Low end simple preamp for computer recording.

[Shadow_7]

I have a couple 1/8" mics that I need to have the input levels amped up to lower the gain settings on the computer/laptop so I can get a better sounding and less noisy recording. I don't need anything high end at the moment. But I would like something with variable gain. And maybe an XLR3 input option. I would ultimately like to get a higher end ribbon microphone eventually. But at the moment I'm looking at something portable and cheap. To be inputed to the onboard 1/8" mic port or usb port. None of my machines currently have firewire ports. I also run linux exclusively so it'll need to work in linux, or be hardware independant of the OS.

Something like this would suffice I suppose, but I would like a variable gain. Stereo input/output if possible. Other desireable, but not mandatory traits would be 2x XLR3 inputs for stereo recording, and a limiter.

http://www.btech-usa.com/bt26.htm

I would obviously have to adapter the mic cord to fit a 1/4" jack on this thing. And I would have to use a RCA to 1/8" cable to input to the mic port. Stuff which I probably already have laying about somewhere around here. Or can otherwise get off the shelf locally.

At the moment I have a few of these mics. And I can get a decent level on my computers with them, but I have to use the mic boost mixer option which puts a lot of hiss into the recorded track. I'd like to get around that by using a preamp. And I'd ultimately like to get a ribbon mic that will require a preamp.

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/

Any suggestions welcomed. Most of what I'll be recording is brass playing. Ensemble, and individual. I'm a trombone player by training myself. And can do a mediocre job on playing most brasses. I'm also in a drum and bugle corps that I'd like to record on my laptop with a portable and cheap solution. Since it'll be in the elements on occassion and maybe unsupervised and stealable. The laptop costs less than $400 new, and I don't want to exceed that for the preamp(s). My mic collection only being about $100 at the moment. So something $50 to $200 for the preamp would suffice.

Thanks.

[joeq]

the Rane MS 1b is a decent little preamp for not much money (about $150)

I have to say that I am dubious about any mic that comes with a 1/8" plug on the end!

for heaven's sake, buy an SM 57 or something!

[erosconpollo]

I've had pretty decent results plugging older high-impedance 1/4" mikes into the M-Audio DMP3. Whether your microphones would sound okay is anyone's guess, but the DMP3 should have pretty much all you would need at this point (including plenty of gain).

[Shadow_7]

The M-Audio dmp3 looks nice. The Rane MS-1 isn't going to work as I currently have no XLR3 mics. There's a reasonably priced VTB-1 on craigslist. And an M-Audio Delta-44. The 1/8" mics I have do a much better job than the high end sony headphones I was using as a mic. I will eventually get a real mic. But until I have a way of interfacing XLR3 mics with a computers sound card it'd be pointless as I have no other recording equipment at the moment.

The edirol UA-25 is one possiblity I've looked at. But I'd want something usb 2.0-ish with higher sampling capabilities if I went that route. But most of the usb devices are antiquated and poorly supported in linux. Unless the device is usb class compliant, which seems to be the exception, not the rule. There's a number of firewire devices supported. But like my XLR3 dilema, I currently have no firewire ports. And adding one to my laptop isn't an option. It'd probably cost more than the laptop did.

Ultimately I'll get a ribbon mic. Cascade FatHead II or AEA R84 or similar. Which are known for low signal levels and require a preamp. I can get a decent level with the small mics on my computers, but the gain used to get that level makes the noises of the electronics very noticeable. Hence the preamp to overcome this attribute. And give me an XLR3 interface eventually. Until I can do what I want to do on the low/cheap end. Getting higher end equipment isn't going to do me any good.

[dickiefunk]

Why not get the EMU 0404USB?

E-MU Systems - 0404 USB 2.0 - USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface

This will give you 2 mic preamps AND a decent USB 2.0 Audio Interface all in one!! If you have $400 to spend you could get one of these and a couple of decent mics!!

[Shadow_7]

At the time that I was looking I couldn't find any definitive answer as to whether E-MU usb stuff worked in linux. And since linux is my primary OS to the point of completely hosing any hint of windows, I need that warm fuzzy first. As far as linux, E-MU doesn't even have a listing in the alsa soundcard matrix. Not to imply that it doesn't work, as it will "IF" it's "class complaint". But there's no definite yes saying that it is or is not supported. And I'm not that much of a gambler. And it's not exactly something I can pull off the shelf and check the box for class compliant / linux useable.

Anyway, I went and got a used M-Audio Delta 44($100). And aside from spending a fair percentage of the savings on adapters to be able to use it with my hardware, it's a nice piece of equipment. My CDs and magnaplanar speakers never sounded so good. But I am so in need of a preamp. The input level is so low on this that it registers as a flat line waveform in ardour. But when normalized it reveals a well captured recording. Aside from the highly amplified background hiss. Albeit a much more pleasant and steady hiss than the onboard sound. With a preamp, this piece of hardware is gonna sound sweet. Or maybe I just need to figure out the mixer settings. There's only 41 different items to be adjusted in alsamixer.

I guess I'm hounding craigslist until an M-Audio DMP3 comes up. There's a couple of nice used mics out there now. I just need the preamp first.

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

I guess I'm hounding craigslist until an M-Audio DMP3 comes up. There's a couple of nice used mics out there now. I just need the preamp first.

You can definitely do a lot worse! If you need a couple of decent starter mics check out the Studio Projects B1 or CAD M177 / M179. One of these mics coupled with a DMP3 and Delta 44 will give you a very decent sound!

[Shadow_7]

I seemed to have hit a hitch in my get-a-long. Not wanting to part serious money on a dedicated preamp, I opted to get a used M-Audio MobilePre. For $80, I can't really complain. But it's made me aware of something. Aparently the mic-in port on most computers have a bit of current running through them to power the mics you plug into those. And that is apparently why you can plug a pair of headphones in the mic port and use them as a mic. I have a number of 1/8" mics that have no power of their own. And these mics do NOT work on this unit. However my decade plus old Radio Shack Optimus mono mic that takes 1 AAA battery does work on it. It's the only mic I own that does.

I was previously unaware of this and I seemed to have missed any indication in the product propaganda advertising this. I got this unit to get more gain on my 1/8" mics. I guess I'm glad to have been educated about this on a $80 piece of equipment than a $250+ piece.

The only other issue I have had with the unit is that the usb cord that came with it was faulty. I had to partially pull it back out to get the unit to power on. I borrowed a usb cord from a usb harddrive and no complaints since. Solid as a rock. And linux compatible. Apparently USB Compliant. Aside from stereo XLR inputs I've gained no functionality for my laptop with this piece of equipment. I was hoping to gain stereo 1/8" input as my laptop is only mono input. Which is why I popped for it instead of a used "mono" VTB-1 for $20 more.

So is this powered/unpowered mic thing common knowledge? Is there such a thing as a powered 1/8" stereo microphone? Or a powered adapter that might let me use my existing unpowered microphones?

Had I bought this unit new, I might have returned it to the vender thinking it was broken. Only half of it worked in my eyes, output only, no input. Until my antique worked and I spotting a short mention of normal computer mics being powered by the computer in the manual. Anyway armed with this knowledge, I don't "need" a preamp for my Delta 44. I need a powered mic. My antique gets a noticeable level on the 44 of about 10% with mic input levels maxed and talking at a normal level with the mic in close proximity. But the recorded track normalizes to a good level with low to no noise. Which is a vast improvement over my laptop.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

...
Aside from stereo XLR inputs I've gained no functionality for my laptop with this piece of equipment. I was hoping to gain stereo 1/8" input as my laptop is only mono input.

If the purchase of this box with it's XLR inputs forces you to buy some "real" mics with XLRs, in the long run it will be the best thing that could have happened to you.

Seriously, throw away the crappy mics. tutt

So is this powered/unpowered mic thing common knowledge? Is there such a thing as a powered 1/8" stereo microphone? Or a powered adapter that might let me use my existing unpowered microphones?

I see that the MobilePre has phantom power - This is the only 'powered' mic option that I know of. Phantom power doesn't make the mic 'louder'- it just enables the mic to work at all. Have you tried the phantom power switch on the mics that don't work?

Usually cheap condenser mics (the kind with 1/8" plugs) would take a battery if they needed phantom power, but who knows?


Looking at the photo of the back of the unit, it seems that the only 1/8" jack on it is a stereo jack for a two-channel microphone. There may some connectivity issues plugging mono mics into a stereo jack. You might try not pushing it all the way in, just to the 'first click'.

Or you could go to Radio Shack and buy a dual mono to stereo adapter that will allow you to plug both mics into the one jack


Just don't buy any more Realistic mics while you are there.

[Gear Tramp]

Why even bother?

This isn't like trading Fleer.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by Gear Tramp

Why even bother?

This isn't like trading Fleer.

What about vintage Topps?

Hes right though, if you want a good bit o' candy after school for 5 cents, when the rest of the kids on the bus have saved up 30 cents, you're not going to get much, no matter how many opinions you get.

[Shadow_7]

The little mics I have are decent mics. Maybe not realistic in sound, but decent. Better than the pair of headphones I was using as a mic. For the portabilitiy aspect that I wanted them for, they work fine. Anyway, I've identified a 9V box/adapter which might help make them work with the new box.

http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com...atterybox.html

I was previously unaware of the bias voltage for mics that work in computers and most mobile recorders. And I didn't think the mobile pre's 1/8" inputs would be different than those devices. Apparently it's a lne in and not a mic in. Good for transfering your LP collection. Just not for unpowered mics.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by Shadow_7

The little mics I have are decent mics. Maybe not realistic in sound, but decent. Better than the pair of headphones I was using as a mic.

OK, now you are just f*cking with us.

For the portabilitiy aspect that I wanted them for, they work fine. Anyway, I've identified a 9V box/adapter which might help make them work with the new box.

9 Volt Battery Power Supply for Stereo and Mono Microphones

you have got to be kidding

I was previously unaware of the bias voltage for mics that work in computers and most mobile recorders. And I didn't think the mobile pre's 1/8" inputs would be different than those devices. Apparently it's a lne in and not a mic in. Good for transfering your LP collection. Just not for unpowered mics.

You are incorrect. See here.

The 1/8" input jack on the MobilePre is a stereo mic level in.


The MobilePre has phantom power. Now you want to spend $60 on an unnecessary crappy box to put in front of the MobilePre and further degrade your sound, so you can continue to use your crappy mics?

You have $60 to throw away on an "adapter for your adapter" but you don't have $89 to buy an SM 57?

[Shadow_7]

I suppose it could be that my device is not functional in that input. I did get it used. But it definitely differs in function from the '1/8" stereo mic input' of my nVidia MCP61 that's part of the onboard soundcard of my desktop, or the ATI IXP mono input of my laptop. It even says it differs in the MobilePre manual. As far as I can tell it's a difference of a bias voltage(+5V). But I wont know if that's the case until I get the adapter to the adapter. BTW I have about $200 worth of various 1/8" bias voltage powered mics. So it's not really a matter of $89 for one mic. As I'll in essence be throwing away $200 in other mics if I don't go the adapter route. I suppose I could make my own adapter for much less.

Powering microphones

With that being said, I am looking at other "real" microphones in addition to existing equipment and the SM57 is NOT my first choice. I suppose that if I could get one used for $50 I probably would. But as far as XLR mics, I'd want something higher end. Or that at least specs to 20Hz - 20kHz. The Cascade FatHead II being rather nice. In the meantime I'm scoping out craigslist for other deals. I don't imagine that I could walk into radio shack and pull an SM57 off the shelf. Or maybe I could, I haven't really checked.

[7161]

what avout the sm pro audio tb202 - dual mic preamp - phantom power, 20dB pad, optical compressor, EQ, 2x line/hi-Z input

here's a 3d view of it:

SM PRO AUDIO TB202 big view - U.K. International Cyberstore

or the SPL Goldmike 2-channel Class A tube preamp, 48V phantom power, phase reverse, pad, flair switch.

SPL GOLDMIKE 9844 big view - U.K. International Cyberstore

[dickiefunk]

Originally Posted by 7161

what avout the sm pro audio tb202 - dual mic preamp - phantom power, 20dB pad, optical compressor, EQ, 2x line/hi-Z input

here's a 3d view of it:

SM PRO AUDIO TB202 big view - U.K. International Cyberstore

or the SPL Goldmike 2-channel Class A tube preamp, 48V phantom power, phase reverse, pad, flair switch.

SPL GOLDMIKE 9844 big view - U.K. International Cyberstore

The Goldmike is very nice. I have had fair experience with one of these. When it came to buying a pre myself I went for the DMP3 - couldn't justify the extra money for the Goldmike! The Joemeek 3Q, Studio Projects VTB1 and Electro Harmonix 12 AY7 are also very nice in this price bracket

[filthyrich]

+1 on the SP VTB1. I've had it for over 4 years and gotten some great sounds from it. You could also get a small mixer..like this.

Buy Peavey PV6 Mixer online at Musician's Friend

You can plug in two mics, pan one to the L and one to the R.....run stereo outs into your soundcard and viola!

If you only need one channel at a time though; just go for the vtb1 and use a stereo splitter or something to go out from it. Or, just record in mono.

[aussie_techie]

your planning to buy a $1000 mic but you dont want to buy any kind of decent pre or interface that is crazy. ribbons need a lot of CLEAN gain from a quality pre, a cheapo pre wont do it.
i understand wanting to use linux but its just not going to happen with professional audio equipment, or most professional equipment for that matter. get your self a mac book, install X11 and compile your other apps for OS X you can install gnome or anything else if you want to, then you can buy a decent Firewire interface and then you can look at good mics pres etc

[Acoustic Cloud]

Aussie,

Most people I know that have bought, very nice mics averaging 2-3000 dollars apiece, have no problems with a 49 dollar preamp making them sound awesome.

Some have even ventured into the 100 dollar realm......but at that price, its overkill.

[aussie_techie]

ive recorded plenty of good and great tracks with good mics into cheep pres or vice versa but come on a ribbon into a $50 pre into an 1/8" plug on a consumer sound card ....
even alot of good pres ive used with ribbons have more noise than is desirable and most cheap pres are going be noisier than those, unbalanced cables will pick up some noise, 1/8" plugs always seem to be the quickest to start having problems, consumer sound card are going to have add more noise than is desirable all together it going to be a a noisey and low quality recording.

im not saying you need a $2000 with a $2000 pre and a $2000 interface im just saying you want something reasonable.

[Shadow_7]

Originally Posted by aussie_techie

im not saying you need a $2000 with a $2000 pre and a $2000 interface im just saying you want something reasonable.

I 'm not saying that I wouldn't "want" such things. But for the application I intend to use it for I don't "need" such things. I'll be recording rehearsals in gyms, cafeterias, and outdoors. Not the best accoustics to be had to start with. And given that I'll be performing with the group(s) as well, I don't want something too high end that could "walk off" while I'm not looking.

A used $80 Mobile Pre fits the bill. But I was hoping to use my $20 computer mic, which I can't do without a bias voltage. For home use I'll have "better" equipment, but I'm not really wanting to exceed $500 for everything. I'm still in the proof on concept stage. aka "Can" I do it. Can I do it "well" may come a bit later.

Sure, I'd like to have 36 bit @ 192kHz sampling with a mic that can pick up 10Hz to 50kHz. To be played back on a stereo system capable of reproduction at the same or better specs. But realistically that can't be had for under $500, if at all.

[joeq]

Shadow 7, you are totally missing the point here.

Everyone is basically steering you in the same direction which is AWAY from your crappy computer mics. Virtually none of the well-intentioned preamp suggestions given here even HAVE 1/8" jacks and I bet some the posters would be shocked to realize that you are insisting that the proposed preamp work with these POS mics.

You are so desperate to hang on to your 'investment' in these mics that you reject all these reasonable proposals for inexpensive preamps because they don't work with your existing shitty mics. You have even gone so far as to purchase a Mobil Pre which has a USB converter included even though your Delta is already a converter and all you really needed was a straight-up preamp.

You are wasting money duplicating your efforts. Why? Because the Mobil Pre has a 1/8" jack?

You have come to this site asking for advice, and believe me, these are the people whose advice you should be taking, but you are too stubborn to take that advice. If you want advice on consumer crap, go to a consumer crap web forum. And if you already know what you are going to do, why bother to post?


People have taken time out of their busy day to kindly advise you on what would be the best course for you and you are disrespecting their efforts by arguing for your crap mics. On the off chance that you are not a troll, and that you really do want to know what to do, here it is one last time:

The microphone is the one element in the chain that REALLY MATTERS. You now have the Mobil Pre, it is a preamp and a converter, you can sell the Delta and get a REAL MIC.

Stop bullshitting us about how poor you are- (how you had to use headphones for a mic) you can obviously spend your money on $200 worth of CRAP and then throw MORE MONEY after it trying to buy overpriced adapters and interfaces to make your crap work with REAL equipment. You say you have a $200 'investment' in these mics and later you say it's a $20 mic. What, do you have TEN of them?

Add up all the money you are spending on duplicate gear and 'adapters' and you would have enough for a real mic.

Stop bullshitting us on how you don't "need" a high-end mic. Nobody is suggesting you get a high end mic. Just a REAL mic. And are you really worried that someone is going to steal your "expensive" XLR mic but somehow not take your computer?

Get rid of the lower than low-end mics. NOW. Make that the first step in your upgrade.

If there is one Gearslut reading this thread who thinks Shadow 7 should continue to buy adapters and stuff with the goal of making his 1/8" computer mics the centerpiece of this recording setup, let him post now.

[Shadow_7]

You seem to be missing the point as well. My question was not "what would the pros do"? It was how do I make this(existing stuff) work? (NOTE: Forum catagory == Low End Theory) But the prevailing answer seems to be abondon ship, swim to shore, and buy a yacht next time.

For my needs, I need something cheap, so if it breaks or gets stolen, I'm not out loads of money and can replace it quickly and cheaply. And if I want to enable peers to do the same, it's a stocking stuffer, not a marraige license.

Yes I have the Delta 44 which I adore. And as of today, I now have an AT 4033a real mic. And an Art Tube MP preamp. And for home studio use those are fine and dandy. But I'm looking for a cheaper alternative to record outdoors in the elements. And in other conditions where space and power are minimal, and mobility is king.

I had originally thought that my PC mics didn't work because they needed a preamp to give off a strong enough signal to register. But it turns out it was the missing bias voltage. Something which all of my lower end onboard soundcards have had builtin. And something which my ancient radio shack mic has builtin. And something which I thought the Mobile Pre had built in, if only because it had the same input jack size. So it turns out the original answer to how do I make existing stuff work is an adapter. And I guess I've opted to buy the yacht too.