Small studio apartment acoustics

[Tibbon]

I have a very small studio apartment. I am on the ground/basement floor so at least I don't have the room vibrating under me much.

It's around 200sq ft, including the kitchen, bathroom and closet. My desk and speakers at in a non-optimal position. I have nothing on the walls that prevents reflection, nor on the ceil. There's short carpet on the floor. My desk is against the long wall about 1/3rd down the wall. There is very little I can do to reposition the desk or other furniture. Basically think of it like a dorm room (that happens to cost way too much).

It doesn't sound 'bad' but it doesn't sound good either in here. I've definitely had other rooms that worked better for my stuff, where my desk could be placed better in the room, and with bass trapping, etc... I'm only working in stereo (god knows where 4 more speakers would fit).

I know that the acoustics of your room are critical, and I'm an ASA member (so this post is rather sad).

I'm guessing that about 1/2 of the people reading the Low End area have this problem. What in the world to do with these rooms that aren't built for audio, and can't be changed. I can't float the floor, decouple the room, balance the AC, repipe the HVAC, make the walls thicker, position the desk properly, treat the walls properly, build bass traps, redo the floor covering, etc.. I don't even have the space to pull to desk 6 inches more out from the wall. I know the bass is inaccurate as hell in here, and the imaging is really poor.

So what to do? Just leave it as is, and understand that I'm in a tiny apartment and learn to deal with the room? I'm not a bad engineer, but I know that things that come out of this room will make it sound like I am.

[tomdarude]

1) do your pre-production on whatever you have there....focus on the song & arrangement.

2) get some talented musicians

3) book a nice, real studio and record & mix there!



...it´s been done that way before...and can be done exactly this way today.

whatever the ad´s tell you, Logic/Protools/Cubase etc. are NOT a STUDIO in a box!!!
they can fullfill the tasks of a mixing-console, a tape-machine, fx-boxes, even some instruments and they get better at this everytime.....

but they don´t replace a STUDIO!...so why is everybody expecting them to do so ??
that´s what I don´t get, .......rooms, acoustics, monitors, mic-collection, instruments...is what seperates the men from the boys here.

don´t believe the hype




if you do your job well, and have some crazy good songs/artist and what you come up with in your appartment sounds great. don´t listen to me
The Streets - Original Pirate Material was done and mixed on a Powerbook G4/Logic 6, went platinum, brought an underground genre to the mainstream!

a cool record can be made on a laptop only in any shitty basement !!
BUT a laptop and an appartment can´t replace a real recording studio. period.

these are 2 different things

cheers tom









and to also be a little constructive......

give this a read: Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms
have look a his site: realtraps.com
then have also a look at glenn´s: gikacoustics.com

then search gearslutz for basstraps-built/DIY threads......get at least some DIY basstraps into your corners (wall-ceiling if you got no free space) and treat you first-reflection points with some DIY-rockwool-panels

[OafyC]

If you are recording drums, get a decent electric set and use one of the good VIs. Record the guitars direct through a good DI and use a good modeling plugin. For vocals you can get one of those portable vocal booths that is just goes behind the mic and absorbs the sounds.

This will at least get you a decent sound, although its not ideal. The guitars can always be reamped quickly in a studio and the drums would actually sound pretty good. Mixing is the part where you will have the most problems.

Edit: Didn't see the last part of the above post. The realtraps.com is what I was talking about for portable vocal booths.

[Cosmic Closet]

....small it is; I thought I was on the 'intimate' side with about 500SQ....

Perhaps splitting the work between direct tracking whatever needs that at your place and doing the acoustic stuff at a friend's place could at least help alleviate the front end problems a bit.

For mixing, if you can't move anything, perhaps smaller monitors really near you could help minimize the effects of the walls and give you a fighting chance.
Blankets hung on a set of stands? Get radical. You might wind up sitting in a phone booth as it were, but it sounds like just about anything would be an improvement.

Good luck with it.

Best,

[emkay]

Originally Posted by tomdarude

1) do your pre-production on whatever you have there....focus on the song & arrangement.

2) get some talented musicians

3) book a nice, real studio and record & mix there!



...it´s been done that way before...and can be done exactly this way today.

whatever the ad´s tell you, Logic/Protools/Cubase etc. are NOT a STUDIO in a box!!!
they can fullfill the tasks of a mixing-console, a tape-machine, fx-boxes, even some instruments and they get better at this everytime.....

but they don´t replace a STUDIO!...so why is everybody expecting them to do so ??
that´s what I don´t get, .......rooms, acoustics, monitors, mic-collection, instruments...is what seperates the men from the boys here.

don´t believe the hype




if you do your job well, and have some crazy good songs/artist and what you come up with in your appartment sounds great. don´t listen to me
The Streets - Original Pirate Material was done and mixed on a Powerbook G4/Logic 6, went platinum, brought an underground genre to the mainstream!

a cool record can be made on a laptop only in any shitty basement !!
BUT a laptop and an appartment can´t replace a real recording studio. period.

these are 2 different things

cheers tom









and to also be a little constructive......

give this a read: Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms
have look a his site: realtraps.com
then have also a look at glenn´s: gikacoustics.com

then search gearslutz for basstraps-built/DIY threads......get at least some DIY basstraps into your corners (wall-ceiling if you got no free space) and treat you first-reflection points with some DIY-rockwool-panels

Not meant to be personal,,,,but,,,,,Help me here, I don't understand your points. Obviously, if you have the means, it would be preferable to have a "real" studio, or book a "real studio". But what is the difference between making a "cool record" on a laptop in a "shitty basenent" vs. a "laptop in an appartment"? What does that mean? So a "shitty" basement is OK, but an appartment isn't and you better get yourself into a studio? If that's what you mean--that's ridiculous, and besides there's way too many stories to relate about great records being done on all kinds of gear in all kinds of environments under all kinds of conditions, not to mention the stories of artists trying to better a demo done at home by taking it into the studio and never getting it right!! I personally, as a session player, have experienced this at both ends, playing on the demo and/or playing on the record...I think your "hard and fast" rule concerning "real studios" is just a tad "black or white" without taking into account the circumstances. Atleast thank you for giving the option not to "listen to you".................peace?

[tINY]

Headhphones are your friend - and get a headphone amp with some kind of cross-feed.

A 200 sq foot one-room apartment isn't gonna be anywhere you can mix, though you might get some good tracking done there if you play with position.




-tINY

[moon_unit]

Anything you record in your apartment is likely to sound like crap.

So my adive would be not to record anything "important" there.

Seriously.

[TeReKeTe]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

So what to do? Just leave it as is, and understand that I'm in a tiny apartment and learn to deal with the room?

In a word? yes. do exactly that.

you need to specify what it is that you'll be tracking, what style of music, what (and to what extent you'll be mixing), etc, etc.

yes tons and tons of people do plenty of good work in less than idea conditions. the best thing you can do has been stated above: do the preproduction at your place and then go to a better setting for the rest of your work.

mix-wise... do your best to get the soul out of your mix there. square away the arrangment, try to get an idea of where the instruments fit in the frequency spectrum, etc. Don't worry too much about controlling dynamics beyond getting the sound. if you're stacking compression plugs ontop of eq plugs and then adding another compressor just to make something sound "right"-- then you've probably reached the point where you've exhausted what you can do w/ the room. switch up venues, spend a few hours at the new spot, and you should be good to go.

really, don't let the equipment/setting/etc. stuff stop you from making music. I just finished 2 mixes that started in the box, in logic, through etymotic er-6 earbuds. nice, but certainly not an idea mixing enviroment. after hours and hours of wrestling with the mix-- i took it to a friend's studio, undid 1/2 of the audio trickery i'd done (mainly too much compression), cleaned up some eqs, and it sounded great.

work with what you've got, shine the product up when you can. but above all, don't feel paralyzed because of your room!!!!!!!!!!

[Doktorfuture]

My solution is to just pile huge amounts of gear in the room (diffusion and natural bass trapping) and get plenty drunk.

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I have a very small studio apartment. I am on the ground/basement floor so at least I don't have the room vibrating under me much.

[tomdarude]

Originally Posted by emkay

Not meant to be personal,,,,but,,,,,Help me here, I don't understand your points. Obviously, if you have the means, it would be preferable to have a "real" studio, or book a "real studio". But what is the difference between making a "cool record" on a laptop in a "shitty basenent" vs. a "laptop in an appartment"? What does that mean? So a "shitty" basement is OK, but an appartment isn't and you better get yourself into a studio? If that's what you mean--that's ridiculous, and besides there's way too many stories to relate about great records being done on all kinds of gear in all kinds of environments under all kinds of conditions, not to mention the stories of artists trying to better a demo done at home by taking it into the studio and never getting it right!! I personally, as a session player, have experienced this at both ends, playing on the demo and/or playing on the record...I think your "hard and fast" rule concerning "real studios" is just a tad "black or white" without taking into account the circumstances. Atleast thank you for giving the option not to "listen to you".................peace?

ooops.....guess you didn´t get, what i meant...but sorry engl. is not my first language....

my point was exactly that there are NO "hard & fast"-rules !!
I actually offered 2 points of view in from 1 person (I know that´s rare )

on the one side I completely agree with you: basement,appartment, laptop...been there.
I´ve done tracks & even some songs on a powerbook with logic/reaktor and a pair of genelec 1029´s and a sm58 (mike skinner did a far better job with that, though...)

but on the other hand I often struggled a lot in these type of situations, when I wanted to record and MIX something with more acoustic content (guitars,amps,percussion, drums in a living room, you name it...)
THAT`S just soooo much easier in a nice treated room, with +/- 6-10dB in acoustics, good 3-way speakers, a nice wooden tracking room etc. that´s where this stuff naturally comes together, you get your sounds, place your mics and when you listen back it´s "90% there" (well in my case it´s often rather 70% )


and round here I constantly see people struggle with these kind of situations, some ask for help and they nowadays actually DO believe that Logic/Cubase is all you need, cause it has all the functions of a "real studio".....that´s just plain wrong! tutt

all I wanna say is: don´t get fooled into daw-marketing BS, realworld-experience is key

BUT again....never let any circumstances keep you from doing your work.....music is art! don´t let anything hold you back!



now how´s that for yin-yang

[joh]

I record in my appartement as well, and it has advantages and disadvantages. what I knew from studiowork, it always depends on what you (want to) do. for rock´n roll i always prefer going to studios and nail it live to tape in a few days. I think this is the way it has to be done...
but when it comes to electronic stuff, where roomacoustics are not involved to much, and when it comes to scratching your ideas to logic, i´m more than happy with my toys at home without thinking about paying for expensive studiotime. If you´re a tinkerer, homerecording is cooler.

Tom, you´re right, the streets would be not half enjoying without that dirt and lofi vibe. still one of my all time favourite albums.

i forgot: a friend of mine has a livingroom in his house, that sounds really great, they made some jazzalbums there, and they sound way better that lot of sterile studiocrap!!! Ok, they mixed it in a studio