challenge: best drum mic setup using these...

[nofi]

OK. here's an interesting challenge for someone, maybe...

This weekend, me and my music partner are catching up with a new drummer friend (who is really good, and plays in a few different bands already, but happens to like the electronic stuff we do and wants to collaborate) in a basic rehearsal room for 4 hours, and are going to be mucking about with recording drums.

I'm thinking the drums will be disco-ish stuff. kit will be standard kick, snare, a few toms, hh, cymbals.

I'm not caring about making a release quality multi-platinum rock standard recording, but would like to make as good a quality recording as we can with what we've got. ie, It's more about having a go, demoing some ideas, and seeing what happens... but it'd be nice if we had some starting point to begin with so we don't spend the 4 hours scratching our heads wondering where to start.

I have a few ideas based on what I read already (and have read a lot in the last few months!) but any tips, in terms of the specific mics to use on what drums or areas of the kit would be appreciated....

Mics are:
1 x AKG C414 B XLS
1 x AKG D770
1 x Shure beta58
4 x Shure SM57
1 x Oktava MK-319
1 x Oktava MK-012 (only if it shows up this week! :-)
2 x Rode NT-1

Mic Preamps are:
Rane DMS22
Shure M67 4:1 mixer
mackie 1402 mixer
Jomeek VC6q channel strip
focusrite something-or-other channel strip (1u silver thing)
behringer something-or-other channel strip

recording:
edirol FA-101 (8 analogue ins - has 2 mic pres too)

misc:
we own 6 boom mic stands.... But the rehearsal space might have more.

that's about it.
and no, I can't afford any more gear this week... (unless someone has a minimoog for sale for $100, in which case I'll just not eat for the week)

thanks!

[tINY]

Those rodes are a bit on the bright side, but they are the only pair you have.

Set them up as overheads the same distance from the center of the snare drum.

You don't really have a Kick mic, but the 414 should work.

That's it - 3 channels and go....




-tINY

[hle144]

Record with those mics? With a new musician? With those pres? Maybe a few liters of good alcohol, carton of smokes, some of those left handed cigarettes and a room mic.

[nofi]

Originally Posted by tINY

Those rodes are a bit on the bright side, but they are the only pair you have.

Set them up as overheads the same distance from the center of the snare drum.

You don't really have a Kick mic, but the 414 should work.

That's it - 3 channels and go....

cool! - Though do you think there's any point using a different (ie less bright) mic overhead and just living with the fact that it's not stereo? The issue is, it's just a rehearsal room, not a proper studio drum room, so I'm worried the room might already be a bit, err, bright...

[nofi]

Originally Posted by hle144

Record with those mics? With a new musician? With those pres? Maybe a few liters of good alcohol, carton of smokes, some of those left handed cigarettes and a room mic.

If you think that's funny, you should see the crap we did our first album with... My main soundcard for that was an M-audio audiophile 2496. My partner's mixer that everything he tracked went through was a behringer. We used a quadraverb for some of the reverb duties. We still got people who liked our CD. We even got national airplay over here for a bit.

Yeah, he's a new musician for us, (though we jammed together at a gig, where we met... we liked what he did, he liked what we did - new friends) he's actually a very good drummer. Plays drums in a couple of bands, and likes electronic music. And like I said, we're just playing around, trying out some ideas, and seeing if we can get some kind of recording of it.


I'll take your reply as a recommendation to just use a single room mic. I'm happy enough to try this. - doesn't sound like too much effort at least. So, would you want to go out on a limb and pick one mic from my list and one pre from my list as your professional recommendation as the best thing we can do with what we have? And any idea on where I might want to try the placement of this single room mic?

[bmsander]

OR -

you can try the MC012 as a mono overhead (over the snare about 2 stick lengths from the snare, give or take)

and use the Rode pair as a stereo room set in XY. Placement is definitely crucial here. Make sure you're getting a good balance for what you need. For disco type electronic, maybe you'll want to get closer to the kit for less room . . . ?

414 on the kick - maybe on the hypercardiod pattern if available . . . ?

57 on snare.

MK-319 for a mono far room mic to be used as an effect or subtle blend.

have fun!

[nofi]

Originally Posted by bmsander

have fun!

cool! yeah, fun is a big part of it (I'm no pro recording studio engineer here)

now I've got 3 methods to try...
I really hope the MK-012 gets here on time.
:-)

thanks for taking the time to make a few suggestions. I know my mike collection is a little weird right now - thats why I posted this marked as "challenge"

My mic kit is more picked for recording smaller things than drumkits, but with this specific drummer in mind, it's growing as fast as I can grow it! if the drum experiment works out, next up will probably be an 421 or two, then 4 decent preamps - probably going with a batch of JLM baby animal kits - and then probably another MK-012 - and I think I'll make up a kick mic based on a bongo shell and a 6" speaker, kinda like a DIY yamaha subkick that I saw on someone's website the other day...

[shreddoggie]

no tape no pillows no wadded up carpet.
all drums have bottom heads.
find someone who REALLY knows how to tune them...(easier said than done)


...and then these stereo room mic setups will sound GREAT.

- the extra mics can function more like eq to bring out the bottom of the kick or the transient in the snare or the stick on the hit-hat

[Diskordia]

he does have 4 57s and it's electronic music. I'd make use of em on the snare, toms, and maybe even the kick. might be good to have if you want to use sound replacer or somethin to make the drums fit with all those digital sounds. roominess might not be the best best..especially a crappy sounding rehearsal space with other music bleeding throught the walls

[Diskordia]

oh yeah, and make him play to a click so you can build your loop library

[DontLetMeDrown]

Try the 57 on kick-- you might be surprised. Also try the 57 and beta58 on snare and see which sounds best.thumbsup

[Lee Knight]

Omni Room mic for later squashing into Chemical Bros. mayhem. Place to get a nice balanced mono kit. You might be able to use only this for sections of your tune.
1 x AKG C414 B XLS

OH's
2 x Rode NT-1 in a Glyn John's triangle

Snare, toms and close kick
4 x Shure SM57

Outside Kick. Try placing this as far away as the inside mic is fron the beater head. So if the 57 is 8" from the beater, try putting the 319 8" from the outside head. For starters a least.
1 x Oktava MK-319

Under snare
1 x Oktava MK-012

[bachconnelly]

Ok.. lets try this one.. just for fun

Røde NT-1's - OH's, search the forums for the "recorderman setup" With limited mics, I find this one will keep your kick and snare happy.

The Kick drum - 414 in figure 8 inside the kick aimed at the SIDES of the kick, then one of your 57's on the beater side to get some definition. Its a cool sound if you've never tried it..

57 on snare top and bottom

MK-012 on HH... (maybe not necessasry)

Then use your remaining 57/58's on the toms..

Post a soundbite or two when you're done! I'm curious to hear it!

[nofi]

Originally Posted by Diskordia

might be good to have if you want to use sound replacer or somethin to make the drums fit with all those digital sounds.

....digital sounds?

We use old analogue stuff., thanks very much....
:-)

also it's a one room (private) rehearsal space, so don't have to worry about accidentally recording a grindcore band in the room mic.

[russelldl]

I'm not a recording expert by any stretch but I am a drummer so I thought I would offer my perspective on things.

First, tuning is very important (as mentioned). But there isn't much you can do about it. It would be poor form to ask this guy to let someone else tune his kit for him and if he can do it correctly, he probably will.

Second, overheads are a great start. I would say don't just put them up above the snare. In fact, you're going to get a TON of snare in them no matter where you put them. Its actually true of most of your mikes. Snare drums are loud and they bleed into everything. So try to ever so slightly angle your overheads away from the snare and toward a source you want more of (probably ride and highhat). Also pan each overhead to one side to give you that classic drumset mix. Consider setting the overheads in a fashion that cuts the set in half, equal distant from the snare and bass drum (which you probably want panned up the middle) but with high hat and higher toms mostly in the left overhead and ride and lower toms in the right overhead. (if that sounds confusing, stand up on a chair and look down at the set, imagine a line going through the middle of the bass drum and snare, place each mic so that its equal distant from the line but well placed to pick up everything else on its side of the line).

Third, I would find a way to mike the bass drum. I'm not a recording expert so I can't give you a good suggestion on which mike to use. I would say see if you can find someone who has a good bass drum mike you can borrow, do that. I would spend a little bit of time with headphones on, having the drummer play the bass drum and move the mike around to find a sound you want. Very slight changes in location and angle have major effects. Also, once you find your spot, don't let anyone bump the mike and dont let him move the bass drum.

Finally, I would suggest close miking the following things as best you can given what you have:

snare- top and bottom, if you can only do one, consider going bottom. You are going to get the snap in the overheads no matter what, you want to be able to get the snare buzz added in so it doesnt sound like a timbale. With all due respect to the earlier suggestion, don't put a mic 2 feet above the snare. Its in the way of the drummer and its going to give you mostly that timbale sound with plenty of bleed from everything else, especially the batter head of the bass drum.

hi-hat- you said disco and electronic so I'm thinking you want some good hi hat work. Close mike it if you can or at the very least aim an overhead near it.

toms- again consider tops and bottoms (but that's way more mics and inputs then we're talking). basically the overheads will handle it but if there's some aspect of them you want to reinforce (ie attack, resonance, etc) then try miking the toms.

Overall, my suggestion is asking the guy to scale down to as small a setup as he's comfortable with. Then miking as much as you can. You can always take mics out of the mix but you can't add ones you didnt use. And go with a room mic as well, it may not be the sound you want but its the one that always sounds great to us drummers. Be respectful, don't do the whole tape and muffling thing. And be most concerned with mic placement. The location of the mic is usually more important than what mic you use.

Hope that helps some,
russelldl

[nofi]

wow - two deleted replies in the thread now!
secrets, secrets...
I want to know what they said!
:-)


In other late-breaking news, my laptop has decided to completely crap out for audio with my audio interface (I really do hate computers - so glad I don't use one for everything. I'd be insane by now!!) and a day of stuffing about with settings has provided no fix, so I'm in the middle of a backup/reinstall dance right now... hopefully there'll actually BE a recording after all this...

If worst comes to worst, we'll just bring some synths and setup and have a jam... if by some fluke of luck I actually have the laptop up and working again soon, I'll start some basic tracks setup, and we'll record.... though all this stuffing about with amazing PC technology has taken some really valuable prep time away. we might just HAVE to jam, and worry about recording things properly another time....



I'm loving all these cool suggestions for micing things up - yes high hats are important - so finding a way to have them nice and crisp and present in the mix would be great. that would be my priority after getting good kick boom and good snare snap+kssssh.

And I'm really not adverse to a little room sound on everything, either. I mean - it's a real drum kit played in a real room by a real person after all. I feel that having the room sound (if it's not too horrible!) should be a part of what we're trying to do.

[bluestarbass]

wait im a bit confused. You said your recording medium was on a computer but that you only use analog?>>?

[nofi]

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

wait im a bit confused. You said your recording medium was on a computer but that you only use analog?>>?

often, it helps to examine the context of a statement before asking a question about it.

[nofi]

Anyway - so, update - I got my ******** laptop reformatted and working again by this morning, but by the time it was running and cubase & ableton were reinstalled & updated to latest versions, I really couldn't be bothered dealing with a computer any more today... so I left it at home, packed up some synths, the MPC, some FX, and went off to jam. And we had a bunch of fun just playing things and mucking about.

We're going to have a go at recording something in a fortnight when we catch up again. I got a bunch of time before then to prep some ideas, and I'm even more looking forward to recording the drums now I've been playing along with them.