Adding a sub for mixing

[Intergroove]

I have the Alesis Monitor1 MKII Passive and wanted to know if it would be a good idea to add a sub with it.

[lowfreq33]

It really depends on your monitors. I prefer a good full range monitor to a badly matched 2.1 system any day. I don't think a sub is a must, although some would disagree. If you're doing a lot of rap music I could see needing it.

[Mr. Green]

I've been very pleased with my Infinity PS10 (mixed w/ NS-10s). thumbsup

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

It really depends on your monitors. I prefer a good full range monitor to a badly matched 2.1 system any day. I don't think a sub is a must, although some would disagree. If you're doing a lot of rap music I could see needing it.

That's exactly what I would have said if you hadn't beat me to it.

Adding a sub, which requires another crossover, just gives one more opportunity for response errors due to the crossover. That, and the fact that bass frequencies around the crossover point now arrive and combine from three physical locations instead of only two.

--Ethan

[donsolo]

I'm wholeheartedly against a subwoofer on a low-end setup. What you gain by hearing 25-30hz is not worth what you give up in the 60hz range, you get a little buildup right around the crossover frequency.

Mixing is more about getting a setup that translates elsewhere. That means having a realistic bass responce, not just a loud one. The mixes I hear coming off of systems with subs tend to have a hyped high end because you mask those frequencies with a subwoofer and wind up compensating.

A subwoofer is good for checking the mix for the systems with ultrabass but it's better to get monitors that go down to 36hz or so.

[daverich]

yeah I wouldn't go for a sub.

I use the alesis m1 mk2 actives for reference,- they certainly don't require a sub.

You could look into a set of really good headphones just for checking the very low end.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

[mixerguy]

dont get a sub

save for better mains

and treat your room

[Ethan Winer]

dont get a sub
save for better mains
and treat your room

LOL, that's great - 12 words for all Low Enders to live by.

[jwl]

LOL! Room acoustics haikus!


Treat all the corners;
Make a reflection-free zone
At mix position


Four-inch thick panels
Straddling all the room corners:
Good bang for the buck


DIY is fun
If you like itchy rockwool.
Buy Realtraps or GIK.


Is it a bass trap?
A more accurate term is
Broadband absorber.



What is diffusion?
There is a great article
Glenn likes to link to. ;-)



Much helpful info
Is online and in forums
Thanks Glenn and Ethan!

OK, I'll stop now....

:-D

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by jwl

OK, I'll stop now....

Thank you!

Just kidding, m'man.

[Tibbon]

Never use a sub for mixing stereo. There is absolutely no need. Ever. Get your room sounding right and you'll never need a sub. Never, ever. No matter what type of music.

5.1 is a different story, but that's due to bass management, not due to your speakers/room not going low enough.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Never use a sub for mixing stereo. There is absolutely no need. Ever.

I'll buck against the trend here and say I prefer mixing with a sub..
I'd also like to note that there is never an absolute in the mixing or making music game... It's crazy to say "never no need. ever." in my opinion.

If it helps you to get the job done.. then use it. I am constantly listening to ns10's with a sub and wouldn't be able to do the job properly without it..

Can you pick up a low-end sub to match with your monitors and be able to better tell what's going on in the low end of a mix. It's certainly possible.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by A LaMere

I'll buck against the trend here and say I prefer mixing with a sub..
I'd also like to note that there is never an absolute in the mixing or making music game... It's crazy to say "never no need. ever." in my opinion.

If it helps you to get the job done.. then use it. I am constantly listening to ns10's with a sub and wouldn't be able to do the job properly without it..

Can you pick up a low-end sub to match with your monitors and be able to better tell what's going on in the low end of a mix. It's certainly possible.

That seems to be a poor use of NS-10s. Who in the world uses those as their main monitors? They are great to check out the midrange, but to try to extend them with a sub seems silly. Isn't that like putting a sub on an auratone?

Good monitors don't need subs.

[A LaMere]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

That seems to be a poor use of NS-10s. Who in the world uses those as their main monitors?....

??? essentially everyone I've ever worked with uses ns10's as their main monitors...

There are people who work in different worlds and in different genres here in the Gearslutz board of course, in the world of rock there still isn't a more popular monitor than ns10's to my knowledge... especially here in the US.

Originally Posted by Tibbon

.... Isn't that like putting a sub on an auratone?

Surprisingly, it's much more like adding a sub to ns10's...

Everyone has their own way of doing things, especially in the world of music and art... there is no one "right way". I'll re-submit my original answer...
"if it helps you to get the job done... use it."

Just for the record Tibbon... I wasn't trying to knock your opinion...at all! I'm not one to knock on the way other people work.... Really, just trying to offer up my own and let intergroove decide which is the right direction for him/her....

I absolutely support treating the room properly if possible as well...

[Tibbon]

Point taken.
By "main monitors" i meant "full range monitors", which I don't feel NS-10s are. I've used NS-10s a decent amount, but never were they the only monitors. When you wanted to check the bass and such you put it up on the soffit mounted "main" monitors, which were normally some insanely huge monitors with more bass than god.
Never tried using only NS-10s on a project.