Liquid Liquid Liquid Channels and such

[drycounty]

Just thought I'd throw a question out to everyone --

Focusrite came out with their Liquid Channel well over a year ago. This particular piece claims to bring the sound of particular preamps to anyone with $1700 to spend and also claims some damn fine praise from many folks in the "recording scene" here, to which I'd actually think, hey, you know -- indeed I can't find that ultra rare Telefunken pre, maybe this will do enough?

Well, since it's been a year, I just though I'd ask -- when will we see a drop in the price, or, better yet, a dual-channel version of the same? At worst, my question might lead toward the ultimate bottom of the barrel answer in that "oh, Behringer is about to unleash it's "LIQUIDATE 9000" preamp (which I'd hate).

Why haven't we seen more from this technology? Is it still so proprietary? We all can get by by paying less for amazing eqs and compressors, but at the prime input stage, no one has yet been able to adequately reproduce the sound of amazing pres except focusrite? Why is that?

[rowdy322]

Hopefully we will not see any more versions. The concensus on this board that this piece is a total piece of crap. I have seen a lot more haters concerning this.

[drycounty]

I've read some great reviews, that's funny. One of them was from a guy on another board whom I respect and who is an analog junky and owns many of the pres the thing was modeled from.

He said "This is a frightening, exciting, easy, scary,angering, embarrasing, great piece of gear."

MANY more quotes make me think that Focusrite is/was onto something via this link (including a GS quote):

Focusrite: Product Overview

I really just want moore's effect to take over here.

[aussie_techie]

if you have the kind of cash to spend why not buy 2channels of a modern produced all analogue pre and stop worrying about needing vintage pres and different pres for every track

[DrDeltaM]

I agree you're better of with a pair of great allround mic preamps then with some emulation box.

[8th_note]

I think a couple of responses to this thread help explain why this thing has not caught on. Like you, drycounty, I've also read several favorable reviews by people who's opinions I trust but I cannot remember a review exclaiming that it's a "piece of crap" from someone who actually brought one to their studio and truly put it through its paces. I'm sure there's some credible scorching reviews out there but what surprised me is that several well respected engineers said that this thing actually did pretty much what Focusrite said it would do.

The computer modeling for something like this is quite involved and I doubt that a company like Behringer would invest the money to engineer the product. It's harder to copy a preamp or compressor than it is to copy a guitar pedal. Attempting to duplicate the frequency response, slew rate, harmonic distortion, and other sonic factors of a preamp is a difficult job. Not only do you have to emulate the sound at a static volume setting, you also have to emulate the change in distortion level and harmonics as the preamp is pushed to higher volumes. Not an easy task.

I doubt that Focusrite will drop the price and I have no idea about a two channel version. I think that the price they are charging is pretty reasonable considering what it does.

If I had some money to burn I would consider buying one because it would be a way to experiment with reasonable facsimilies of several different high end pres and compressors. I can personally accept that the emulation will not be 100% accurate as long as it is in the ballpark. It would sure make sense to get familiar with the major characteristics of several of the top-end pres and compressors before investing megabucks into the actual gear. As it is, I plan to do what aussie and Drdelta suggest and get a few channels of solid, all-around pre such as API or Pacifica to compliment my mid-level pres. The Liquid Channel would be a fun toy, however.

[rowdy322]

Originally Posted by 8th_note

I think a couple of responses to this thread help explain why this thing has not caught on. Like you, drycounty, I've also read several favorable reviews by people who's opinions I trust but I cannot remember a review exclaiming that it's a "piece of crap" from someone who actually brought one to their studio and truly put it through its paces. I'm sure there's some credible scorching reviews out there but what surprised me is that several well respected engineers said that this thing actually did pretty much what Focusrite said it would do.

The computer modeling for something like this is quite involved and I doubt that a company like Behringer would invest the money to engineer the product. It's harder to copy a preamp or compressor than it is to copy a guitar pedal. Attempting to duplicate the frequency response, slew rate, harmonic distortion, and other sonic factors of a preamp is a difficult job. Not only do you have to emulate the sound at a static volume setting, you also have to emulate the change in distortion level and harmonics as the preamp is pushed to higher volumes. Not an easy task.

I doubt that Focusrite will drop the price and I have no idea about a two channel version. I think that the price they are charging is pretty reasonable considering what it does.

If I had some money to burn I would consider buying one because it would be a way to experiment with reasonable facsimilies of several different high end pres and compressors. I can personally accept that the emulation will not be 100% accurate as long as it is in the ballpark. It would sure make sense to get familiar with the major characteristics of several of the top-end pres and compressors before investing megabucks into the actual gear. As it is, I plan to do what aussie and Drdelta suggest and get a few channels of solid, all-around pre such as API or Pacifica to compliment my mid-level pres. The Liquid Channel would be a fun toy, however.

I had one at my studio and yes I still stand by the fact that it is a better door stop. If you have money to blow, go ahead and fire away. Then if you have good ears, we will see it back for sale here shortly.

[Doktorfuture]

I do a lot of work with synthetic drums and synths and find the Liquid Mix (not the Liquid Channel you're talking about) to be a useful DSP box. Sounds good to my ears (which aren't shit, no matter what you think . I also have piles of good outboard (i.e. not low end). I picked up an open-box Liquid Mix at a guitar center just to see what it would be like. I think it's quite fun and useful and good value for money for what it does.

Originally Posted by rowdy322

I had one at my studio and yes I still stand by the fact that it is a better door stop. If you have money to blow, go ahead and fire away. Then if you have good ears, we will see it back for sale here shortly.

[Jay Lee]

I've never seen it anywhere at 1700 $... it's 2500 $... isn't it?

[rowdy322]

Originally Posted by Doktorfuture

I do a lot of work with synthetic drums and synths and find the Liquid Mix to be a useful DSP box. Sounds good to my ears (which aren't shit, no matter what you think . I also have piles of good outboard (i.e. not low end). I picked up an open-box Liquid Mix at a guitar center just to see what it would be like. I think it's quite fun and useful and good value for money for what it does.

I don't know about your ears, but your vision is definitely screwed up. I don't see anywhere that the Liquid Mix was mentioned. To my knowledge, the Liquid Channel was mentioned, a completely different animal.

[Doktorfuture]

Ya, i caught that later. anyway, have you heard the Liquid Mix? Do you also hate it?

Originally Posted by rowdy322

I don't know about your ears, but your vision is definitely screwed up. I don't see anywhere that the Liquid Mix was mentioned. To my knowledge, the Liquid Channel was mentioned, a completely different animal.

[rowdy322]

I have not heard that piece yet personally, but in contrast, I have heard very positive things about it.

[matt82aust]

I think its a case of try before you buy. I havent tried the liquid channel, but if it is even close to doing what they market it as doing, it would be a very impressive box. i had a loaner Liquid Mix for a while and loved it.

honestly, especially for products like the liquid channel, there will always be a bunch of flamers on it, and they may be correct, but its still worth trying for yourself and seeing what your own opinion on these boxes are. In my opinion, the idea of sampling compressors and EQ's through convolution seems to work very well with the liquid mix, so i don't see why it wouldnt for Mic Pre sampling with the Liquid Channel?

To each his own

[drycounty]

Convolution is a means of sampling an EQ and comp ... but how does this technology work for pres? I just don't understand how on earth one would be able to 'model' the sound of a preamp as it's so crucial to the early part of the signal chain?

I remember a rather hysterical 'mic modeler' plugin for Cubase back in the day. I couldn't believe what they thought they were doing and of course it was a horrible 'effect' on anything but did give me a chuckle. I'd like to think that modeling tech has moved far past this, but am not sure.

Being an analog or digital purist aside (please, just for a second) I can't help but think that eventually 'they' are going to nail it. It's getting harder and harder to fool people, after all.

[matt82aust]

Originally Posted by drycounty

Convolution is a means of sampling an EQ and comp ... but how does this technology work for pres? I just don't understand how on earth one would be able to 'model' the sound of a preamp as it's so crucial to the early part of the signal chain?
.

I guess the easiest way would be to compare it more to convolution reverb. how that "models" the sound of a room. i get more confused when they start dealing with the variables of tubes and harmonic distortion etc etc!