Help Upgrading: No Budget -> Low Budget

[Half-cup]

Greetings--

I've assembled a project studio using scrounged/hand-me-down/begged/borrowed/pulled-out-of-the-attic
equipment. It works, but I know some (most/all) of it is garbage and, at this point, I'm dedicated to playing and recording enough to start investing some moolah. Alas, I'm poor as hell and humbly ask for your assistance getting the most bang-for-my-buck.

I record drums and electric bass mainly, but also will occasionally
overdub vocals and guitar. Not boxed into any particular style, so versatility is a plus.

Current chain runs like this:

Audix Fusion 7pc. drum mic kit ->
Behringer Eurorack MX2004A ->
(2) M-Audio Delta66 ->
P3/Win2000/Cubase SX 2 ->
Realistic (RatShack!) STA-720 stereo receiver ->
Alesis Monitor Twos.

Bass goes: Gallien Kreuger 1001RB -> Behringer Eurorack via direct out and onward from there...

My thoughts at the moment:

Maybe a firepod? How would that compare to keeping the Deltas and just buying preamps?

My monitoring setup: A proper amp to drive those Alesis would probably give me a big improvement, but I'm in a small room and suspect a decent pair of nearfields would suit me better than the the MonitorTwos.

Maybe a better pair of overheads for the drums?

The PC isn't really an issue (already have an upgrade in the works).

Where would you start? I'm on a budget of $500-$1000. Where can I invest the money that I'm going to say "Wow! I wish had done that a long time ago!"??

Sincerely yours,
Half-cup

[8th_note]

I started from a similar situation except I had a Mackie instead of a Behr mixer. I had a Delta 66 when I started and now I have that plus a Delta 1010. Here's my thoughts;

Microphones make the most difference. Audix mics have a good rep so I would stick with those for now. For recording bass you should definitely have a Sansamp Bass Driver DI. This doesn't mean that you will always forgo recording through your cab but the Sansamp is very useful. For a bass cab mic I have found that an MXL 2001 works really well. You can pick up one of these used for under $50.

I would suggest as a starting point that you get either an Electro Harmonix 12AY7 preamp or an ART MPA Gold. The EH pre is only about $190 and the ART pre (2 channels) can be had for under $300. This made a significant difference in my recordings. It's worth investing in one of these and seeing what it does for your tracks. Another preamp to try is the Presonus BlueTube (older model). You can pick these up for 50 bucks on ebay and they work pretty well for drums - I would expect that they would sound quite a bit better than your Behringer preamps.

See what you get from an upgraded preamp. You don't have enough money to upgrade your monitoring system yet so I would focus on preamps at this point.

Note: When you get a new preamp plug it directly into your Delta 66 - don't go through your Behringer. This will make a big difference in the sound.

[hgen]

I'd buy 2 AT4040, cheap on Ebay $200 ish , and 1st choice for ppl who have every mic, for Overheads. Nice for Vocals and Cabs and Acoustic too. A mic that won't need upgrading, always useful, great all-rounder!

[Tom Hakala]

At4040 is truly a workhorse. Nice to have a pair around. Although I like At4047 more, but I would never sell my 4040's. Great on floor toms, room mic... IMO a nice bang for the buck. You will always find some use for them even if you have "better" and more expensive options in your locker...

a nice review of it here:

Mojo Pie -- Review of Audio-Technica AT4040 microphone

[Wayne]

If you haven't yet I'd say some home made fiberglass gobos, for walls, around the kit or what ever mic area, and a few pads above. That goes a long way to removing the small room' signature that would otherwise impose it's self on about anything you mic. (Think like having a 5-10 ms delay at 30% wet on everything.
Getting that 'sound' into the background opens up the ability to work up other perspectives over a clean slate.
Five times the impact. About a $100 bucks.

[Farshad]

Another +1 for AT4040. Sounds great on my nylon guitar and percussion.

[Half-cup]

Thank you everyone for your replies.

If you haven't yet I'd say some home made fiberglass gobos, for walls, around the kit or what ever mic area, and a few pads above. That goes a long way to removing the small room' signature that would otherwise impose it's self on about anything you mic. (Think like having a 5-10 ms delay at 30% wet on everything.
Getting that 'sound' into the background opens up the ability to work up other perspectives over a clean slate.

I have the walls and ceilings are covered with cardboard and old sleeping bags. It got rid of the nasty ring when I clap my hands in the room, but based on my reasearch, it's probably not doing much to mitigate the lower frequencies. I do find it damn near impossible at this point to get a clean sample or synth to sit with my recordings. Sounds like this could be a factor.


So right now I'm hearing:
1) gobos/room treatment
2) stick with the deltas and invest in preamps
3) Get a pair of AT4040s (You won't regret it! )
4) Forget about monitor upgrade until I can spend more money

No one commented on driving monitors with a stereo receiver. Maybe I should atleast buy a power amp (Alesis RA 300 -$280 for example)? Or should I hold out to afford something of better quality there too?

I did have one other idea--
What about renting gear and swapping it out along my current chain, in order to gain some perspective? So that I could hear the difference good pre's would make with my existing room & mics... the difference good mics would make with my existing room & pre's ... etc.. before plopping out the dough to actually purchase them? Perhaps that could help me make better decisions for the long run? Maybe plan a recording session around it? Do you think that would be worth it? Any advice if I go this route?

Thanks again! Your help is much appreciated!
Take care,
Half-cup

[kojak]

Here's my 2 cents:

- AKG c1000s are also an excellent workhorse, decent on damn near anything, ie. overheads/close mics for hihat or ride, acoustic guitars, neat sounding on guitar amps, even half decent for vox. if you can find them cheaper than the AT mics, go for em, although either one are a great option. on the super duper budget end of things, MXL 990s are surprisingly decent considering they're usually under a hundred bucks.

- definitely preamps are a huge way to improve your sound, and even a pair of good ones beats 8 shitty ones. that way even on drums you can have good overhead sounds even if you have to use the behr for your close mics. i think someone mentioned ART, i will second that emotion...very good prices and it sounds very good for the money. presonus makes great stuff too in the lower price ranges.


- lastly, if it fits in your budget, upgrading at least your reference amp is a good idea, if ya can't get new monitors for a while. the alesis RA-100 is relatively inexpensive, sounds way better than your stereo receiver, and should be a good match being that you have alesis monitors already.


best of luck, cheers

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by Half-cup

...I did have one other idea--
What about renting gear and swapping it out along my current chain, in order to gain some perspective? So that I could hear the difference good pre's would make with my existing room & mics... the difference good mics would make with my existing room & pre's ... etc.. before plopping out the dough to actually purchase them? Perhaps that could help me make better decisions for the long run? Maybe plan a recording session around it? Do you think that would be worth it? Any advice if I go this route?

Thanks again! Your help is much appreciated!
Take care,
Half-cup

That's a good way to get a feel for the gear before springing for it.

Wayne

[dickiefunk]

You could look at these options:-

Presonus Firepod $287.99

Blue Sky Media Desk 2.1 $499

Audio Technica 4040 $219.99
or
CAD M177 $122.39

Should be a definate upgrade in all areas and still within your budget.

[8th_note]

No one commented on driving monitors with a stereo receiver. Maybe I should atleast buy a power amp (Alesis RA 300 -$280 for example)? Or should I hold out to afford something of better quality there too?

I'm a pretty hard core audiophile. My main system runs a 300 watt Krell amp and I've got several integrated amps and receivers running in other parts of the house. Honestly, I doubt you would be able to hear the difference between an Alesis and your receiver in your current system unless you are listening at very loud volumes. The differences between amps is very subtle and even the experts can't reliably discern between them in double blind tests.

The key here is that you have limited funds. You will get by far the greatest bang for your buck with microphones or preamps. In either case you don't have to spend big bucks to get something from which you will readily hear an improvement in your recordings.

As for monitoring, you didn't mention headphones. It's not a good idea to mix on headphones but a decent pair of headphones can be used as an excellent reference tool. A pair of Audio-Technica ATHM30 phones is less than $60. One key to getting by with a modest monitoring setup is to use reference CDs as you mix. This will keep you from running too far off the rails.

[ballpein]

Originally Posted by 8th_note

For recording bass you should definitely have a Sansamp Bass Driver DI. This doesn't mean that you will always forgo recording through your cab but the Sansamp is very useful.

The sansamp can be handy for quick and dirty applications, but I personally hate this thing. I think in this situation the d-out on his GK is a better option; he's getting a really nice preamp and a really good eq section. I find the 'effected' sound on the sansamp to be way, way over-compressed (and this from someone who likes a lot of compression on bass), and there are far better bass overdrives / compressors out there (and itb). To me, using the sansamp is like pushing a "generic bass" button.