I need some Mic and Pre advice

[hopeless_opus]

bcab17,

Don't buy into the whole "needing a different pre for different applications" garbage. this is just marketing BS, like needing "matched" tubes for your guitar amp. Most of the all time classic records were recorded with one type of preamp, which was what was in the board they were using. Now mics are a different story, but don't let people sell you on NEEDING a bunch of different pres. Buy a high quality preamp, like the Great River or RNP, or maybe even the Joemeek if it's the best you can afford, and move on.

If you really like the idea of mixing and matching pres, that's cool. But it is far from essential and may or may not help your recordings. My mic recommendations would be the SM7 and an AT4047.

just my 2 cents, peace.

[aussie_techie]

Originally Posted by bcab17

I know there's not ... one pre that works for everything.

this whole ting about different color pres has been blown out of proportion around here.
any good quality pre should work on anything, maybe some of the more exotic flavors that have come out recently are so colored that they arnt as versatile but certainly all of proven solid performers will work fine. certainly some pres will be better on certain things than others but no quality pre should stop you making a record and if you think it is then its all in your head. if you are in doubt about a particular pres color go towards the cleaner sound, you can always add more warmth, color,distortion, other buzz word to your signal later.

i dont think CAD have an M219, unless they have come out with new mics without updating their website again. i wouldn't go back to a TB1, sure it is warm but it lacks the clarity that you want for a vocal, i didnt like the C1 so i wouldn't buy a T3 either but many do so it comes back to whatever suits your voice.

[Pohaku]

Originally Posted by bcab17

Please back up a second (I need to catch up). What's a lunchbox and what's the new 500 series?

Also, having bothe the SM7 and 4050, you are a great resourse for me. Could you please compare those two mics for me? What do you use each for, and why do you choose one over the other for a given task? This would be really interesting to me.

Lunchbox: see Mercenary Audio - API 500-6B Six-position "Lunchbox" for API 500 Series

It is a small portable rack with an integral power supply that will hold a number of audio card modules. The API is kind of the prototypical unit. The current model holds 6 modules (prior model held 4 modules). You then buy the cards that you want. There are a rapidly increasing number of gear manufacturers who are making cards to fit this format (often referred to as the 500 format because the API modules that fit the rack are designed as the 500 series -- 512c, 525, 550, 560, etc.) There are other brands of lunch box and related racks as well -- see A-Designs, OSA and Brent Averill.

Great River very recently released its 500 series module, the MP500-NV which essentially is the ME1-NV in the 500 format. See -- Mercenary Audio - Great River Electronics MP500-NV Mercenary Edition

Street price of the ME1-NV is @$1075. Street price of a 6 slot API lunchbox is @$425 (used ones go for @$350 or so on e-bay) and street price of a MP500-NV is $750. You can do the math. When the dust settles, you would have one channel of GR (same as the ME1-NV) and 4 more available slots (with power supply) for whatever strikes your fancy in the future.

You might want to check out this thread among others:

List Here - All Lunchbox Modules In API 500 Series Format

Lots of new modules are in the process of being released, including comps and EQs, as well as mic pres. A handy and relatively portable arrangement. I have a couple lunch boxes with 2 API 512c preamps, as well as an A-Designs P-1 and Purple Audio Biz preamp. I also have 2 API 550b EQs and an API 525 comp. Waiting for the new Purple Audio modules to be released this fall and contemplating a GR as well. IMHO, any of these pres (among others), including the Great River would be a fine place to start. The differences between good pres are often subtle, and while some, like the GR, offer some additional features, virtually all of them will perform more than adequately. The mix and match thing is usually done because we can and we like to tweak the last 5% to suit our notion of the proper aesthetic for the song. This is Gearslutz after all.

As far as mics go, the SM7 gets used a lot for anything close miced. Not much proximity effect, not peaky -- I find it warm and present. It needs a lot of quiet gain - at least 60db IMHO to be usable. Others have said they can use it with a GT Brick (55db), but I usually use it with 66db or better. With a lower power pre, the pre will need to be quiet at high gain levels in order to manage related noise. My SM7s have consistently been chosen in shoot outs over my more expensive mics - especially for vocals. My other mics include the aforementioned AT-4050s, Neumann Gefell M582h, GT MD1a, GT MD3, Beyer M834, AEA R84, Audix VX-10, AT-4054, Sennheiser MD441, Beyer M500, AKG C414B-ULS, etc. Not real high end, but not too shabby either. They get used on cabs, acoustic guitars, toms, and bass. For pure solo acoustic stuff, I usually use a pair of SD condensers (AT-4053 or Josephson C42). For stuff in a mix, the SM7 works just fine. I started out with one and bought another after seeing how much it got used. Both of mine are original SM7s, bought used for $200 each. New SM7bs are @$320 each (go to Amazon and see the prices offered by their related vendors like Full Compass). There really is no appreciable sound difference between the various SM7 models.

The AT-4050 is a good Swiss Army condenser mic. It is a multi-pattern (which the SM7 is not) so it can be used in figure of 8 and omni too. It is a much more sensitive mic than the SM7. It is a relatively unhyped mic (which is why some people will call it dark). It will sound very good on some voices - you just have to try it out. It will sound good on a variety of instruments. Mine get used most for room mics and overheads. Sometimes for background vocals, although they have largely been supplanted in that role by the AEA R84. It is a very good mic, but it just gets chosen less often than the SM7 for vocal and other chores - at least for the music that I do which is largely guitar based Americana/rock. Keep in mind that condensers, because they are more sensitive, will be more likely to pickup the acoustic flaws in your room and all extraneous noises when you record. Dynamic mics are more forgiving in that regard.

You really should be able to make a record with either mic if that was all you had.

[jdier]

Originally Posted by bcab17

I have about a $1K budget (give or take) to upgrade the front end of my "beginner's" studio. I'm a one-man operation recording one vocal or instrument at a time into a Korg D1600MKII, and I'd like to move up from my starter LDC (MXL V57M) and preamp (ART Tube MP Studio V3).

My research had me leaning towards the FMR RNP and RNC (I've been using a really old Symetrix comp/limiter that's ok). At around $600 for this combo, the FMR seems to be a very popular "best bang for the buck" choice, and it would leave me enough dough to pick up a good vocal mic in the $400 to $500 range. I have been told that the AT4050 is an excellent choice for a "one-mic studio" (although I would only be using it for male vocals and maybe some acoustic guitar).

Then, a friend (who has a lot more experience with studio gear than I) suggested that I go for the best pre I can afford, and add the other gear later. He told me that the Great River ME-1NV is his favorite pre, and knowing that I prefer a "warmer" sound to "extra clean" he said that the Great River's gain-staging would allow me to dial in any amount of "color" that I want. My first reaction was to go from a $69 ART to a $1000 GR sounded a little crazy, but now I don't really know.

So what's your philosophy? Get one high-end piece of gear at a time (build the arsenal slowly) or add more affordable "value" gear sooner (and maybe trade-up later)?

Also, any opinions on the gear I'm considering, and alternate choices would be greatly appreciated.

Nothing against your buddy, but I would suggest almost the opposite. Spend more on mics, less on preamps.

I own both of those pres and while both are great, for a one man beginners studio I would spend on the FMR combo and save the rest for mics. I have no experience with the AT mic so I cannot comment. If I could only have one mic my choice would be an SM7, but most would likely suggest the AT over the SM7, which I am sure is a good choice.

I like my GR quite a bit, but I think you would be better served to put that on your list as your next mic pre upgrade, and save for better mics now.

If you could hunt some bargins down, here is what I would shoot for in a minimal set up: FMR RNP, FMR RNC, (if you can swing it FMR RNLA) AKG 414, SM57 and SM7b.

That would cover a load of needs for you and I would guess, if properly cared for, every one of those items could be handed down to your kid some day. They are all keepers.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Oh my

The SM-7 on acoustic guitar is almost non functional. If you want an acoustic to sound like a solidbody bass guitar mic'd at the strings with no amp, then I guess its ok. Maybe with an AEA pre, it would work, but with anything around 60-65, maxxed out, es no possible hombres! (IMO)

When I had the SM-7, it was great on vocals, especially loud peeps. I can see it being great with loud percussion-horns, etc......

But acoustic guitar of any kind, a resounding no! There are just 1000 other better options for that.

I personally think, that a desert Island mic cant have the beauty PLUS the limitations of the SM-7.

I would chose the M-179 way before it.

[Pohaku]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

Oh my

The SM-7 on acoustic guitar is almost non functional. If you want an acoustic to sound like a solidbody bass guitar mic'd at the strings with no amp, then I guess its ok. Maybe with an AEA pre, it would work, but with anything around 60-65, maxxed out, es no possible hombres! (IMO)

When I had the SM-7, it was great on vocals, especially loud peeps. I can see it being great with loud percussion-horns, etc......

But acoustic guitar of any kind, a resounding no! There are just 1000 other better options for that.

I personally think, that a desert Island mic cant have the beauty PLUS the limitations of the SM-7.

I would chose the M-179 way before it.

YMMV. I find it works just fine on acoustic. Certainly works with an RNP at 54db close miced on acoustic (take the foam screen off) -- plenty of level. As I noted earlier, if I was going to do solo guitar recording, I'd be using a pair of SD condensers, but for an acoustic guitar in the mix, it works just fine. Never used the M179 so I can't speak to it though I know that Warren speaks very highly of it.

[bcab17]

[quote=Pohaku;1602559]Great River very recently released its 500 series module, the MP500-NV which essentially is the ME1-NV in the 500 format. See -- Mercenary Audio - Great River Electronics MP500-NV Mercenary Edition

Street price of the ME1-NV is @$1075 and street price of a MP500-NV is $750. You can do the math. When the dust settles, you would have one channel of GR (same as the ME1-NV)
[quote]

Hey Pohaku, thanks for the great info! The cynic in me finds it hard to believe that a $750 MP500-NV is the same as a $1075 ME1-NV. The dreamer in me hopes it's true. Can you elaborate a bit?

[bcab17]

I came into this thinking that a good LDC would be the best approach to a "do-it-all" mic (and the 4050 was on the top of my list), but after reading so many good things about the SM7b (especially for vocals. and maybe better suited for someone like myself who prefers the sound of analog to digital), with some creative accounting and deal making (buying used rather than new) it may be a better idea to go for BOTH mics. This would knock the Great River preamp out of the mix, but the RNP seems like it would not be a mistake.

"Hopeless", you mentioned the AT4047. Can you fill me in on this mic? Who does it differ from, and why would you choose it over a 4050?

[Pohaku]

Well. I don't know what goes into Dan's pricing, but the MP500-NV, of course, doesn't need its own power supply as that is supplied by the lunchbox. I donlt know if there were other manufacturing cost savings as well. Nonetheless, it is still priced pretty aggressively compared to other 500 modules, but that is now a burgeoning and competitive sector of the audio gear biz. It does take up 2 slots as opposed to the typical 1 slot, so it looks like they didn't compromise on the transformers to shoehorn it in. Do a search here as there is lots of commentary.

The description from the Mercenary site says:

The MP-500NV uses the same audio and metering circuit board found in the NV series preamplifiers. This unit is designed to fit into a 500 series rack using 2 available slots. It receives its power supply from the host rack. The unit is equipped with a HI-Z instrument jack that has its own input amplifier and was designed for DI aplications. All specifications and performance details are identical to the NV series preamplifiers with the exception of size, weight, patch jack, -10dBv Out.

I expect that verbiage is supplied by GR and is accurate.

All in all a very good deal compared to buying their free standing units. Which is why I'm also considering buying one.





[quote=bcab17;1603178][quote=Pohaku;1602559]Great River very recently released its 500 series module, the MP500-NV which essentially is the ME1-NV in the 500 format. See -- Mercenary Audio - Great River Electronics MP500-NV Mercenary Edition

Street price of the ME1-NV is @$1075 and street price of a MP500-NV is $750. You can do the math. When the dust settles, you would have one channel of GR (same as the ME1-NV)

Hey Pohaku, thanks for the great info! The cynic in me finds it hard to believe that a $750 MP500-NV is the same as a $1075 ME1-NV. The dreamer in me hopes it's true. Can you elaborate a bit?

[bcab17]

Thanks again, Pohaku. I will look into the whole "lunchbox" appraoch. It's new to me.

If I can swing the two mics, I just had a thought. I was wondering if using two different mics at the same time for tracking vocals would make any sense. For example, if one is a dynamic mic (say a SM7), and the other is a condensor (say a AT4050), if they were placed about 6" apart and I had the singer about 6" to 8" back, facing/singing towards the mid-point between both mics, the idea would be to record two separate tracks at the same time with two very different sounding mics. I could then choose which one sounds best for the specific voice as well as which one works best in the overall mix. The other option would be to use both tracks, either panned apart perhaps with different delays and eq, or mixed together to get a unique "combined mic tone".

Would this work or is this just a dumb idea? Would there be phase issues or other problems?

[DamnYankee]

You're on a limited budget. So start looking for older, pro studio gear that you'll find use for after you have money to upgrade. Right now, forget the newer, name brand "en vogue" stuff - it's out of your budget.

Here would be my list:

MICS: 1st off, PLACEMENT IS KEY regardless of the mic you use.

If you want studio mics on the cheap, look for Electrovoice RE-xx series on Ebay - the RE series were made for broadcast and studio applications and are INEXPENSIVE in the used market! Being dynamic mics, you won't need 48V power either. Great mics and you'll always find a use for these in your studio:

RE-15: Bob Ohlson (Motown engineer legend) still swears this is the best mic ever made for recording vocals. Tom Scholz/Boston used this mic to record his acoustic guitars. They're highly sought after and are had on Ebay for $75-$100. It's baby brother is the RE-10; same mic, sounds identical, just that the RE-10 didn't pass the rigorous quality tests as the RE-15. Elvis used the RE-10 as his main vocal mic and most swear they can't tell the difference between the two. The RE-11/RE-16 are the same mic just with an internal pop filter and the RE-11/RE-16 have the same quality deal as the RE-10/RE-15.

RE-18: used by Keith Richards on his guitar amps; an outstanding tom mic too; earlier this year I picked up (3) on Ebay for a grand total of $40. I love 'em!

RE-20: Still produced and the standard in broadcasting. This is an outstanding dynamic vocal mic (used by Brad Delp/Boston) AND 1 of the 2 studio standards for kick drum (the AKG D-12/AKG D112 is the other). These are $1,000+ mics new, but can be had used for $325. You should seriously consider purchasing one after your initial $1,000 investment - its 2 mics in one (kick & vocals).

RE-55 (or DO-54 or PL-9): Same mic, different lengths, touted as Electro-voice's ultimate instrument mics. The flattest response (and I mean nearly ruler flat!) dynamic mic ever made - excellent on acoustic instruments and cymbals. RE-55 are rare and highly sought after and can go as high as $150 each. The others can be had VERY cheaply as most folks don't know they have the same capsule and are pretty much the same mic. I have several of each.

Your MXL V57M is a respectable condensor mic; it's a rebadged V67G. It's a keeper. Also in the MXL line you'll want to consider purchasing is the MXL 603s - it's a small diaphram condenser which is excellent for overheads and acoustic instruments; you'll want a pair of these and can be had for ~$125. You'll need 48V to power these as they are condensors.

You'll hear AKGs (C-414, C-451, etc), AudioTechnica (40xx models), & Shure SM-7 being tossed around - and they too, are killer mics that eventually you'll want part of your arsenal. I'd forego these for now. You'll find that out that mics are like candy: you'll want every flavor in the candy store. Remember to buy mics that you're always going to use (instead of the flavor-of-the-month).


EQs:

You can't beat those old, studio standard UREI graphic equalizers - they can be had for ~$40 are so and were studio standards in the '70s/'80s. Be aware the UREI 539 only cuts frequencies downward and is used primarily for room acoustics. The UREI 527 & UREI 537 31-band and UREI 530/535 dual band eqs are nice. Due to the plastic sliders that tend to freeze, you'll need some CAIG lubricant made specifically for plastic sliders. You can purchase a 527/537 and use these as a cheap "mic" pre for now:

mic --> UREI 537 --> Korg


Those older 15 & 31-band MXR eqs are great also - as are the SR&D Rockman Instrument Eqs.

As for parametric eqs, the older Ashlys are very respectable (e.g., SC-66a, PQX-572) and they are very affordable.


COMPRESSION:

After all these decades, dbx still remains one of the standards in studio compression and they are VERY cheap:

dbx 119: older, home stereo model of its highly sought after, studio big brother dbx 160VU; they share the same VCA, but the 119 is unbalanced, lacks the needle meter and a few other features. You can pick up the dbx 119 for less than $100. You may have to calibrate it (or have a tech do it for you) - just google for instructs.

dbx 160 family: the revised version of the 160VU. Progression of this class was:

160VU --> 160A --> 160X --> 160XT --> 166 --> 166XL.

160A/160X/160XT are still studio standards but at $300+ each, are probably out of your price range for now.

dbx 163x: studio half rack unit which is great for bass guitars...can be had on Ebay for $40.
Compressor Reviews

dbx 166: a later studio standard which is stereo; still is found in many major studios. Ebay has them for $75 to $100. 166XL model is supposed to be an upgrade but many still swear by the 166. Tom Scholz/Boston uses the 166 in his studio.

dbx 263x: one of the studio standards for De-ess'ing vocals and cymbals...can be had on Ebay for $40. Another great De-ess box is the broadcast model Orban 536A (which IS the studio standard in Nashville studios).

Keep in mind most of the above gear has been used on many hit records of the 70s/80s and just because it doesn't have a bright red or green box or a Made In China stamp doesn't mean it's still not damn good gear!

Moving on...

RNC: many swear by these and can be had for under $200. Very transparent and like the dbx, isn't the do-all, be-all. I think if you pick up a 119, 163x, 166, and RNC, you'll pretty much have your compression needs covered. Eventually, you'll want an EL Distressor and UREI LA-series - and if you ever purchase those, you'll still always find the above compressors useful in many situations.


REVERBS:

TC Electronic M300 is an outstanding value and features the verbs from its bigger, studio brothers - the difference from its bigger brothers is, the M300 doesn't have all the flexibility in the parameters area, but they still sound great. It also has 2 engines (one for the reverbs and a 2nd for the digital effects - which I don't care for). I bought mine new on Ebay for $100.
TC ELECTRONIC M300

Lexicon Reflex - uses the same reverb chip as the PCM-80, and like the TC Electronics M300, doesn't have the flexibility of dialing in parameters like its bigger brother. Great sounding reverbs and this box too, is $100 or so. Like the M300, I don't care much for the digital effects.
REFLEXOLOGY

Lexicon Alex - older than the Reflex but still has pretty much the same great sounding reverbs; has less presets/flexibility than the newer Reflex but for ~$40-$50 on Ebay, is a TREMENDOUS bang for the buck.


PATCH BAYS:

You can't beat dbx Pb-48 for balanced ($50 each on Ebay) and Pro-Co PM 148 unbalanced (~$20-40 - which you'll use lots of these as most effects are unbalanced. They are nickle-plated and excellent value. Be cautious about purchasing the plastic Neutrik & RE'AN (among other) models...among the various forums out there, many users of these later regretted the purchase. I have read many like the Samson S patch Plus as it has an external switch for normal/half normal/through mode but I haven't used this one.


GATES:

One of the studio standards remains the Aphex 612 and MANY swear its the best gate ever built. They usually run ~$75-125 on Ebay and upgrade brother (622) is 3x the price. When you consider gates, get the 612 or 622 (or both).

I hope that helps.

DY

Originally Posted by bcab17

I have about a $1K budget (give or take) to upgrade the front end of my "beginner's" studio. I'm a one-man operation recording one vocal or instrument at a time into a Korg D1600MKII, and I'd like to move up from my starter LDC (MXL V57M) and preamp (ART Tube MP Studio V3).

My research had me leaning towards the FMR RNP and RNC (I've been using a really old Symetrix comp/limiter that's ok). At around $600 for this combo, the FMR seems to be a very popular "best bang for the buck" choice, and it would leave me enough dough to pick up a good vocal mic in the $400 to $500 range. I have been told that the AT4050 is an excellent choice for a "one-mic studio" (although I would only be using it for male vocals and maybe some acoustic guitar).

Then, a friend (who has a lot more experience with studio gear than I) suggested that I go for the best pre I can afford, and add the other gear later. He told me that the Great River ME-1NV is his favorite pre, and knowing that I prefer a "warmer" sound to "extra clean" he said that the Great River's gain-staging would allow me to dial in any amount of "color" that I want. My first reaction was to go from a $69 ART to a $1000 GR sounded a little crazy, but now I don't really know.

So what's your philosophy? Get one high-end piece of gear at a time (build the arsenal slowly) or add more affordable "value" gear sooner (and maybe trade-up later)?

Also, any opinions on the gear I'm considering, and alternate choices would be greatly appreciated.

[bcab17]

That's awesome help, Yankee. You've taken this in an entirely different direction. It's good (and bad) to have so many options on a relatively small budget.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by Pohaku

YMMV. I find it works just fine on acoustic. Certainly works with an RNP at 54db close miced on acoustic (take the foam screen off) -- plenty of level. As I noted earlier, if I was going to do solo guitar recording, I'd be using a pair of SD condensers, but for an acoustic guitar in the mix, it works just fine. Never used the M179 so I can't speak to it though I know that Warren speaks very highly of it.

Yes, I dont think many even use the foam screen, do they? But the idea with acoustic guitar in a mix, it has to retain the upper mids and highs to even cut enough to be heard. Unless you EQ the heck out of it with acoustic, I cant see how it would work. IMO

Anyway, I think the SM-7 is a must, once your mic locker gets alot of other things covered. Getting one "soon on", is like painting a car with flat tires.

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by bcab17

That's awesome help, Yankee. You've taken this in an entirely different direction. It's good (and bad) to have so many options on a relatively small budget.

Just remember: the old standard studio gear used 15-20+ years ago is still fantastic stuff without any mods. You can score alot of this stuff and still be in your budget. Just because it doesn't have a name plate like Klark Technic, Joe Meek, Drawmer, etc, doesn't mean it's inferior. Skilled people like Jim Williams can do a $150 upgrade mod to some of this older gear and get it to sound as good or better than the new stuff costing $1,000's.

Best of luck,

DY

[bcab17]

Hey, I have a quick eBay question. I've seen some of these mics listed as "new" from large eBay stores with 99% to 100% poistive feedback. One offers a complete 30-day money back guaranty (less shipping charge), but it's not an authorized dealer. Another is a AT authorized dealer, but only offers only a 5-day "DOA or defective product" return policy.

Which is a better choice to buy from, an authorized dealer or a dealer with "no questions asked 30-day return policy"?

Can you get "in-warranty" repairs if purchased from a non-authorized dealer?

Thanks for your help.

[layez]

shhhhhhhhh!!!! dont spill the beans on the EV mics!

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by layez

shhhhhhhhh!!!! dont spill the beans on the EV mics!

Well, sounds like he's going AT anyway. I have EVs, Neumanns, AKGs and a few Sennheisers. I personally wouldn't consider purchasing AT or Shure mics, but hey, that's more EVs for me and you!

Speaking of EVs, did you check these out??? They're in great shape WITH the ribs and he has thirty (30!!!!!) for sale...

Electro Voice RE15 Dynamic cardioid microphone MIC EV - (eBay item 130169293078 end time Nov-07-07 18:00:56 PST)

I already have all the RE-15s I'll ever need.

DY

[layez]

is that 120 per mic? not that they arent worth it, but they can definately be found cheaper on ebay.

those mics are trash anyways, they should only sell for 20 dollars max.

[daillman]

wait and get a pacifica or some ua or some api stuff and step ya game up....

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by layez

is that 120 per mic? not that they arent worth it, but they can definately be found cheaper on ebay.

No doubt - but it was number of 30(!!!!) that this seller had - and these weren't beat up, either!

Originally Posted by layez

those mics are trash anyways, they should only sell for 20 dollars max.

$20??? I think even that is overpriced...

[hopeless_opus]

The AT4047 is a cardiod FET transformer coupled condensor. It's got a bit more of a "warm/vintage" sound to it than say the 4033, which is actually a really great mic on acoustic guitar. I just happen to like the 4047 better, in fact I like it better than the 414, which is also a great mic but more $$$. I haven't actually used the 4050, but I am sure it's great as well. Also, if the SM7 ends up being over your budget don't rule out an SM57/58 or Beta58. With a high quality preamp you can get great results on vocals with these mics, despite what a lot of people on these boards seem to think. Certainly works well enough for Bono. The 4047 is also a great vocal mic.

EV's mics are indeed great, but I wouldn't say they are neccessarily "better" than Sure or AT mics. HEil's line of dynamics might also be worth looking at. A few people have mentioned that they are pretty good on acoustics, as well as vocals. Might be a great option if you choose to go the one mic route.

also, the 500 series Great River is priced cheaper b/c it doesn't include a power supply. All 500 series preamps are powered by the lunchbox. If you go the lunchbox route, I'd suggest getting an API 512c. They sound fantastic, are a little cheaper, and take up half the space.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

No doubt - but it was number of 30(!!!!) that this seller had - and these weren't beat up, either!



$20??? I think even that is overpriced...

You guys are "not so" top secret in the communicado realm......

Whats the deal with these? I really want a PR-30, because its a thing I dont have yet.

How would this compare?

PM me, if you are shy to divulge-it!

[DamnYankee]

Originally Posted by daillman

wait and get a pacifica or some ua or some api stuff and step ya game up....

That's so wrong.

The dude has only $1,000 to get going. He'll drop $1,500 just for a single channel UA-1176. He'll drop about $1,000 for a single channel UA-LA4. So what's he supposed to do...wait another year or two to save another $1,000 to buy a 2nd channel of UA? Secondly, UA comps are great for vocals and acoustic instruments but they wouldn't be my first choice for bass or drums.

For the cost of a single channel UA-1176 or UA-LA4A, he could start recording NOW with really nice results with:

1. (1) RNC for vocals at a fraction of a UA ($150)
2. (1) dbx 166 comp for his drum buss (<$100)
3. (1) dbx 163x comp for bass ($50)
4. (3) RE-18 mics to mic toms & guitar amps (<$60)
5. (1) RE-20 mic to mic his kick AND use for vocals ($325)
6. (3) MXL 603s to mic his overheads/high hat ($150)
7. (1) Shure SM-57 for snare and guitar amp ($75)

That's less than $910 and he'll have some money left over to pick up one or two UREI 537 or dbx 1531X or dbx 1531P eqs off Ebay.

[DamnYankee]

Again, he needs alot of gear and only has $1k to work with. He needs comps, eqs, mics, etc.

Originally Posted by hopeless_opus

The AT4047 is a cardiod FET transformer coupled condensor. It's got a bit more of a "warm/vintage" sound to it than say the 4033, which is actually a really great mic on acoustic guitar. I just happen to like the 4047 better, in fact I like it better than the 414, which is also a great mic but more $$$. I haven't actually used the 4050, but I am sure it's great as well. Also, if the SM7 ends up being over your budget don't rule out an SM57/58 or Beta58. With a high quality preamp you can get great results on vocals with these mics, despite what a lot of people on these boards seem to think. Certainly works well enough for Bono. The 4047 is also a great vocal mic.

EV's mics are indeed great, but I wouldn't say they are neccessarily "better" than Sure or AT mics. HEil's line of dynamics might also be worth looking at. A few people have mentioned that they are pretty good on acoustics, as well as vocals. Might be a great option if you choose to go the one mic route.

also, the 500 series Great River is priced cheaper b/c it doesn't include a power supply. All 500 series preamps are powered by the lunchbox. If you go the lunchbox route, I'd suggest getting an API 512c. They sound fantastic, are a little cheaper, and take up half the space.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Intergroove

Hey Warren,how would you compare the Joemmek SixQ to the Chameleon Labs 7602.Are they about the same or is one better than the other?

They are totally different animals.

The SixQ has optical compression on board which is generally a slower type of compressor which deals with sources in a fairly smooth manner. The Meek is surprisingly good and can remain fairly clean on less transient spike sources (you will hear pretty obvious artifacts on a kick drum for example, pumping etc). On vocals though those compressors can be dialed in pretty reasonable. The compressor can be very obvious on more slammin' sources which is a great effect at times.

The EQ on the Meek is "eh". Certainly decent, but this is where the Chameleon shines. The Chameleon has a great amount of control and can really be a pretty broad brush stroke when needed. It has a nice mojo to it as well. The preamp on the Chameleon is also very nice in my opinion, more mojo but capable of fairly clean work as well without being boring. The Meek is about what you'll find in a low to mid-market console, neutral without any real flare BUT the "iron" switch does offer a transformer on the input for a weightier kind of sound which gives it some versatility.

The Meek also has SPDIF outputs which will come in handy as an extra converter.

Both boxes serve a purpose in different price points but also have different feature sets so it's hard to really do a side by side on them. I feel that both boxes deliver beyond their asking price though.

War