm not a fan of the e-bay stress), and the neve portico is intriguing to the gear slut inside, but will welcome and consider all advice!

crufty · 19th January 2008

Ok, so a bit to noobish a request. Or perhaps the answer is obvious?

Anyway, $59 later, I am the proud owner of a behringer ultra-q pro peq-2200. Poifect.

Up front notice: the box hums and vibrates. Wow, I can feel the powah already!

I've recorded a sample problematic bassline 3 times. I know it's not as scientific as using the same loop, but can't be helped--I couldn't get the multiple outs to work.

Audio chains:
AU 1: FR-777 -> Virus TI mono in (48 khz / 16 bit) -> Logic
AU 2: FR-777 -> PEQ2200 / audio in-out routing mode (ie eq off) -> Virus TI -> Logic
AU 3: FR-777 -> PEQ2200 w/chan 4 on @ 2.7khz, 1.2 Q w/-5db Cut -> Virus TI -> Logic

In Logic, applied a platinum verb to bus 2, and the channel eq / fat eq to bus 1. All eqs are set with identical settings as the PEQ2200. Master out has multimeter applied.

NOTE: The logic verbs are not my favorite, I prefer my inexpensive outboard. Also, while there are more AU EQ's avail (Sonnox / Waves / etc) I'm focusing on Logic itb for now as a baseline compare. If the PEQ sounded like crap, there'd be no need to continue! But for now, it sounds pretty good.

Bus setups:
AU1: eq -> verb -> master out
AU2: eq -> verb -> master out
AU3: verb -> master out

So far, my initial listening show the Fat EQ / PEQ2200 to sound better then the Channel EQ. Fat EQ, after repeated listening (and man, there is a stray note in the loop that is just killing me) seems to have a little something more to it then the PEQ2200, but I haven't narrowed it down. Could by psychosomatic.

Overall though, I am pleased with the PEQ2200. It hasn't destroyed the signal in any qualitative fashion. There seems to be a tiny less burble, but I am not sure...it could just be my imagination. The bassline is acid sawtooth and the typical shredding sawtooth sound is less pronounced in the PEQ2200, but when I compare notes across the tracks I can't tell the difference. I'll continue my unscientific analysis and post the samples if anyone cares, maybe folks can run it through their own eq setups and compare!

EstateMatt · 19th January 2008

depending on the dropoff of your filter, you might be distorting your signal when you get to that range?
(see here)

17th January 2008	#1
crufty Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Home Enthusiasm Posts: 3,743 Thread Starter 5 Reviews written	Inexpensive EQs - Damaging to sound? Hi everyone, I am just starting down the road of the production side of music. While my "musicianship" is definitely a question, there's no question I have zero mixing experience. When the time comes, I plan to take my outputs to a real engineer and let them work their magic. I won't pretend to be a commercial success, this probably won't amount to more then audio masturbation, but I do enjoy it, as do a few of my friends, and I suppose that counts for something. Until then...my "style"is acid house, 100% analog otb, with a lot of squelching (love it love it love it). However, when doing filter sweeps, some of my synths are producing really grating high end in the 3-4k range that is getting tough to listen to. So while I'm content to leave the mixing to the masters, I really need to tone down a few tracks to save my ears, if nothing else! Budget is an issue, but in the synth world, if you want the sound of XYZ you need to get the XYZ. Is the true same for EQ? All I really need to do is keep the high pitch chirp at that range from killing my monitors / headphones / ear drums etc. I can post a sample if that will help...it is freaking annoying the piss out of me. At the same time purity and music quality of signal is also very important to me. The air around that frequency is very rubbery and it is critical I keep as much of it as possible--I noticed this in playing around with samples in Logic. If I pick up a ALTO-Q, Speck, Orban, Aphex, DBX etc low end EQ will I be disappointed? When I cut the chirp @3.2 and narrow Q by 4DB, will I notice issues if done on a mono channel? Would I be better off forgoing the analog device chain and do the mixing itb? Or should I save up for a neve / mid range eq, or even a high end one? I don't really want to drop a lot of cash on processing--i'd rather have more instruments, and I don't do enough mixing to make it worthwhile. I think I wouldn't be able to use the high end stuff effectively at this point. BUT--I'm not afraid of it, if thats what it takes, i can collect cans and wait with the best of them Thanks in advance for any tips and real world advice. Right now I'm leaning towards an alto-q because i can get one new (I'm not a fan of the e-bay stress), and the neve portico is intriguing to the gear slut inside, but will welcome and consider all advice!

19th January 2008	#2
crufty Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Home Enthusiasm Posts: 3,743 Thread Starter 5 Reviews written	Ok, so a bit to noobish a request. Or perhaps the answer is obvious? Anyway, $59 later, I am the proud owner of a behringer ultra-q pro peq-2200. Poifect. Up front notice: the box hums and vibrates. Wow, I can feel the powah already! I've recorded a sample problematic bassline 3 times. I know it's not as scientific as using the same loop, but can't be helped--I couldn't get the multiple outs to work. Audio chains: AU 1: FR-777 -> Virus TI mono in (48 khz / 16 bit) -> Logic AU 2: FR-777 -> PEQ2200 / audio in-out routing mode (ie eq off) -> Virus TI -> Logic AU 3: FR-777 -> PEQ2200 w/chan 4 on @ 2.7khz, 1.2 Q w/-5db Cut -> Virus TI -> Logic In Logic, applied a platinum verb to bus 2, and the channel eq / fat eq to bus 1. All eqs are set with identical settings as the PEQ2200. Master out has multimeter applied. NOTE: The logic verbs are not my favorite, I prefer my inexpensive outboard. Also, while there are more AU EQ's avail (Sonnox / Waves / etc) I'm focusing on Logic itb for now as a baseline compare. If the PEQ sounded like crap, there'd be no need to continue! But for now, it sounds pretty good. Bus setups: AU1: eq -> verb -> master out AU2: eq -> verb -> master out AU3: verb -> master out So far, my initial listening show the Fat EQ / PEQ2200 to sound better then the Channel EQ. Fat EQ, after repeated listening (and man, there is a stray note in the loop that is just killing me) seems to have a little something more to it then the PEQ2200, but I haven't narrowed it down. Could by psychosomatic. Overall though, I am pleased with the PEQ2200. It hasn't destroyed the signal in any qualitative fashion. There seems to be a tiny less burble, but I am not sure...it could just be my imagination. The bassline is acid sawtooth and the typical shredding sawtooth sound is less pronounced in the PEQ2200, but when I compare notes across the tracks I can't tell the difference. I'll continue my unscientific analysis and post the samples if anyone cares, maybe folks can run it through their own eq setups and compare! Last edited by crufty; 19th January 2008 at 06:15 PM.. Reason: typo on the khz.

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19th January 2008	#3
EstateMatt Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 606	depending on the dropoff of your filter, you might be distorting your signal when you get to that range? (see here)