Starting from the Bottom and Staying There! (Behringer Lover's Thread)

[DivineChemical]

It seems like lately in the music production end of things, there's been a bit of an elitist attitude concerning the gear used to make music. (This isn't just on GearSlutz, it's all over the net in pretty much every forum.) To quote a friend "They're focusing too much on the paints and not the painting." It is for this reason that I have made a conscious decision to use Behringer gear wherever possible. I'm not doing this because I can't afford better, or I prefer them (except in certain circumstances like the V-Amp Pros and the BCR2000.) This is to prove that good music doesn't take into consideration whether or not you use a Mac, Logic, Moog, Apogee, Genelec, Avalon, etc... but rather it's about the person mutating these sounds.

Now, who else is as Behringer obsessed as I am?

[Northern Light]

I have a few pieces of behringer gear
Truth B2031A's
and a UB1002
never really been dissapointed. They do exactly what I need them to and were priced great.

[DivineChemical]

Originally Posted by Northern Light

I have a few pieces of behringer gear
Truth B2031A's
and a UB1002
never really been dissapointed. They do exactly what I need them to and were priced great.

I like my B2031A's. I didn't like the 2092A when I first got it, but after fighting with my room and the settings on the back, it's very nice. They aren't the greatest monitors in the world, but they definitely get the job done.

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

I have made a conscious decision to use Behringer gear wherever possible

Thats like deciding to shove as much broken glass as possible in your bum. Everyone knows you shouldn't and can't understand why you would even try!

Actually, its not bad for the price BUT the mixers, I can say 100%, are noisey and I mean streets of New York at noon noisey. If hiss and distortion make a great recording, then you are on your way to Mecca!

It would be AWESOME if you went to a big studio and had them split all the mic signals from a session- one to your behringer rig and one to the SSL and racks of goo. Seriously, it would be interesting! You would get the same performance and micing... Then side by side, you could see if fidelity is really all that important!

[backhair]

Dan Snaith of Caribou (formerly Manitoba) fame is all about the lo-fi. i saw this video a while back and immediately felt stupid for pining after expensive gear.

YouTube - Caribou - Andorra mini documentary [BBC Collective]

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by backhair

Dan Snaith of Caribou (formerly Manitoba) fame is all about the lo-fi. i saw this video a while back and immediately felt stupid for pining after expensive gear.

YouTube - Caribou - Andorra mini documentary [BBC Collective]

Wow, I was kinda expecting more.

Funny, to me it sounds like the songs would improve DRASTICALLY with some proper production and recording. I thought it sounded like it was recorded in his living room.

If that makes you not pine for gear- then you were pining for the WRONG reasons to begin with.

That said, creatively its pretty good! Sonically, its ass....

[theblue1]

Having had several Behringer pieces before they got super affordable, I'm not in the Behringer-loving camp, by a long stretch. (A $350 Composer that died just out of warranty and two $250 5-band parametric EQ boxes that have absolutely the worst EQ of any mixer or other device I've had in over 25 years of ultra-low end recording. Admittedly, when I bought them, there wasn't much competition in that now-crowded price range.)


But I wanted to give you guys top props for tough-minded iconoclasm.

Or should I say... tough-minded econoclasm.

[DivineChemical]

Sure, using SSL would improve the quality of the sound, but is it really as important as everybody makes it out to be? People forget that the greatest albums in existence were recorded on pure crap. Skinny Puppy's first album was recorded on a Portastudio, afterall. Velvet Acid Christ's best selling album was mixed on a set of consumer home speakers.

Actually, these are the guys that made me finalize my decision to never go with the hifi trend: YouTube - OOMPH! - Gott ist ein Popstar These guys recorded their last couple albums using almost entirely Behringer gear. The only notable exception was that they used an RME HDSP 9652, but that was just to convert their ADA8000's. Sure, using some Distressors would have improved the quality of the sound, but it sounds fine the way it is now, imo. First listening to this stuff made me realize that the consumer is not going to care whether or not you used hi-end gear, so why should I bother with it? If I just utilize the bottom of the barrel gear and really get intimate with it, I can get good results.

Me likey this Caribou guy!

I guess I've gotten lucky as far as getting Behringer that's crapped out, because I've never had anything from them fail.

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

It seems like lately in the music production end of things, there's been a bit of an elitist attitude concerning the gear used to make music. (This isn't just on GearSlutz, it's all over the net in pretty much every forum.) To quote a friend "They're focusing too much on the paints and not the painting." It is for this reason that I have made a conscious decision to use Behringer gear wherever possible. I'm not doing this because I can't afford better, or I prefer them (except in certain circumstances like the V-Amp Pros and the BCR2000.) This is to prove that good music doesn't take into consideration whether or not you use a Mac, Logic, Moog, Apogee, Genelec, Avalon, etc... but rather it's about the person mutating these sounds.

Now, who else is as Behringer obsessed as I am?

Well, I'm saying this and I'm not trying to be rude/funny about it. If you are serious about this getting Behringer gear, give me a PM. I have quite a few pieces of the "older gear" that I'll sell you..cheap! Thing about it, like another poster, I've had this Behringer gear for years and it's never quit!....Still use a piece now and then! PM me....

[Acoustic Cloud]

At 2:30 from "oomph", I wonder what it means in German when he says, "My blouse is yours"...

is it a universal statement?!?!

Honestly, if the Caribou type no fi stuff is what you like, then nothing is broke, nuttin' to fix!

Heil ULI!!!

[backhair]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

Wow, I was kinda expecting more.

Funny, to me it sounds like the songs would improve DRASTICALLY with some proper production and recording. I thought it sounded like it was recorded in his living room.

If that makes you not pine for gear- then you were pining for the WRONG reasons to begin with.

That said, creatively its pretty good! Sonically, its ass....

i should have said:
"...felt stupid for pining after expensive gear instead of spending my time writing/recording"

granted, it does have a definite "bedroom" quality to the sound, but sometimes it's more important to crank out the song than worry how you're recording it. i know i'm not the only one who has ever had that mental block (however fleeting) of "if only i had a $2k preamp, my work would be so much more expressive!". when i was young and learning to play guitar, i got hung up on thinking "i can't make any decent songs until i have a marshall stack", but one day you realize that your friend who really sucks is just as bad through his marshall stack as he would be through your 15w practice amp.

look at some of the kinks stuff - the recordings are pretty bad, but the songs are so good it doesn't matter.

so would a great river sound better than a behringer ultratoobamizer? yeah, but sweating the details makes you loose sight of the bigger picture. plus, not everybody wants to make a record that sounds exactly like Led Zepplin II.

obviously it's a completely different matter if you're running a studio and aren't a home-recording boob like i am. if i was paying hundreds of dollars a day to record in a studio, i'd expect better than the ultratoobamizer

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by backhair

i should have said:
"...felt stupid for pining after expensive gear instead of spending my time writing/recording"

granted, it does have a definite "bedroom" quality to the sound, but sometimes it's more important to crank out the song than worry how you're recording it. i know i'm not the only one who has ever had that mental block (however fleeting) of "if only i had a $2k preamp, my work would be so much more expressive!". when i was young and learning to play guitar, i got hung up on thinking "i can't make any decent songs until i have a marshall stack", but one day you realize that your friend who really sucks is just as bad through his marshall stack as he would be through your 15w practice amp.

look at some of the kinks stuff - the recordings are pretty bad, but the songs are so good it doesn't matter.

so would a great river sound better than a behringer ultratoobamizer? yeah, but sweating the details makes you loose sight of the bigger picture. plus, not everybody wants to make a record that sounds exactly like Led Zepplin II.

obviously it's a completely different matter if you're running a studio and aren't a home-recording boob like i am. if i was paying hundreds of dollars a day to record in a studio, i'd expect better than the ultratoobamizer

I feel you! Yeah, I wrote and recorded for 15 years before I decided the RECORDING ITSELF actually mattered! Its wierd to see so many jump the gun and think a 2000 preamp writes great tunes! But yeah, I was coming from the fact I just bought stereo 1073s and they sound INCREDIBLE.... But if the song sucks you are absolutely right- Incredible sounding CRAP!

That link is testament to a good song and what it can do when it finds its audience- REGARDLESS of quality.

I had this shitty old Desmond Dekker live tape that was duped on a crap deck as well as Miles Davis Kinda Blue on tape. I bought the CDs but they don't have the memories the tape sound has for me. I don't listen to them at all. Just the tapes. Sound quality doesn't mean shit if its close to your heart!

[DivineChemical]

@2:30 on Gott ist Ein Popstar, it sounds more like 'Their blouse is yours.'

To this day, the song that haunts me the most and is always stuck in my head is one that was recorded on a Fisher Price tape recorder. If the song's good enough, it doesn't matter what you record it into or through.

And I fully agree with the amp comparison remark. I think it was Kirk Hammet that once said that a great guitarist knows how to make a twenty-dollar pawn shop guitar sound good. ...but then again, what does he know? He hasn't written a decent song in over fifteen years now.

[Freematik]

My problem with Behringer is not neccessarily the sound of the products. In some cases, Behringer products, while not hi fi, can work as good monitoring mixers for a low budget setup, their automation controllers and speakers aren't bad, etc.

The problem is that Behringer is an unethical company that blatantly steals other companies product designs, even down to the look, and then cheapens the product both in parts and labor, and turns the whole gear industry into a commodities market.

I admit that I buy grocery brand generic toothpaste, but since I spend all my time in my studio, I am not going to support a company that is forcing our industry to become generic (it is happening, PM me anytime). Behringer has been sued many times, so it is not just an opinion of mine that they are reverse-engineering.

I worked at a major recording equipment manufacturer for many years and still consult there to this day, and have worked in MI retail for 5 years as well, and now have my own company making gear. I can't tell you the number of times I have had to explain to people in person why this or that product is better than behringer. Behringer wins because the pro audio market and salesforce are dumbed down for the most part (GS members excluded ;-)), and on average people will believe the hype if the price is right.

I respect everyone that has a behringer product, I've owned some too, but try whenever possible to support the hard working boutique companies that are keeping great equipment design alive. We need to support them by buying their products, otherwise someday our only choice will be behringer!!!

yeah, and their mixer faders go bad in about a month, that too....

-Freematik

[backhair]

Originally Posted by whitepapagold

I was coming from the fact I just bought stereo 1073s and they sound INCREDIBLE....

drool... dude, if only i had your setup, my songs would be so much more...
*slaps self*

i can still be jealous, right?

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by Freematik

My problem with Behringer is not neccessarily the sound of the products. In some cases, Behringer products, while not hi fi, can work as good monitoring mixers for a low budget setup, their automation controllers and speakers aren't bad, etc.

The problem is that Behringer is an unethical company that blatantly steals other companies product designs, even down to the look, and then cheapens the product both in parts and labor, and turns the whole gear industry into a commodities market.

I admit that I buy grocery brand generic toothpaste, but since I spend all my time in my studio, I am not going to support a company that is forcing our industry to become generic (it is happening, PM me anytime). Behringer has been sued many times, so it is not just an opinion of mine that they are reverse-engineering.

I worked at a major recording equipment manufacturer for many years and still consult there to this day, and have worked in MI retail for 5 years as well, and now have my own company making gear. I can't tell you the number of times I have had to explain to people in person why this or that product is better than behringer. Behringer wins because the pro audio market and dumbed down for the most part (GS members excluded ;-)), and on average people will believe the hype if the price is right.

I respect everyone that has a behringer product, I've owned some too, but try whenever possible to support the hard working boutique companies that are keeping great equipment design alive. We need to support them by buying their products, otherwise someday our only choice will be behringer!!!

yeah, and their mixer faders go bad in about a month, that too....

-Freematik

Man, thats crazy.... Behringer wins because of PRICE. Period. If you can buy a boutique mixer for 70 bucks then thats a different story... Thats a strange accessment from an industry professional. The key to Behringers success has been PRICE POINT! Get a mackie for 1/4th the price... (and yes they are one of the companies that sued them) Mackie sueing them was just a brilliant marketing ploy- either they don't sue us and we steal their design, or they do sue us and everyone thinks a Behringer sounds as good as a mackie... man come on that was BRILLIANT!

And Ive owned both. Behringer is no mackie and that ain't sayin much...

[whitepapagold]

Originally Posted by backhair

drool... dude, if only i had your setup, my songs would be so much more...
*slaps self*

i can still be jealous, right?

Dude, I just had to remake (live show) Rythm Nation, Radio Killed the Video.., Beat it, I like to move it and "Don't cha wish your boyfriend was just like me" to pay for HALF OF ONE of those preamps... Im paying dearly in 80s blood and Im only 1/4 of the way there...

[vcovco]

Just can't resist...Proud owner of a Behringer Bass Vamp whatever its called. Sure it's not the best, and I knew it when I bought it, but it doesn't sound half bad. You don't need to spend a million bucks to get a good tone and make a decent recording. You need time and patience to build a little arsenal of semi-decent and carefully chosen gear with a low noise floor and lots of headroom...PERIOD. Maybe that would mean Behringer, maybe it wouldn't...Slutting to me is when you put your grasp of audio to work on cheap and cheerful equipment to create a pleasing sound.

And yes...if you run a studio and charge people high hourly prices, you don't want crap gear in your kit, either....

The snobs will disagree and poop out mega console names, but let's face it, if it sounds good, IT IS GOOD. Low end theory is where it's at baby!!

And if you have gripes with Behringer, quit shopping at Wal-mart and other 'big box' retail stores around the globe that hawk cheap imported goods and home furnishings that are all rip-offs of priceless industrial designs.

...and damnit..this beer tastes pretty good tonight!

[musicmind11]

OK The bottom line is that behringer equipment is made in china. I baught a tube composer used just to screw around with it (im learning how to electrical engineer) and man I was shocked! I opened it up and it looked like a little kid could have built the thing. Very very easy design. all circuitboards, a crappy looking power supply the outputs and wires ran from one part to the other being held down by GLUE!!!!! thats right glue gun glue was holding these wires to the frame. no neat tie downs no clips or anything to hold down the cabling just glue gun glue that was at once HOT melted glue that they just spat onto the wires that by the way are shielded by thin rubber. HOT GLUE gun glue + thin rubbered wire = my point. very crudely designed and quickly and effortlessly put together. I threw some GT tubes in it for the hell of it and was shocked also by the sound. It actually sounded decent on my synths. BUT you could definitely hear the compressor working. I do have to admit for the price it was ok if you were using it for a synth type application and lightly. But on a mix buss or drum parts, anything with high transients I dont think this thing would be usuable. At least not to me. But again I was surprised by the sound and to each there own , Im just saying If you dig behringer open a piece up and check out the build quality. If you dont care about build quality and the overall sound is decent to you for what you are using it for then GREAT! have fun =) but theres a saying in this world that "you get what you pay for" and the boutique companies I have to say do pump out some heavenly pieces, and now Purple audio is revolutionizing the price points for high quality stuff so YAY! k im done with my book now.

[DivineChemical]

Did somebody bring up ethics!? Since when does ethics matter in music? We've been stealing songs, designs, samples, gear, and software for eons.

And really, build quality shouldn't be an issue if it's just staying in your studio. If you were taking it out to do shows with, yeah, that would probably be a problem, but in a stationary environment (rack it and forget it!) nothing's going to to happen to it. Unless you get drunk and start kicking shit for no reason or something. Besides, it isn't like Behringer doesn't occasionally throw something original out there. Look at the Ultradyne or the BCR2000.

And I'll agree the Bass V-Amp is wicked awesome. I convinced myself to get it when I picked up the V-Amp Pro for my guitar tracks. I was comparing different amp modellers, and while almost everybody I know swears by either a Pod or a Digitech 2021, I liked the V-Amp Pro better because it was more flexible and could sound a lot meaner when pressuring it. The trick is you REALLY have to work with it because there isn't a single preset on there that's worth a crap.

And while I will swear by Behringer... I can't bring myself to use their mixers. I have to admit that those do suck. Then again, that's still not an issue for me as I only use line mixers while composing and then do my mixing inside the box. My signals never hit a hardware mixer.

[ddageek]

Let me put it this way Behringer is to gear what piracy is to buying music! Except for the fact that rather than stealing $1 from a millionaire you are stealing a $50-100 from some averge working class guys who are trying to help you make music!
Want generic affordable gear keep buying Behringer because when nobody can afford the investment to design lowend gear because Behringer will copy it anf undercut there price everybody will just re lable the same chinese crap as theres.




Wait..




its..











already happening!



what do I care I buy highend gear

[moon_unit]

If sound quality, audio / signal integrity are not of concern to you ...

... then have at it !

.

[PoorGlory]

Just because signal passes through it doesn't make it worthy of spending money on or using it on a piece of music that someone worked hard at writing.

You don't have to spend a fortune for great gear. For similar prices at which Behringer sells new gear, I've purchased Ashly, Symetrix, Aphex gear (among many others) that totally destroys the Behringer stuff in quality. I've owned Behringer shit, and still do (ADA8000). And I can say with only a couple exceptions, you can do far better. FAR better.

In general, Behringer stuff is for the lazy who don't want to do their research and hunt out good deals. Get a good piece of gear and compare it to the B. You'll see what I mean.

[DivineChemical]

Oh I know there's much better than Behringer out there and at reasonable prices. I'm saying that I can afford the high end stuff like Neve and Avalon, but I'm sticking with Behringer out of principle.

[LoopQuantum]

Originally Posted by DivineChemical

I'm sticking with Behringer out of principle.

Wow. Words I never thought I'd hear.

[johnbohn]

1. Being able to "record and mix" dance music can be done on behringer cause there's no much to it.
2. Sure I think the lo-fi thing is cool but swearing off of good high-quality gear is stupid. It's just a dumb statement.
3. If a client of yours put up the money to go track at The Record Plant or Blackbird... you'd go.

[Y-Studios]

I think you love Behringer to much! I own a Bcf2000 is not bad. Actually it works great on Pro Tools. But trying to get this thing to work 100% is a pain in the ass.


Behringer