I need some Mic and Pre advice - Page 3

bcab17 · 3rd November 2007, 06:12 AM

Well, to kind of bring this back on point, for $1000 (maybe $1200) I'm looking for one mic and one preamp. They would be mainly for tracking vocals and acoustic guitar.

My original idea was to either pair a great pre (Great River ME-1NV) with an inexpensive mic (CAD M-179, etc.) or spend about the same amount for each, like a FMR RNP with an AT4050. I have an old Symetrix 522 comp/limiter/expander/ducker/gate, which I can use for the time being, but if I go for the RNP I may just throw in another $150 and match it with the RNC.

The AT4047 sounds interesting because I really like a warmer sound, and that's what I've hear about it.

I'm a little concerned about pairing the RNP with the 4050, because even though these are two very well thought of products, many have referred to them both as "somewhat boring". Solid -- clean -- no personality. Now that may be exactly what some people would look for, but to me it sounds...well, a little boring.

The concept of being able to go clean or add any amount of color is exactly what drew me to the Great River pre in the first place (gain staging).

There has been some really excellent stuff in this thread, but I'm still not sure which way to go. I had my finger on "Buy It Now" for a AT4050 @ $400 earlier tonight, but I pulled back.

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 12:09 PM

If you have $1,000 to blow just on a mic and a preamp and that's all you want, I'll end this discussion right now:

1. Neumann (pronounced "Noy-mahn") KM-84 mic; it's the king of small condensor mics - the best ever designed and used by all the big boys in every major studio on the planet from The Record Plant to Abbey Road:

KM84 Neumann Condenser Microphone - (eBay item 270180719786 end time Oct-30-07 12:43:00 PDT)

(if you can't find the KM-84, the new version KM-184 is a stunning mic in its own rite.)

Neumann KM 184 MT condenser microphone mic KMS184 KM184 - (eBay item 330179390295 end time Nov-01-07 19:16:18 PDT)

2. For a transparent preamp:

FMR Audio RNP Really Nice Preamp 8380 Pre-Amp - (eBay item 270182328093 end time Nov-01-07 11:14:57 PDT)

As for "boring", I like boring. I've spent many years (and a fortune) in my guitar rig to duplicate "that" sound I hear in my head; drummers and other musicians do the same with their kits/rigs. The last thing alot of musicians DON'T WANT is a mic or preamp adding unwanted "color". Sometimes color is good...but it's better to add it when you want rather than having to work around it. Strive for accuracy as much as you can...

Enjoy - and best of luck...

DY

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcab17

Well, to kind of bring this back on point, for $1000

(maybe $1200) I'm looking for one mic and one preamp. They would be mainly for tracking vocals and acoustic guitar.

My original idea was to either pair a great pre (Great River ME-1NV) with an inexpensive mic (CAD M-179, etc.) or spend about the same amount for each, like a FMR RNP with an AT4050. I have an old Symetrix 522 comp/limiter/expander/ducker/gate, which I can use for the time being, but if I go for the RNP I may just throw in another $150 and match it with the RNC.

The AT4047 sounds interesting because I really like a warmer sound, and that's what I've hear about it.

I'm a little concerned about pairing the RNP with the 4050, because even though these are two very well thought of products, many have referred to them both as "somewhat boring". Solid -- clean -- no personality. Now that may be exactly what some people would look for, but to me it sounds...well, a little boring.

The concept of being able to go clean or add any amount of color is exactly what drew me to the Great River pre in the first place (gain staging).

There has been some really excellent stuff in this thread, but I'm still not sure which way to go. I had my finger on "Buy It Now" for a AT4050 @ $400 earlier tonight, but I pulled back.

layez · 3rd November 2007, 02:10 PM

Yankee,

I have a EV DS35 that I think is really cool, but has a big bump in the lows that I dont mind. Ive also got a EV model 615 broadcast mic from the 60's which I cant find any specs on but is a really nice mic.

hopeless_opus · 3rd November 2007, 02:11 PM

bcab17,

I think you're on the right track, either of the RNP/4047 and ME-1NV/m179 combinations you are considering are going to work great. I'd say add an RNC or RNLA regardless if you can afford it, since both the RNP and ME-1NV have insert points. Although, the Symetrix compressors are pretty cool in my experience, at least the 501 is anyway.

I still would also recomend a dynamic mic, even an SM58, b/c if you are tracking in an untreated room, doing vocals with a condensor can sometimes be problematic. plus dynamics can be cool on acoustics for a different sound.

An SE Reflexion Filter or Real Traps PVB might also help when using a condensor for your vocals if your room doesn't sound great.

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

bcab17,
*snip*
I still would also recomend a dynamic mic, even an SM58, b/c if you are tracking in an untreated room, doing vocals with a condensor can sometimes be problematic. plus dynamics can be cool on acoustics for a different sound.

I wouldn't waste my money on an SM58 for studio use; it's a live PA mic.

For the price of an SM-58, you can get a studio quality RE-15 in excellent condition.

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layez

Yankee,

I have a EV DS35 that I think is really cool, but has a big bump in the lows that I dont mind. Ive also got a EV model 615 broadcast mic from the 60's which I cant find any specs on but is a really nice mic.

It's the parent to the PL-95 mic; designed for bass but many have used it for vocals. It's a really nice mic.

As for your 615: it may be older than the '60s; I'm looking thru my '60s EV mic brochures and I don't have anything on the 615. What I do have is:

- 619 (and sibling 719)
- 619TR ("dynamic transistorized compressor microphone")
- 620
- 625 series

The 615 must've spawned the above mics as it's an old communications/public address systems mic.

I hope that helps...

DY

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

It's the parent to the PL-95 mic; designed for bass but many have used it for vocals. It's a really nice mic.

As for your 615: it may be older than the '60s; I'm looking thru my '60s EV mic brochures and I don't have anything on the 615. What I do have is:

- 619 (and sibling 719)
- 619TR ("dynamic transistorized compressor microphone")
- 620
- 625 series

The 615 must've spawned the above mics as it's an old communications/public address systems mic.

I hope that helps...

DY

EDIT NOTE: Your 615 is from the 1950s Century line; its sibling is the 715 also from the 50's:

American and Japanes microphones

layez · 3rd November 2007, 04:54 PM

thanks yankee. i couldnt find any info on it. I got it from an estate auction on ebay for 70 dollars and the thing didnt even have a smudge on it and came with the original box! Really cool microphone.

hopeless_opus · 3rd November 2007, 05:06 PM

One last suggestion,

If you go with the RNP, it might be worth splitting the mic money more evenly. Maybe an SM7 and an M179, or a Heil PR-30 and an AT4040 (cardiod 4050). This would give you some nice options and allow you to record both voice and guitar simultaniously with great results.

DamnYankee, where can you get an RE15 for $80? that's one hell of a deal! btw - SM57/58's are studio quality mics, they're used on records every day. I think EV's are great too, I love my 635a.

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

One last suggestion,

If you go with the RNP, it might be worth splitting the mic money more evenly. Maybe an SM7 and an M179, or a Heil PR-30 and an AT4040 (cardiod 4050). This would give you some nice options and allow you to record both voice and guitar simultaniously with great results.

DamnYankee, where can you get an RE15 for $80? that's one hell of a deal! btw - SM57/58's are studio quality mics, they're used on records every day. I think EV's are great too, I love my 635a.

I'd still go with the Neumann KM-84/KM-184 for his nylon acoustic; his MXL-57 is more than serviceable for vocals. Coupled with the transparency of the RNP, the natural-ness of his acoustic will shine thru.

As for the RE-15 question: several months ago, I picked up a mint RE-15 WITH clip and metal box off Ebay for $75; shipping was less than $10. If you're patient, you can find the deals. For example, last year I bought a 24x8x2 Soundtracs Topaz complete with meter bridge from Sweetwater for $650 - NOS in factory boxes! The pres and eq section are top notch; there are a few things about it that I don't like, but considering this board only sold for $6k 10 years ago, it is what it is.

Your 635 is another NICE, extremely versatile dynamic mic; I don't think it uses the Variable D technology like the RE/PL series tho.

As for the SM57s/58s, they are PA mics; yes, some use them in the studio in a pinch but really, you could plug in any mic into a board. But we both know there are better mics out there that can be had for same price as a new 57/58. If faced with a 57 or your 635, I'd go with your 635 as its designed for broadcast/studio applications. YMMV with your setup.

YUGA · 3rd November 2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

If you go with the RNP, it might be worth splitting the mic money more evenly. Maybe an SM7 and an M179, or a Heil PR-30 and an AT4040 (cardiod 4050).

The AT4040 is not the cardioid version of the 4050. They sound different. An SM58 can be useful for singers who hate headphones. Don't forget to check out the KSM44 if you decided to go with a cheaper pre.

bcab17 · 3rd November 2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

bcab17,

I think you're on the right track, either of the RNP/4047 and ME-1NV/m179 combinations you are considering are going to work great. I'd say add an RNC or RNLA regardless if you can afford it, since both the RNP and ME-1NV have insert points. Although, the Symetrix compressors are pretty cool in my experience, at least the 501 is anyway.

I still would also recomend a dynamic mic, even an SM58, b/c if you are tracking in an untreated room, doing vocals with a condensor can sometimes be problematic. plus dynamics can be cool on acoustics for a different sound.

An SE Reflexion Filter or Real Traps PVB might also help when using a condensor for your vocals if your room doesn't sound great.

Hopeless - you mention either the RNC or RNLA. My little understanding of the difference between these is that the RNC is more "clean/uncolored/subtle", and the RNLA is adds "color" and can be more"in your face". Is that correct?

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcab17

Hopeless - you mention either the RNC or RNLA. My little understanding of the difference between these is that the RNC is more "clean/uncolored/subtle", and the RNLA is adds "color" and can be more"in your face". Is that correct?

Correct - but you're using an acoustic instrument and will be VERY LIGHTLY (and I mean barely!) using it.

Here's some clips on the mics we've discussed. Please cut/paste each link into it's own browser so you can do a quick comparison:

http://www.coutant.org/sm7b.mp3

http://www.coutant.org/re15/re15.mp3

http://www.coutant.org/re20.mp3
(same cost as the SM7/SM7b on the used market)

http://www.coutant.org/re55/re55.mp3
(the flattest, most accurate dynamic ever made)

http://www.coutant.org/bcm104/bcm104.mp3
(this is my mic for vocals; it features the same capsule as Neumann's top of the line, $13,000 Solution D mic)

The SM7 doesn't have the same presence as these old RE models; doesn't mean it's not a good mic - it is...but I think it's WAY over-rated and over-priced. But hey...YMMV.

DY

EDIT: let's add the AT4050 for grins...:
http://www.coutant.org/at4050cm5/4050cm5.mp3

...and the EV 635:
http://www.coutant.org/635a/635a.mp3

rufus13 · 3rd November 2007, 08:08 PM

AT4040 is single-diaphragm/cardioid-only, AT4050 is 2 diaphragms/3 patterns. AT4050 is a good deal at under $400 (US$ rapidly turning to %&*# against other currencies from over-printing).

EV 635A is omni-pattern (so cheap you need 6), The Standard for having no proximity effect. All of the patented tricks of EV 666/RE20/RE15 are to make a directional model work as well and sound as good. $120 for a ---like-new in box with clip-- RE-15 may seem high, but it's the best buy of your life. Get 2 or 5.

Cheap/good compressors/EQ are dbx/Symetrix/Rane/Ashley, sold as professional PA gear 10-30 years ago. Sturdy, basic, and out of fashion. "Professional" means repairable and schematics available for the working owner.

I like pre's with good input transformers. The other kind are everywhere, and they can be okay, too.
Pre-amplifier hardly matters, when compared to the mike and placement, assuming there's something worth spinning a hard disk for. This statement is way out of fashion, feel free to spend more.

Cheers.

mikey · 3rd November 2007, 08:37 PM

i would take your friends advice..you can pick up another mic later

DamnYankee · 3rd November 2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rufus13

AT4040 is single-diaphragm/cardioid-only, AT4050 is 2 diaphragms/3 patterns. AT4050 is a good deal at under $400 (US$ rapidly turning to %&*# against other currencies from over-printing).

EV 635A is omni-pattern (so cheap you need 6), The Standard for having no proximity effect. All of the patented tricks of EV 666/RE20/RE15 are to make a directional model work as well and sound as good. $120 for a ---like-new in box with clip-- RE-15 may seem high, but it's the best buy of your life. Get 2 or 5.

Cheap/good compressors/EQ are dbx/Symetrix/Rane/Ashley, sold as professional PA gear 10-30 years ago. Sturdy, basic, and out of fashion. "Professional" means repairable and schematics available for the working owner.

I like pre's with good input transformers. The other kind are everywhere, and they can be okay, too.
Pre-amplifier hardly matters, when compared to the mike and placement, assuming there's something worth spinning a hard disk for. This statement is way out of fashion, feel free to spend more.

Cheers.

Agreed on all points. I'm stocking up on this outboard stuff while (A) it can be had for a fraction on the dollar and (B) everyone is on the chinese mic & inferior software kick The digital software stuff to me just doesn't sound as good as the outboards and users are now looking at their expensive software and going, "eeek!".

I'm not anti-digital: I own Sonar Producer 4 and Steinberg Nuendo 3 but there's a night/day difference between the Lexicon reverbs in Producer and my outboards.

Another piece of gear I picked up is a mint-condition UREI 565T for $250! Not only is it a first class notch filter and can single out a single frequency and surgically remove it from the rest of the spectrum without any effect to the sound, but it also does some cool things like telephone simulation (aka Pink Floyd, Another Brick In The Wall).

hopeless_opus · 4th November 2007, 03:30 AM

bcab17,

Though I do own an RNC, I havn't had a chance to use an RNLA as of yet. The RNC is a pretty clean VCA style comp. From what I have read it sounds like the RNLA is also VCA based but voiced to sound more like a vintage Opto, like an LA-3a for example. I am guessing your Symetrix, like the 501, is pretty clean, so maybe the RNLA would be a cool addition to your setup.

Since your limited to $1000 or so, I'd recommend spending your budget on a quality pre and two quality mics, rather than another compressor. But if you got an extra $200 or so to spare, go for it.

DamnYankee, SM57/58's are used in studio's far more often than just in a pinch, they are STANDARD studio mics. Anyway, I'd be happy to debate this with you in another thread if you'd like. I'm not really sure this back and forth is really helpful to bcab17.

Acoustic Cloud · 4th November 2007, 04:12 AM

Maybe a SixQ,M-179, pair of 603's?
If no SDC's are needed, then maybe a C-1, and 2 57's? (along with the 179)

Those are all well under a grand.....

DamnYankee · 4th November 2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

bcab17,

Though I do own an RNC, I havn't had a chance to use an RNLA as of yet. The RNC is a pretty clean VCA style comp. From what I have read it sounds like the RNLA is also VCA based but voiced to sound more like a vintage Opto, like an LA-3a for example. I am guessing your Symetrix, like the 501, is pretty clean, so maybe the RNLA would be a cool addition to your setup.

Since your limited to $1000 or so, I'd recommend spending your budget on a quality pre and two quality mics, rather than another compressor. But if you got an extra $200 or so to spare, go for it.

DamnYankee, SM57/58's are used in studio's far more often than just in a pinch, they are STANDARD studio mics. Anyway, I'd be happy to debate this with you in another thread if you'd like. I'm not really sure this back and forth is really helpful to bcab17.

Agreed - I apologize for taking the thread off track. I still stand by my statements that the big boys don't use SM58 dynamics as part of their arsenal. In fact, Abbey Road only has 1; The Record Plant only has 2 (see their webpages for mics).

bcab: I would *highly* recommend the Neumann KM-84/KM-184 for your acoustic. Also, if your Symetrix 501 has a silver toggle switch, then odds are very high it has the dbx VCA which will have that dbx grit - so either use very judiciously or flip to the RNC. If the 501 has the gray push-button version, then it should have the THAT VCA which will be very clean. Being acoustic, you won't need much compression anyway.

DY

Good luck!

bcab17 · 4th November 2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

Agreed - I apologize for taking the thread off track. I still stand by my statements that the big boys don't use SM58 dynamics as part of their arsenal. In fact, Abbey Road only has 1; The Record Plant only has 2 (see their webpages for mics).

bcab: I would *highly* recommend the Neumann KM-84/KM-184 for your acoustic. Also, if your Symetrix 501 has a silver toggle switch, then odds are very high it has the dbx VCA which will have that dbx grit - so either use very judiciously or flip to the RNC. If the 501 has the gray push-button version, then it should have the THAT VCA which will be very clean. Being acoustic, you won't need much compression anyway.

DY

Good luck!

Hey Yank, I actually just "won" a "new-in-box" AT4050 last night on eBay for $385 + $10 shipping. It's now on to the preamp. Still have the RNP and RNC on the top of my list (within my budget) -- the GReat River remains on a "wish list" at this time.

By the way, my compressor/limiter is a Symetrix 522, not 501. They don't make this unit anymore. It's probably 15 years old. I may list it on eBay, and put the money towards the RNC.

johnwayne · 4th November 2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcab17

Hey Yank, I actually just "won" a "new-in-box" AT4050 last night on eBay for $385 + $10 shipping. It's now on to the preamp. Still have the RNP and RNC on the top of my list (within my budget) -- the GReat River remains on a "wish list" at this time.

By the way, my compressor/limiter is a Symetrix 522, not 501. They don't make this unit anymore. It's probably 15 years old. I may list it on eBay, and put the money towards the RNC.

RNC and the Dav BG-1 would give you great results. The Dav is a stereo pre so you could have a pre for overheads, Stereo Acoustic, and electric guitar cabs. Having a stereo pre is great.

soundawg · 4th November 2007, 07:04 PM

I have never sold a 57, or a 58, and they both get used live and in studio all the time.

Put either one of these through any good pre that you like and they will SHINE in the studio.

Plus you can hammer nails and hit stupid people with them.

Soundawg

mikey · 4th November 2007, 07:09 PM

i hear Sebatron is doing away with his Single channel vmp unit.And he may have some blems for sale..This will be a nice warmer sound

layez · 4th November 2007, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcab17

Hey Yank, I actually just "won" a "new-in-box" AT4050 last night on eBay for $385 + $10 shipping. It's now on to the preamp. Still have the RNP and RNC on the top of my list (within my budget) -- the GReat River remains on a "wish list" at this time.

By the way, my compressor/limiter is a Symetrix 522, not 501. They don't make this unit anymore. It's probably 15 years old. I may list it on eBay, and put the money towards the RNC.

I would rethink selling that. You wont get enough money for what its truly worth. Symetrix makes solid products.

hopeless_opus · 4th November 2007, 08:08 PM

DamnYankee,

I have started a new thread to continue our SM57/58 discussion. I look forward to your response. Thanks for the info on the Symetrix VCA's btw, I didn't know that.

Bcab17, I mistakenly thought you had the Symetrix, turns out it was Layez, sorry. I definately think an RNC or RNLA would be a nice addition to your setup. I don't know which you'd like better, but the RNC is certainly solid on acoustic guitar and vocals. If you do decide to buy one, I'd suggest ordering both from Mercenary Audio - Professional Audio Recording Equipment and Advice (ADAM Studio Monitors, AEA Microphones, AMI TAB-Funkenwerk, Amtec, API Audio, Apogee Electronics, Avalon Design, Avenson Audio, AxMax, Brauner Microphones, Chandler Limited, Coles Mi and returning the one you don't prefer.

j-uk · 5th November 2007, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

save a little more and get your self a good 2ch pre, you will want to record in stereo at some point. i

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

.
unless your performers are having dynamics and or mic technique problems you feel you have to correct before going to disk i dont think tracking with anything but great compressors is worth while. the RNC is a great little unit for what it is but i didnt feel it was worth the purchase, i would rather just use a plug-in when mixing.

I used to always track with a comp but a few years ago I did some work in a studio with no quality comp but a nice UA610. Didn't wanna run the signal thru some crappy comp so I ended up learning the songs and ride the gain when recording. It's a bit more work but well worth it.

I'd spend my cash on a nicer preamp and get a decent cardioid (sm7 etc) when you can afford it. Also mics are usually easier to borrow and try out then preamps and it's always nice to have a choice.
Best vocal sound I ever got was thru this old weird looking German tube preamp and a 57.

j-uk · 5th November 2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcab17

I'm a little concerned about pairing the RNP with the 4050, because even though these are two very well thought of products, many have referred to them both as "somewhat boring". Solid -- clean -- no personality. Now that may be exactly what some people would look for, but to me it sounds...well, a little boring.

Buy something like Tritones Colortone and stick it on the track that way you can have alternatives. Yea a preamp with grit and personality can be great if you have choices. If not its a nightmare if that "sound" doesn't work on what you track. A clean signal can always be tampered with

stickers · 5th November 2007, 01:13 AM

bcab17,

That SixQ looks like a nice channel strip and its probably a safe purchase. At around $450 it leaves you $550 for mics.

Also the RNP and RNC is a good combo too at $650 leaving you $350 for a mic

As for mics...

The at4050 is a fine mic. You should be able to pick one up on ebay for just under $400. (An ebay auction for a at4050 s ending in 10 minutes and its at $300 and only 2 bids) Go bid!

The Blue Bluebird is a nice mic too. The price just dropped on those and can be bought new off sweetwater for $350.00 which is a crazy price for such a quality built mic.

But eventually you should pic up a sm57 and or a 421.

aussie_techie · 5th November 2007, 04:57 AM

you have made it clear its a strict budget with strict requirments (its gearslutz people will always recommend something that is twice your budget) now you have gone for the 4050, add an RNP and a Heil PR20 which will come to about 1K and you give you the options of different mics and a stereo pre, which i think is what you should be looking for. if you wanted to add the RNC as well its still in your limit of $1200. i probably would of gone with the SM7 and M179 but its personal preference and it not going to make much difference at the end of the day.

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3rd November 2007, 08:08 PM	#74
rufus13 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 467	AT4040 is single-diaphragm/cardioid-only, AT4050 is 2 diaphragms/3 patterns. AT4050 is a good deal at under $400 (US$ rapidly turning to %&*# against other currencies from over-printing). EV 635A is omni-pattern (so cheap you need 6), The Standard for having no proximity effect. All of the patented tricks of EV 666/RE20/RE15 are to make a directional model work as well and sound as good. $120 for a ---like-new in box with clip-- RE-15 may seem high, but it's the best buy of your life. Get 2 or 5. Cheap/good compressors/EQ are dbx/Symetrix/Rane/Ashley, sold as professional PA gear 10-30 years ago. Sturdy, basic, and out of fashion. "Professional" means repairable and schematics available for the working owner. I like pre's with good input transformers. The other kind are everywhere, and they can be okay, too. Pre-amplifier hardly matters, when compared to the mike and placement, assuming there's something worth spinning a hard disk for. This statement is way out of fashion, feel free to spend more. Cheers. __________________ "The cost of acceptable mediocrity has come way down, but that has nothing to do with excellence." - Bob Olhsson, 01Sept2007, 12:44 PM GS post Q:What about Engineer qualifications? "I look for one that will keep his hands away from the knobs." -Norman Granz, interview R-E/P p.22 Aug 1977 "It's not how old you are, it's how well you work." Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

3rd November 2007, 08:37 PM	#75
mikey Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 587	i would take your friends advice..you can pick up another mic later __________________ mikey

4th November 2007, 04:12 AM	#78
Acoustic Cloud Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: around the corner Posts: 1,968	Maybe a SixQ,M-179, pair of 603's? If no SDC's are needed, then maybe a C-1, and 2 57's? (along with the 179) Those are all well under a grand..... __________________ If the Earth wasnt created, where'd all the dirt come from?

4th November 2007, 07:04 PM	#82
soundawg Gear addict Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Surrey BC Posts: 430	I have never sold a 57, or a 58, and they both get used live and in studio all the time. Put either one of these through any good pre that you like and they will SHINE in the studio. Plus you can hammer nails and hit stupid people with them. Soundawg __________________ If it takes sixteen and a half pancakes to shingle a dog... ...how long would it take for a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kik the seeds out of a dill pickle?

3rd November 2007, 06:12 AM	#61
bcab17 Gear Head Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 36	Well, to kind of bring this back on point, for $1000 (maybe $1200) I'm looking for one mic and one preamp. They would be mainly for tracking vocals and acoustic guitar. My original idea was to either pair a great pre (Great River ME-1NV) with an inexpensive mic (CAD M-179, etc.) or spend about the same amount for each, like a FMR RNP with an AT4050. I have an old Symetrix 522 comp/limiter/expander/ducker/gate, which I can use for the time being, but if I go for the RNP I may just throw in another $150 and match it with the RNC. The AT4047 sounds interesting because I really like a warmer sound, and that's what I've hear about it. I'm a little concerned about pairing the RNP with the 4050, because even though these are two very well thought of products, many have referred to them both as "somewhat boring". Solid -- clean -- no personality. Now that may be exactly what some people would look for, but to me it sounds...well, a little boring. The concept of being able to go clean or add any amount of color is exactly what drew me to the Great River pre in the first place (gain staging). There has been some really excellent stuff in this thread, but I'm still not sure which way to go. I had my finger on "Buy It Now" for a AT4050 @ $400 earlier tonight, but I pulled back.

3rd November 2007, 02:10 PM	#63
layez Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore Posts: 180	Yankee, I have a EV DS35 that I think is really cool, but has a big bump in the lows that I dont mind. Ive also got a EV model 615 broadcast mic from the 60's which I cant find any specs on but is a really nice mic.

3rd November 2007, 02:11 PM	#64
hopeless_opus Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 298	bcab17, I think you're on the right track, either of the RNP/4047 and ME-1NV/m179 combinations you are considering are going to work great. I'd say add an RNC or RNLA regardless if you can afford it, since both the RNP and ME-1NV have insert points. Although, the Symetrix compressors are pretty cool in my experience, at least the 501 is anyway. I still would also recomend a dynamic mic, even an SM58, b/c if you are tracking in an untreated room, doing vocals with a condensor can sometimes be problematic. plus dynamics can be cool on acoustics for a different sound. An SE Reflexion Filter or Real Traps PVB might also help when using a condensor for your vocals if your room doesn't sound great.

3rd November 2007, 04:54 PM	#68
layez Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Baltimore Posts: 180	thanks yankee. i couldnt find any info on it. I got it from an estate auction on ebay for 70 dollars and the thing didnt even have a smudge on it and came with the original box! Really cool microphone.

3rd November 2007, 05:06 PM	#69
hopeless_opus Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 298	One last suggestion, If you go with the RNP, it might be worth splitting the mic money more evenly. Maybe an SM7 and an M179, or a Heil PR-30 and an AT4040 (cardiod 4050). This would give you some nice options and allow you to record both voice and guitar simultaniously with great results. DamnYankee, where can you get an RE15 for $80? that's one hell of a deal! btw - SM57/58's are studio quality mics, they're used on records every day. I think EV's are great too, I love my 635a.

4th November 2007, 03:30 AM	#77
hopeless_opus Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 298	bcab17, Though I do own an RNC, I havn't had a chance to use an RNLA as of yet. The RNC is a pretty clean VCA style comp. From what I have read it sounds like the RNLA is also VCA based but voiced to sound more like a vintage Opto, like an LA-3a for example. I am guessing your Symetrix, like the 501, is pretty clean, so maybe the RNLA would be a cool addition to your setup. Since your limited to $1000 or so, I'd recommend spending your budget on a quality pre and two quality mics, rather than another compressor. But if you got an extra $200 or so to spare, go for it. DamnYankee, SM57/58's are used in studio's far more often than just in a pinch, they are STANDARD studio mics. Anyway, I'd be happy to debate this with you in another thread if you'd like. I'm not really sure this back and forth is really helpful to bcab17.

4th November 2007, 07:09 PM	#83
mikey Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 587	i hear Sebatron is doing away with his Single channel vmp unit.And he may have some blems for sale..This will be a nice warmer sound __________________ mikey

4th November 2007, 08:08 PM	#85
hopeless_opus Gear maniac Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 298	DamnYankee, I have started a new thread to continue our SM57/58 discussion. I look forward to your response. Thanks for the info on the Symetrix VCA's btw, I didn't know that. Bcab17, I mistakenly thought you had the Symetrix, turns out it was Layez, sorry. I definately think an RNC or RNLA would be a nice addition to your setup. I don't know which you'd like better, but the RNC is certainly solid on acoustic guitar and vocals. If you do decide to buy one, I'd suggest ordering both from Mercenary Audio - Professional Audio Recording Equipment and Advice (ADAM Studio Monitors, AEA Microphones, AMI TAB-Funkenwerk, Amtec, API Audio, Apogee Electronics, Avalon Design, Avenson Audio, AxMax, Brauner Microphones, Chandler Limited, Coles Mi and returning the one you don't prefer.

5th November 2007, 01:13 AM	#88
stickers Gear Head Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 64	bcab17, That SixQ looks like a nice channel strip and its probably a safe purchase. At around $450 it leaves you $550 for mics. Also the RNP and RNC is a good combo too at $650 leaving you $350 for a mic As for mics... The at4050 is a fine mic. You should be able to pick one up on ebay for just under $400. (An ebay auction for a at4050 s ending in 10 minutes and its at $300 and only 2 bids) Go bid! The Blue Bluebird is a nice mic too. The price just dropped on those and can be bought new off sweetwater for $350.00 which is a crazy price for such a quality built mic. But eventually you should pic up a sm57 and or a 421.

5th November 2007, 04:57 AM	#89
aussie_techie Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perth, Australia Posts: 1,951	you have made it clear its a strict budget with strict requirments (its gearslutz people will always recommend something that is twice your budget) now you have gone for the 4050, add an RNP and a Heil PR20 which will come to about 1K and you give you the options of different mics and a stereo pre, which i think is what you should be looking for. if you wanted to add the RNC as well its still in your limit of $1200. i probably would of gone with the SM7 and M179 but its personal preference and it not going to make much difference at the end of the day.