Recommended microphones for stereo pairs

jacktadoussac · 15th September 2007, 12:05 PM

Preamble: As a traditionalist or minimalist (or fifty year old geezer) and to honor the fact that lots of old tape recorders had only two channels I've never really been inspired to mess around with sound on sound and multi-tracking and mixing. Thus my Zen (or desire) is to use a stereo pair to record everything, which is usually one voice and one guitar, but could grow to be several voices and one or two guitars, and possibly a snare drum.

The microphone pairs I've used include:

SM57 - very well balanced
EV635 -- very clear on the guitar, a bit trebly on vocals
EV RE20 -- some pops on guitar, a bit throaty on voice, especially spoken word.

I'm curious if any folks out there have tried out other pairs of mics in the same application (stereo pair with no close micing):

Condensers: Gefell M930, Shure SM81, Neumann KM184, Oktava

Dynamics: Shure SM7b

Any other possibilities? I've always admired those DPA mics, the standard omni and cardioid (4003, 4006, 4011, 4012) -- but some say you get accuracy and frequency response at the expense of a clinical sound.

upinflames · 15th September 2007, 03:23 PM

The RE20 is a good microphone for some voices, but by your description it doesn't sound like it works for you. Maybe you should try a large diaphragm condenser for your voice instead.

Anyway, I've never seen anyone use a stereo pair to record vocals. For guitar I like to use a Sennheiser MD421 and an SM57, sometimes two SM57s, an AKG C414-B-XLS and a SM57 or MD421, or I just use one of the above microphones. For drums I use SM81s, they are the best thing I've tried but if you have a good room a pair of AKG C414s can be amazing. You can also use them for M/S, but I don't think for what you are doing that's much of a selling point (I like to use it for acoustic piano)

I think the SM81s would be a good choice. You could use them on acoustic guitar and get great results as well.

Does that help?

Notron Fan · 15th September 2007, 03:46 PM

Aren't most of the mics listed dynamics?

I was just thinking that I ran across the Lavry Mini prs-2 usb preamp/ad box that sold for $250. 2 channels intended for minimalist location recording with dynamic mics.

Just a thought...

Schoeps is another brand that springs to mind. with the cmc5/6 bodies and the mk2 mk2 s or h model omnis and so forth.

that said, you can be a cheapskate and play around with some inexpensive microphones like the naiant msh-1 which is a simple $25 omni built around a panasonic mic element. It's noise floor isn't as low as a schoeps microphone, but it gives you a lot of the benefits of an uncolored omni.

You could also get a pair of oktava mk-012's from the soundroom (oktava.com?) But I'd also recommend checking out the t.h.e. mics from the oktava.com

The problem with schoeps, dpa and the like is that the dollar is so weak right now.

I bought a pair of schoeps mics with cmc6 bodies and mk2 s capsules back in 2000. The prices were a lot better back then.

Another thing to try (minimally speaking) is a pair of ribbon microphones.

What pre are you using? I think that the consensus is that the dav broadhurst gardens (bg1) is superb yet affordable.

lancebug · 15th September 2007, 03:54 PM

As long as this is low end, I like my pair of m179's for stereo work. On the very low end the mxl 603 does well too. I think I got my pair for around $75.

Notron Fan · 15th September 2007, 05:57 PM

Don't forget the avenson omnis.

jacktadoussac · 15th September 2007, 06:00 PM

Thanks for the input. I've got two alternative 'rigs' for audio only as well as a Beachtek black box (microphone preamp) for use with a camcorder (line level plus modest or medium preamplification for use with dynamic mic (no phantom).

Audio rigs:

1. Lavry Mini PRS plus Windows laptop

2. TC Electronic Konnekt 24D plus same laptop
Swedish Line Audio 2MP (2 channel mic pre with phantom power)...also can be used with the camcorder

Commentary:

1. I must admit I focused on dynamic mics mainly because my initial rig number 1 and the camcorder plus Beachtek micpre 'constrained' me towards dynamic mics.

Now that I have this Swedish mic pre I can go wild and consider condensers and even ribbons...but I don't think I want to go beyond using a pair of mics but that could be an Achilles heel or self-defeating or something -- but my homegrown theory of audio engineering is that it's easier to deal with a pair of mics, ideally set up in an XY configuration, especially if you're trying to do the recording at the same time you're playing.

2. My next possible candidate is an XY Stereo mic by Line Audio of Sweden (about 1/4 the price of a pair of M930), but obviously you can set up some pretty good stereo pairs of Oktavia , Shure SM81, and of course that AKG 414 (multiple patterns)...

3. On my pair of RE20, it's probably an unusual stereo pair. I find I have to be careful more with flat-picking than with vocals...but it seems to easily clip. I may need to use a Stedman filter or something that fits the mic. In all fairness, I should get this things working properly before changing everything...

Additional (deep) thoughts....

Perhaps a compressor of some kind of leveling is the ticket...but then you're adding to the complexity.

The Shure SM7b might be better than the RE20 as an XY stereo pair....a pair of Cole 4038 might sound lovely but I suspect a Swedish stereo mic would be more economical.

rufus13 · 13th July 2008, 06:37 PM

3. On my pair of RE20, it's probably an unusual stereo pair. I find I have to be careful more with flat-picking than with vocals...but it seems to easily clip. -jacktadoussac

Clipping an RE-20? These have tremendous max spl capability before distortion or bottoming out begins. They also have pretty-high electrical output for a dynamic mic. Your pre-amp might be clipping, so try a pad.

Cheers.

Timothy Lawler · 15th July 2008, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacktadoussac

...I'm curious if any folks out there have tried out other pairs of mics in the same application (stereo pair with no close micing):

At the low end of the spectrum, Naiant omnis in a spaced pair get good sound quality for almost no money.

Quote:

I've always admired those DPA mics, the standard omni and cardioid (4003, 4006, 4011, 4012) -- but some say you get accuracy and frequency response at the expense of a clinical sound

I have Schoeps mic's, which are in the same realm as DPA. No, not clinical. Accurate. If the source sounds clinical, the recording will. If the source sounds passionate, the recording will.

Dog_Chao_Chao · 15th July 2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Lawler

I have Schoeps mic's, which are in the same realm as DPA. No, not clinical. Accurate. If the source sounds clinical, the recording will. If the source sounds passionate, the recording will.

I´ve always prefered musical against clinical. From the day I got the schoeps Ive been presented with the most amazing and passionate recordings. It makes such a delight to hear any acoustic instrument. Its one piece of gear that I felt it really took my recordings to a next level.

bwaudio · 16th July 2008, 04:01 AM

A pair of SM57s.

With good preamps, compression, and talent, they will work wonders.

dadumtish · 16th July 2008, 12:02 PM

iagree and would also say the same about russian oktava mk12's

d_fu · 16th July 2008, 12:56 PM

Consider a stereo pair of Beyerdynamic MC 930.

bdasilva · 17th July 2008, 02:19 AM

QFT

I just bought a set of MC-930s... They are becoming my go to mic.

Barnabas · 17th July 2008, 04:10 AM

The SM81s you mentioned would be a good choice. I use a pair in XY to record choirs, orchestras, jazz bands, etc. Many times I add close-up mics, but usually most of the sound comes from the pair of SM81s.

biggator6 · 22nd July 2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

I like my pair of m179's for stereo work.

GordZilla · 22nd July 2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadumtish

iagree and would also say the same about russian oktava mk12's

Oh yeah...the MC-012s (MK-012s) make a very nice stereo mic'ing set indeed ... I have a pair and I love my little Russian friends!

Especially if you get the 3-capsule set...which has cardoid, omni, and hyper-cardoid capsules.... very versatile. Great for all the usual coincidental stereo mic techniques like X/Y and ORTF. And of course the omni caps are super for spaced pair. They sound utterly fantastic... open and neutral, with very good detail.

And if you have them modded by Oktavamod.com, you will have AWESOME mics.... some say even comparable (arguably) to KM184s

dude24man · 22nd July 2008, 11:33 PM

akg 451b pair. arty

Dms Recording Studio - Full Service Recording Studio

1monkey1 · 23rd July 2008, 02:58 AM

a pair of ksm 32s is real nice.
great on overheads, upright bass, horns.

versatile workhorse.

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15th September 2007, 12:05 PM	#1
jacktadoussac Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79	Recommended microphones for stereo pairs Preamble: As a traditionalist or minimalist (or fifty year old geezer) and to honor the fact that lots of old tape recorders had only two channels I've never really been inspired to mess around with sound on sound and multi-tracking and mixing. Thus my Zen (or desire) is to use a stereo pair to record everything, which is usually one voice and one guitar, but could grow to be several voices and one or two guitars, and possibly a snare drum. The microphone pairs I've used include: SM57 - very well balanced EV635 -- very clear on the guitar, a bit trebly on vocals EV RE20 -- some pops on guitar, a bit throaty on voice, especially spoken word. I'm curious if any folks out there have tried out other pairs of mics in the same application (stereo pair with no close micing): Condensers: Gefell M930, Shure SM81, Neumann KM184, Oktava Dynamics: Shure SM7b Any other possibilities? I've always admired those DPA mics, the standard omni and cardioid (4003, 4006, 4011, 4012) -- but some say you get accuracy and frequency response at the expense of a clinical sound.

15th September 2007, 03:23 PM	#2
upinflames Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 781	The RE20 is a good microphone for some voices, but by your description it doesn't sound like it works for you. Maybe you should try a large diaphragm condenser for your voice instead. Anyway, I've never seen anyone use a stereo pair to record vocals. For guitar I like to use a Sennheiser MD421 and an SM57, sometimes two SM57s, an AKG C414-B-XLS and a SM57 or MD421, or I just use one of the above microphones. For drums I use SM81s, they are the best thing I've tried but if you have a good room a pair of AKG C414s can be amazing. You can also use them for M/S, but I don't think for what you are doing that's much of a selling point (I like to use it for acoustic piano) I think the SM81s would be a good choice. You could use them on acoustic guitar and get great results as well. Does that help? __________________ The Studio is moving and tracking starts on two albums next week!

13th July 2008, 06:37 PM	#7
rufus13 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 468	clipping an RE-20? 3. On my pair of RE20, it's probably an unusual stereo pair. I find I have to be careful more with flat-picking than with vocals...but it seems to easily clip. -jacktadoussac Clipping an RE-20? These have tremendous max spl capability before distortion or bottoming out begins. They also have pretty-high electrical output for a dynamic mic. Your pre-amp might be clipping, so try a pad. Cheers. __________________ "The cost of acceptable mediocrity has come way down, but that has nothing to do with excellence." - Bob Olhsson, 01Sept2007, 12:44 PM GS post Q:What about Engineer qualifications? "I look for one that will keep his hands away from the knobs." -Norman Granz, interview R-E/P p.22 Aug 1977 "It's not how old you are, it's how well you work." Jim Williams Audio Upgrades

16th July 2008, 04:01 AM	#10
bwaudio Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 83	A pair of SM57s. With good preamps, compression, and talent, they will work wonders. __________________ Rich blackandwhiteaudio.com indie-action.com "Hello mother leopard. I have your cub."

15th September 2007, 03:46 PM	#3
Notron Fan Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: PDX Posts: 59	Aren't most of the mics listed dynamics? I was just thinking that I ran across the Lavry Mini prs-2 usb preamp/ad box that sold for $250. 2 channels intended for minimalist location recording with dynamic mics. Just a thought... Schoeps is another brand that springs to mind. with the cmc5/6 bodies and the mk2 mk2 s or h model omnis and so forth. that said, you can be a cheapskate and play around with some inexpensive microphones like the naiant msh-1 which is a simple $25 omni built around a panasonic mic element. It's noise floor isn't as low as a schoeps microphone, but it gives you a lot of the benefits of an uncolored omni. You could also get a pair of oktava mk-012's from the soundroom (oktava.com?) But I'd also recommend checking out the t.h.e. mics from the oktava.com The problem with schoeps, dpa and the like is that the dollar is so weak right now. I bought a pair of schoeps mics with cmc6 bodies and mk2 s capsules back in 2000. The prices were a lot better back then. Another thing to try (minimally speaking) is a pair of ribbon microphones. What pre are you using? I think that the consensus is that the dav broadhurst gardens (bg1) is superb yet affordable.

15th September 2007, 03:54 PM	#4
lancebug Gear Head Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 74	As long as this is low end, I like my pair of m179's for stereo work. On the very low end the mxl 603 does well too. I think I got my pair for around $75.

15th September 2007, 05:57 PM	#5
Notron Fan Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: PDX Posts: 59	Don't forget the avenson omnis.

15th September 2007, 06:00 PM	#6
jacktadoussac Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 79	Thanks for the input. I've got two alternative 'rigs' for audio only as well as a Beachtek black box (microphone preamp) for use with a camcorder (line level plus modest or medium preamplification for use with dynamic mic (no phantom). Audio rigs: 1. Lavry Mini PRS plus Windows laptop 2. TC Electronic Konnekt 24D plus same laptop Swedish Line Audio 2MP (2 channel mic pre with phantom power)...also can be used with the camcorder Commentary: 1. I must admit I focused on dynamic mics mainly because my initial rig number 1 and the camcorder plus Beachtek micpre 'constrained' me towards dynamic mics. Now that I have this Swedish mic pre I can go wild and consider condensers and even ribbons...but I don't think I want to go beyond using a pair of mics but that could be an Achilles heel or self-defeating or something -- but my homegrown theory of audio engineering is that it's easier to deal with a pair of mics, ideally set up in an XY configuration, especially if you're trying to do the recording at the same time you're playing. 2. My next possible candidate is an XY Stereo mic by Line Audio of Sweden (about 1/4 the price of a pair of M930), but obviously you can set up some pretty good stereo pairs of Oktavia , Shure SM81, and of course that AKG 414 (multiple patterns)... 3. On my pair of RE20, it's probably an unusual stereo pair. I find I have to be careful more with flat-picking than with vocals...but it seems to easily clip. I may need to use a Stedman filter or something that fits the mic. In all fairness, I should get this things working properly before changing everything... Additional (deep) thoughts.... Perhaps a compressor of some kind of leveling is the ticket...but then you're adding to the complexity. The Shure SM7b might be better than the RE20 as an XY stereo pair....a pair of Cole 4038 might sound lovely but I suspect a Swedish stereo mic would be more economical.

16th July 2008, 12:02 PM	#11
dadumtish Gear Head Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 67	iagree and would also say the same about russian oktava mk12's

16th July 2008, 12:56 PM	#12
d_fu Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 1,323	Consider a stereo pair of Beyerdynamic MC 930.

17th July 2008, 02:19 AM	#13
bdasilva Gear Head Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 31	QFT I just bought a set of MC-930s... They are becoming my go to mic.

17th July 2008, 04:10 AM	#14
Barnabas Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 177	The SM81s you mentioned would be a good choice. I use a pair in XY to record choirs, orchestras, jazz bands, etc. Many times I add close-up mics, but usually most of the sound comes from the pair of SM81s. __________________ Chris Droessler Barnabas MultiMedia

22nd July 2008, 11:33 PM	#17
dude24man Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: clarksville ny Posts: 152	akg 451b pair. arty Dms Recording Studio - Full Service Recording Studio

23rd July 2008, 02:58 AM	#18
1monkey1 Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 226	a pair of ksm 32s is real nice. great on overheads, upright bass, horns. versatile workhorse. __________________ steven walcott www.engine-studios.com

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