ART PRO MPA vs ART MPA Gold

[BudgetMC]

I'm curious as to folk's opinion on the value of the older ART PRO MPA? I know the MPA Gold has some backers here as a cheaper preamp option... does that hold true for the PRO MPA as well? Do the PRO MPA's respond to tube upgrades in a similar fashion?

Much appreciation for any feedback... love all that I'm learning here!thumbsup

[river]

I have 3 of the Pro MPA's and have rolled the tubes in all of them. Definitely a substantial improvement in sonic quality. I have different tube models in each one, and it has resulted in essentially three different preamps.

[BudgetMC]

Thanks, River!

Do the PRO MPA's have variable impedance?

[river]

Sure thing, and no, they don't. I suppose if you're handy with a soldering iron, you could build yourself a variable input pad, although I wonder whether the variable impedance is all that important? I know some folks here say that different characteristics can be achieved out of the same mic with this feature. Overall, there can't be more than a few mic pres with this feature, so how essential can it be?

[Baderup99]

I too would like to know some more info about which you guys think is better PRO MPA or MPA Gold. The only thing I see much of a difference it that variable impedance. Don't know if it would be worth the extra $75 though...

[mamm7215]

It's absolutely worth it. The MPA Gold is as close to high end as you're going to get from low/mid end. JMHO

[Mylithra]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

Thanks, River!

Do the PRO MPA's have variable impedance?

I think a better question as it relates to the 2:
Does the Pro MPA have high Tube plate voltage or is it a starved design? I honestly dont know. The MPA gold does have good plate voltage (around 180V)
The varible impedence knob is nice but to me the plate voltage was much more important.

[river]

[QUOTE][Does the Pro MPA have high Tube plate voltage or is it a starved design?/QUOTE]

It is not a starved plate design. The ART MP is the only starved plate pre they make.

[adathead 53]

Originally Posted by river

I have 3 of the Pro MPA's and have rolled the tubes in all of them. Definitely a substantial improvement in sonic quality. I have different tube models in each one, and it has resulted in essentially three different preamps.

I just wanted to chime in and say that I've been truly amazed at the quality of recordings river makes using these pres and his AT mics. My great friend Riely O'Connor recorded his last album at Sonic Sculpture and the sound is truly awesome. Makes me look at my Great River and Hardys and say "WTF???????". Listen to this guy's advice. They are great pres.

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by river

I have 3 of the Pro MPA's and have rolled the tubes in all of them. Definitely a substantial improvement in sonic quality. I have different tube models in each one, and it has resulted in essentially three different preamps.

hey river, what tubes did you decide on for the three different units?

[river]

. My great friend Riely O'Connor recorded his last album at Sonic Sculpture

Any friend of RO's is a friend of mine! Thanks for the props, adathead53. Are you local, and have we met?

hey river, what tubes did you decide on for the three different units?

I have a pair of Raytheon 12AX7's in one, much smoother top end and more air than the stock ones. Then, a pair of Mullard 12AT7's in the 2nd one, midrangey, good for piano and acoustic guitar, or vocals that need to cut through. The 3rd one has my personal favs, Westinghouse 12DF7's......very dark and smooth, lower gain factor which make them great for vocals, almost impossible to clip them, and extremely low noise. They're also very rare, I was fortunate to find a pair. All tubes mentioned are NOS, probably '60's era.

[Denny McNerney]

thanks...

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by river

I have different tube models in each one, and it has resulted in essentially three different preamps.

errr I think that's stretching the realms of reality a little too much. 3 diferent tubes = 3 different pre-amp? tutt

[river]

errr I think that's stretching the realms of reality a little too much. 3 diferent tubes = 3 different pre-amp?

When I get a chance, I'll post samples of the same acoustic guitar with the same mic through all three versions. They all sound unique, completely different coloration. I stand by the statement.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by river

When I get a chance, I'll post samples of the same acoustic guitar with the same mic through all three versions. They all sound unique, completely different coloration. I stand by the statement.

By experience I'd have to agree with River on this one. I've got two MPA Gold's with Amperex AX7's in one and Telefunken AX7's in the other. They sound completely different. I don't think you'd know they were the same preamp by clip alone.

Frank

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

By experience I'd have to agree with River on this one. I've got two MPA Gold's with Amperex AX7's in one and Telefunken AX7's in the other. They sound completely different. I don't think you'd know they were the same preamp by clip alone.

Frank

If these are new tubes you are talking about they probably all come from the same one or two factories and are identical. What you are paying for is the "brands" testing of the tubes for reliability and consistent performance characteristics.

Ever heard of the very old fable about the "Kings new clothes"? (King's Clothes parody) I think there is a lot of that going on with tubes.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by stevetgn

If these are new tubes you are talking about they probably all come from the same one or two factories and are identical. What you are paying for is the "brands" testing of the tubes for reliability and consistent performance characteristics.

Ever heard of the very old fable about the "Kings new clothes"? (King's Clothes parody) I think there is a lot of that going on with tubes.

That might be true if they were brand new tubes, but they aren't.

The other thing is that they do, in fact, sound different. I've been doing this for almost 25 years...I trust my ears.

Frank

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by Weasel9992

That might be true if they were brand new tubes, but they aren't.

The other thing is that they do, in fact, sound different. I've been doing this for almost 25 years...I trust my ears.

Frank

Fair comment if they're old original tubes.

I started in this game in the Mid 80's and so many times you see one guy comment on a sound, the other doesn't want to appear thick so will agree even though he can't hear a difference lol. I've even played the same source to guys like that before and they swear they can hear a difference lol! Then you tell them you haven't switched, its really funny ... I get board sometimes

[river]

Fair comment if they're old original tubes.

I started in this game in the Mid 80's

My tubes are positively vintage, and I've been twisting knobs and pushing faders since the mid 70's, I wouldn't shine you on!

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by river

My tubes are positively vintage, and I've been twisting knobs and pushing faders since the mid 70's, I wouldn't shine you on!

Well at 38yrs old I'm still a spring chicken lol.

What does confuse me though is why someone would put such old and rare tubes in a £300 ART unit which although very functional is only a middle of the road piece of gear.

[river]

What does confuse me though is why someone would put such old and rare tubes in a £300 ART unit which although very functional is only a middle of the road piece of gear.

Economics. I had just purchased the property for my studio and spent time and money to convert it to a recording space, had yet to purchase other essential pieces of my signal chain, so it came down to budget. A good friend who is also in the biz tipped me off to how well these pres responded to rolling tubes. My next major purchases will be some high end pres in the coming year or two, but I have every intention of keeping these and continuing to use them. BTW, even though they're not expensive, they are Class A electronics.

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by river

Economics. I had just purchased the property for my studio and spent time and money to convert it to a recording space, had yet to purchase other essential pieces of my signal chain, so it came down to budget. A good friend who is also in the biz tipped me off to how well these pres responded to rolling tubes. My next major purchases will be some high end pres in the coming year or two, but I have every intention of keeping these and continuing to use them. BTW, even though they're not expensive, they are Class A electronics.

Interesting. I've quite a few API pres and a couple of ISA220. I'm about to get an A-Designs Pacifica but could still do with a few more pres but obviously don't have much budget left. I'll try and get hold of an MPA to try it.

I wonder if the replacement tubes are obtainable in the UK?

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by stevetgn

Well at 38yrs old I'm still a spring chicken lol.

What does confuse me though is why someone would put such old and rare tubes in a £300 ART unit which although very functional is only a middle of the road piece of gear.

Because in order to do better you'd have to spend five times as much as a pair of tubes are worth.

Frank

[river]

Because in order to do better you'd have to spend five times as much as a pair of tubes are worth.

Yeah, that too! Well said, Frank.

I wonder if the replacement tubes are obtainable in the UK?

Plenty of fine tubes come from your side of the pond; Mullard, Telefunken, Phillips. You'll find something. Anything from the 12AX7 family will work.

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by river

Yeah, that too! Well said, Frank.



Plenty of fine tubes come from your side of the pond; Mullard, Telefunken, Phillips. You'll find something. Anything from the 12AX7 family will work.

Mullard went out of business 30 odd years ago, how do get hold of them now? I can't believe folks still have stock.

[river]

Mullard went out of business 30 odd years ago, how do get hold of them now? I can't believe folks still have stock.

There are a variety of NOS ('new old stock') dealers around. Just Google vacuum tubes, maybe filter in UK. Even used tubes are worth considering, a reputable dealer will test and rate them before selling. Good hunting.

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by river

There are a variety of NOS ('new old stock') dealers around. Just Google vacuum tubes, maybe filter in UK. Even used tubes are worth considering, a reputable dealer will test and rate them before selling. Good hunting.

mmm interesting. cheers

I've got a Manley Massive Passive. It would be interesting to see what NOS stock is available for that too.

[pongki]

since we are talking about ART, have anyone tried ART DIGITAL MPA?

[orbit]

would someone, maybe river, be able to explain what i should be looking for or what the goal is when choosing replacement tubes?

i have an adl 600, an MPA gold, and a dbx 386...........i just got the last 2 like probably 2 days ago...the MPA gold sounds similar to my adl600 but not as much depth and not nearly the silence, the MPA gold is quite noisy comparatively.

the dbx 386 sounds pretty good as is, not too noisy...

so i'd be first interested in upgrading the tubes of the MPA gold, then adl 600, etc...

i really know nothing about tubes, but i did replace the tube in my presonus buetube with a chinese groove tubes 12ax7 that was toted as good for bass guitar and i would say yeah its pretty good, fairly ampeg'ish actually.

is the model what is important? like 12ax7, or what are the factors in dealing with tubes?

[river]

There are several different tubes within the 12AX7 family, which is what's in the MPA's. Some are lower gain, some designed for low noise. I don't claim to be a tube guru, I just dove in and tried a few different flavors to see what happened. I think it's good to have a set of low noise and low gain tubes for vocals, even going to a higher quality 12AX7 for smoother high end than with the stock tubes. Is the MPA Gold new or used? If it's used, the tubes could be the noise source. They're usually fairly quiet pieces.
A good source of info on the 12AX7 family is www.vacuumtubes.com

Just don't ask him what a certain tube sounds like, it really depends on the totality of the tube and the circuit it's plugged into, he can be a grouch on this subject.