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Blister
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#1
26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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Recommend a Condenser for guitar...

I want to put my guitar amp to good use (Sansamp PSA/ Mesa V-twin rack, Mesa 20/20, Marshall 30th Ann LE Cab), and get some different tones... I've got modelers... Just looking for something different for a project.

I have an '57, but volume is a problem... Anyone recommend a decent condenser that would be suitable for recording guitars at "practice", or lower, volumes?



Cheers.
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#2
26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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U67 always sounds great.
#3
26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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U67?

Price check on the Low End Theory aisle!
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26th November 2007
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Oktavamod PE Mk319

plays well with SM57 and just plain sounds sick all the time and by itself
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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AAACK!!

Cousin John, did you mean V-67???

Man, family members.......
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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26th November 2007
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Ribbon mics "play" well with 67s!

[edit: also with 57s]
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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I don't know what you're looking to spend...and condensers are the last call for amps here...after ribbons and dynamics are exhausted. But, I've done some fab tracks with two in particular: AT 4033 and the Neumann TLM193. Not really similar sounds, but...

The 193 it really fairly flat with an emphasis on low mids and a slight dip up in the 5-7k range where amps can show "fizz"...I mention it in low end as I'll probably be selling mine to finance much pricier mics...likely ask $750 or so for it.

The 4033 can be had for $400 new or $225 used. It's full down low--with a little mid high bump that's very flattering on cabs, IMO. Particularly cleanish sounds.
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26th November 2007
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Honestly I rarely find condensers that I love on electric guitar. Some of them are great, but most aren't. The only ones I outright love oddly enough are omnis like Earthworks. Sometimes a 421 works however.

I really like ribbons on electric guitar. If I have my pick I take something like a Royer 121, but since this is the low end, the Cascade Fatheads are an amazing deal.

While also not a condenser, and e609 does things on an amp that a 57 doesn't do at all.
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Blister
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaknt View Post
U67 always sounds great.
Mmmm... eh??
Blister
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
.......
The 193 it really fairly flat with an emphasis on low mids and a slight dip up in the 5-7k range where amps can show "fizz"...I mention it in low end as I'll probably be selling mine to finance much pricier mics...likely ask $750 or so for it....
Holy crap! LOW END LOW END!

My wallet just had a heart attack *picks wife up off floor*
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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I have five mics for you. And only one of them is a condenser.

$650 - Peluso R14 Ribbon mic (in the school of the Royer 121...but half the cost) I'll say this though. The darn thing sounds great.

$350 Sennheiser 421. Nothing fancy it just sounds better than a 57.

$320 - Heilsound PR30 w/ Shockmount (This is a dynamic but it's just so ruggedly built...really handles volumes like a ribbon, it's great, and plays well with the R14 and a modded 57) I prefer this one to the 421 personally espcecially as far as it's design goes with the shockmount.

$300 - Audio Technica AT4047. Yes it's a Large Diaphragm Condenser. But for some reason it never sounds bad on a guitar amp. I like the shockmount for this one too.

$160 - Telefunken modded SM57 from Mercenary Audio (they could also mod your 57 for cheap, takes higher gain structures with ease allowing you to push the preamp going in instead of the guitar cab)


Personally I'd mod your 57.

Then I'd save up a grand and the the Peluso R14 and the Heilsound PR30.

Between those three mics you'll be able to cover so much ground sonically. If you NEED a condenser I'd say the AT is OK...maybe getting a Pearlman TM1 or a Telefunken USA AK16 would get you something in the ballpark sonically to a U67 for a guitar cab...but both of those mics cost more than upgrading your 57 and buying the other two mics I reccomend here.

The AEA and Crowley & Tripp ribbons are marvelous too...but they're also more expensive. I'm trying to lowball it for you.
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blister View Post
I want to put my guitar amp to good use (Sansamp PSA/ Mesa V-twin rack, Mesa 20/20, Marshall 30th Ann LE Cab), and get some different tones... I've got modelers... Just looking for something different for a project.

I have an '57, but volume is a problem... Anyone recommend a decent condenser that would be suitable for recording guitars at "practice", or lower, volumes?



Cheers.
I'm not too hip on condensors directly in front of a guitar amp - that's usually the place for dynamics (for several reasons - sound pressure being one of them). If recording, you can use a condensor as the 2nd mic several feet distant for ambiant mic'ing.

Secondly, there are two schools of thought. Some prefer mic coloring and some don't. I fall into the "don't" category as I've spent years and a small fortune to get the guitar tone I've always heard in my head. So I don't want a mic mucking up that tone - which is why I use EV RE-55s (they're ruler flat and neutral).

Some good dynamics: Sennheiser's 421 or E609 Silver, EV's RE-18, RE-55, or N/D 468, Shure SM-57 - something along those lines. You can get these fairly cheap off Ebay.
Good luck!
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26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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GT Convertible mic... about $75 pretty nice on guitar with the 57...
#15
26th November 2007
Old 26th November 2007
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Quote:
My wallet just had a heart attack
Sorry...you never know the perspective...compared to the U67s and Royers...

With that in mind, I'd reask...why condenser? I really don't think that's what I'd want. However...did a track with the 4033 last night (the Royer was tied up elsewhere and the 4033 was out on the stand already-I'm lazy)...sounded pretty cool. If you don't have nice preamps, that may be a reason to go condenser, too-higher output. Anyway--I'd ventura any of AT 40xx series would do fine for the low volume recording. Also--you might keep in mind that, IMO, Fig8 is king in front of a cab...so, multipattern is certainly worth something extra.
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27th November 2007
Old 27th November 2007
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The color your room provides will probably overpower all but the most colored mics.

Also, you will get a different tone at bedroom volume than cranked (I am sure you know this).

Given that, a Behringer Omni comes in on the super cheap.
Move up from there as your wallet dictates since nothing will really mask your sound more than your room. (KSM27 is about the cheapest quality neutral mic I can think of.)


Good luck,
David

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blister View Post
I have an '57, but volume is a problem... Anyone recommend a decent condenser that would be suitable for recording guitars at "practice", or lower, volumes?



Cheers.
Blister
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28th November 2007
Old 28th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
Sorry...you never know the perspective...compared to the U67s and Royers...

With that in mind, I'd reask...why condenser? I really don't think that's what I'd want. However...did a track with the 4033 last night (the Royer was tied up elsewhere and the 4033 was out on the stand already-I'm lazy)...sounded pretty cool. If you don't have nice preamps, that may be a reason to go condenser, too-higher output. Anyway--I'd ventura any of AT 40xx series would do fine for the low volume recording. Also--you might keep in mind that, IMO, Fig8 is king in front of a cab...so, multipattern is certainly worth something extra.


I thought condenser would be better at lower volumes - keep next-doors happy - And I have an aquaintance who gets a pretty decent heavy sound using a cheap-ass Buttinger 'denser at low volumes.

But, if there is something else that will get the job done, then its all good. My main obsticle is the volume issue. I can always get around it using one of my modelers, or go direct through my Trident VFM using the V-twin or Sansamp PSA, but I just want to get a differnt tone, the 'real' speaker sound. It's another tool in the arsenal.
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28th November 2007
Old 28th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David@MVS View Post
The color your room provides will probably overpower all but the most colored mics.

Also, you will get a different tone at bedroom volume than cranked (I am sure you know this).

Given that, a Behringer Omni comes in on the super cheap.
Move up from there as your wallet dictates since nothing will really mask your sound more than your room. (KSM27 is about the cheapest quality neutral mic I can think of.)


Good luck,
David
Cheers.

Completely agree. There nothing on this earth like a completely KRANKED tube amp. They still sound good at 'prectice' volume - better than a modeler IMO - so its all good.

I've been setting up some accoustic treatment the last couple of weeks, and am experimenting with placement.

If nothing else works I'll just wrap the whole cab & mic in as many blankets as I can find!
#19
28th November 2007
Old 28th November 2007
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mics that I use on a guitar amp are:

SM57
SM58
SM7
MD421
AT4040
AT4047


I like em all....
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28th November 2007
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I've gotten great tones at low volumes. Honestly, I don't think you have to blare a tube amp to kill modelers...in fact, it hard to make them sound not as good as...

Anyway...yes, a condenser can help, but not as much as a compressor.

I've had luck with the 4033 on clean sounds...TLM193 on both...Maudio's Sputnik (you might check the solid state version of that one that's a lot cheaper)...I won't mention the others I've had luck with as they're pretty far out of price scope...however, I think the coolest thing at low volumes is anything in Fig8. It will reject anything reflecting right around it...and since it's not cranked, there's not a ton coming from the other side of the room back. So, if you want a condenser for low volume amp recording, weigh in the ability to do Fig8 as a bonus.
#21
28th November 2007
Old 28th November 2007
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A few condensors I've enjoyed on cabs:

AT3035
AT4033
CAD M9

War
#22
28th November 2007
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wow, a tough one

Sennheiser 409s work nicely(dynamic), as do their big brother the 421.
I've used AKG 414s (maybe not inexpensive, but...), and 451/452s with the CK1 cap and the omni capsule, and those aren't too dear.
The EV omnis work well too, the 635, I think. And so does the RE 15 and 20. The '20 will set you back some, but the '15 and 635 are not expensive at all.
really, though, it gets down to placement. Have you tried 2 mics on the amp, in vastly different places? One front, and one back, if it's open like a Twin? On different drivers?

Yeah, compression can help a bunch too at times...but if it's not there to begin with...
#23
28th November 2007
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Why not build some kind of iso booth for your guitar amp?
#24
28th November 2007
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Kel HM-1 is nice on guitar cabs, and dirt cheap
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28th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Kel HM-1 is nice on guitar cabs, and dirt cheap
+1 for Kel HM-1!

These are awesome on cabs... and only $149
#26
29th November 2007
Old 29th November 2007
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