Are These Mic Pre's Overkill for Me?

[frets4fun]

Hi,

My hobbyist-home recording setup is pretty basic: a couple Sure dynamic mics --> MBOX2 --> ProTools. I am adding a condenser mic this week.

I have been playing music for almost 20yrs and have developed a decent ear for tone. Although I have only been recording for ~6mo, I am rapidly coming to realize the limitations of the MBOX pres and am looking to add a nice external pre. I looked at a variety of 1 channel units in the $500-800 price range but have since decided a dual-channel unit may be better. I could spend between $1K-$2K.

I was speaking with a knowledgeable sales person the other day. He recommended a couple units in the $1700 range: the A-Designs Pacifica and the Presonus AD600. These seem to be excellent units which offer the tonal characteristics I am looking for.

Do you think these would be overkill for me? I don't mind getting something I can grow into. However, I do not want to spend money on something that is "more than I will ever need". There are a number of very good 2-channel mic pre's for hundreds $$ less.

I am not necessarily asking for model recommendations (although suggestions are always welcome!). Being relatively new to recording, I looking for some guidance as where the point of dimishing returns lies (in terms of preamp quality).

Thanks!

[slowdive]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago, dissatisfied with my Fireface800's preamps. I was able to get a Sebatron 4-channel preamp for like $1400, and it rules. It can either be clean, or "tubey" depending on how you set it.

So to answer your question, yes upgrading your preamps would be great. Your budget sounds reasonable. IMO, anything more than $2 grand and you would be pushing it a bit, at least until you upgrade everything else.

You might want to think about upgrading your mics and/or room first though. However the order in which you should upgrade is completely subjective.

Food for thought though, I was able to get around 20 GIK panels and treat my whole room (25' x 22') for like $1000. You could get some panels for your room, and buy a nice condenser mic for $2 grand....

Joe

[Snatchman]

Well...I guess this will be your decision wether it's an overkill budget wise. Sonically, I don't think it's an over kill.. I mean even if you are home recordist and you can afford it, why not get the best sound you can. You never know where those tracks may end up...... All said and done, if you decide you wanna not record anymore, at least you can resale these pres with good re-sale value, and not end up basically giving them away as with lesser costing/sounding pres!...... Good luck...

[waffle waitress]

The pacifica is amazing...I am not a presonus fan personally.

If I were you I would look at a Sebatron preamp and an Audio Technica 4050...good all around setup. You could get both of those for less than the Pacifica and the Sebatron has some nice eq switches on it too. But this is great gear you wont need to replace later...just add to it.

[frets4fun]

Snatchman and WW: Thanks so much. That is just the input I was looking for! I hope it can help others in a similar situation as I.

[hopeless_opus]

I agree with Snatchman, those are great preamps. If you can afford 'em, go for it. I can't image you not being thrilled with either one of them. You're also right however, there are lot's of great preamps out there for less money. Where the line of diminishing return begins is the source of endless debate around here.

One other suggestion would be to look into an API 500 series rack and preamps. That'd give you a nice setup and room for growth at a reasonable price, without sacrificing sound.

[markk]

If you dont need matched stereo at the moment and you have a great mic then you may want to consider the following.

API Lunch box
API 512C pre
Adesign P1 pre (500 format of the Pacifica)

Will cost about $2000 and you will have two flavors of high end pres, with 4 more slots to expand with more pres if you really get into this.
These will make a significant upgrade to your recordings and will pretty much retain their value.

[AnAverageJoe]

Originally Posted by waffle waitress

The pacifica is amazing...I am not a presonus fan personally.

Don't judge the ADL 600 just because it has the name Presonus on it... The ADL600 is a very good pre, it nice big and clean sound... IMO it sounds great, but don't forget that the ADL600 is not made by Presonus and plus I would pick the Pacifica over the ADL any day

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by AnAverageJoe

but don't forget that the ADL600 is not made by Presonus

That sir, is an incorrect statement. It's not designed completely by Presonus but it is built by Presonus.

[A LaMere]

If the question is... are you going to see a large upgrade by upgrading to a Pacifica or the ADL then in my opinion the answer is YES...

Even with an mbox 2... the difference will be very large...
The weak point in the chain will then become the mbox2 itself in my opinion but...
The preamp difference is going to be large, even with only dynamic mics.

I also agree with going modular... a lunchbox with 2 pres would cost you the same amount.. and you'd be able to add a 3rd pre, or an eq or two, or a compressor later on...

[frets4fun]

Originally Posted by A LaMere

Even with an mbox 2... the difference will be very large...
The weak point in the chain will then become the mbox2 itself in my opinion but...
The preamp difference is going to be large, even with only dynamic mics.

Thanks for the input. At this point, I need to take one step at at time.

I guess the next step would be an A/D converter that I can send directly to the S/PDF of my MBOX (or lose the MBOX altogether, but I'm getting ahead of myself).

[hopeless_opus]

If you want to upgrade the pres and the converters, one other option is the API A2D.

[RBowlin]

I'd suggest looking at a Chameleon Labs 7602. You can pick one up for under $1k. It has an EQ section which is really nice. This pre doesn't get the press that many others do around here but it really is a good bang for the buck product.

-Rich

[AnAverageJoe]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

That sir, is an incorrect statement. It's not designed completely by Presonus but it is built by Presonus.

yea thats what I meant... Anthony DeMaria Labs is the designer, but Presonus builds it and distributes it.

[layez]

I absolutely love my sebatron. It has that sound i was looking for. I recently picked up a 1NV to be its solid state companion to the sebatron and I dont love it quite as much so far. Im sure i will find it useful, i just havent had enough time to experiment with it. The sebatron had the immediate wow factor to me.

[Chris]

I'd pluck up a Great River mp-2nv if I were you. You can probably find one used at about that price.

[mrldennis]

Look at the Joe Meek TwinQ! 2 ch micpre, eq and compression. Its a great learning box, and it sounds great, too! Oh yeah, and it has a/d. Got mine on ebay for about $500.

[TAVD]

API A2D would be my suggestion. 2 killer preamps & you can bypass the sucky mbox A/D.

[octatonic]

A 500 series lunchbox is a complete no-bainer unless you need something with converters.

[Robert M]

So do you really need a 2 channel pre? If you could do with just one channel I'd really suggest you look into UA 610. An incredibly good pre + eq for the price. I'm not exactly sure what the price is in the States, but here's an European price for it http://www.thomann.de/fi/universal_audio_la610.htm

[Jay Kahrs]

A few years ago I sold my Vintech 2-channel pre to a guitarist buddy... He's more then happy with it. Sounds much better then anything else he owned & his band has made several records on API Legacy & 80-series Neve's... tone snobs for sure.

You could get one of those used for $1000 or less. Doesn't get "better" from there.

Just different.

[edwinhurwitz]

Or, if you want very clean, consider the Grace Lunatec V3. It's got digital out (either s/pdif or AES/EBU) and word clock out. I started out with a Digi 001 and this was my way to bypass the Digi pres and conversion and it has worked out great and has maintained its place in my rig as everything else has gotten better.

If you want flavor, it's the wrong pre, though.

Edwin
PS They also have the new 2 channel pre with A/D, but I haven't used it. Being local to Grace, I may get a chance to check one out for a while. I am curious to hear how it compares to the V3.

[floydisbest]

I would agree with the guys suggesting upgrading the Mbox 2 convertors. I started with an Mbox 1... pretty sub-par, but workable for a starter. then i moved up to a great river & api through an apogee convertor= sounds great.

HUGELY noticeable difference with both the pre and/or the convertor. the answer? probably get both if you can. plus a mic if possible.

options, options :P

that api a2d (1400 used, 1700 new) is a great option- a convertor + pre in one, plus you'll have some extra ca$h for a mic...

[gio.vanni]

Agreeing with most of the guys above. Why not upgrade your entire chain instead of just one area? Get decent converters and decent pres instead of absolutely garbage converters with an insane pre. It makes more sense and will help your sound in the end.

[rockstar_josh]

I'll throw in another vote for the API A2D. It gives you double duty with two killer pres and good conversion (much better than the MBox), all for around 2K. And you'll never outgrow those 312 preamps. They will always be valuable in your setup. Of course, any of the other pres suggested are just as good as the API.

[drummin4christ]

I have api's and an ADL600 and love both for different reasons. You can't go wrong upgrading pres. The ADL is solid on vocals and acoustic instuments. Also, bass, Kick, and OH's. You should hear a major differnce between your stock pres and the Class A pres.

[thermos]

If you are serious about music and recording, you will never regret spending your $ on the best. You will however regret buying anything in the middle. I did a lot of that, (RNP, Joe Meek, Presonus MP-20). All just filler for the good stuff.

I definitely recommend the API A2D. If you can't make a great sounding record using all API pres........ And good conversion/clocking is KEY. Much more crucial than the 10% tone difference you will get by getting a Pacifica instead of an API.

FWIW, from what I've heard of the Pacifica, I think I would take an API over it anyday.

[musicmind11]

if you are going to go tube i would suggest the adesigns mp2a. I saw 2 of them on ebay for around $1800 the other week. The mp2a has some nice switches on the front for different tonal sounds. gives you creative decisions plus it has plenty of gain!!. and omg if youve seen the inside of one no expense was spared on the parts used. I love mine and Ive used ua610's and my friends 600 presonus. If youre not going tube I would honestly get the new purple 10 rack and 2 mic pres either purple audio or api, or maybe even some shadow hills if youd like having tube sound in rackspace with expansion possiblities. be about the same price. good luck