Low end recording rates?

[project 114]

So I've just finished recording my 3rd band. All of which I've done for free so far. At this point I feel I'm ready to start charging for recordings, the quality's good and I've got another studio to send out stereo mixes for mastering. I'm not interested in doing full length recordings. Just demo's and ep's, I don't feel I could put in the time to do a full length, with having a full time job and a second job running sound/djing.
My current equipment list is:
Presonus firepod
cubase le (soon to be cubase studio 4)
Drummagog
teseract rogue monitors
krk sp 5's
mackie vlz 3 1642
behringer composer
Behringer dual 31 band eq
Audix 3) f10 1)f12 1)d6
3)sm 57
1)akg perception 100
stereo behringer c2 matched pair
Samson 4 channel head phone amp
various sets of cheap head phone's

My question is how much do you think I should charge based on experience (very little) and equipment. If you don't think I'm ready what should I get (experience or equipment) make me ready? I was thinking about charging a flat rate per song incase I run into hangs while recording that are all my fault, I don't want to charge clients for this time.

[theblue1]

Well, keep in mind that really experienced guys with boatloads of expensive gear costing perhaps hundreds of times what your rig cost have to charge well under what they think they're worth -- and often not even enough to keep up payments on their gear/lease/etc (hence the waves of studio closings).

BUT... that said... rates can vary pretty drastically around the country depending on what's available, how much demand there is, all those market-driven goodies...

You might be able to charge $20 or even $25 an hour (good luck on that) -- or you might be lucky to get McDonald's wages.


Honestly, besides your gear, a LOT will depend on your skill behind the board and with people.

Back in my punk rock/salad days I worked in a lot of low end studios as both an engineer and a producer and not only was there a huge range in gear available in different places, where the studio supplied an engineer, there was an enormous range. Sometimes I just kicked back and did the producer thing and sometimes I sent the studio guy out to play video games once he'd shown me around the studio... and the amount those studios could charge was really dependent on all those factors.

[Herman Munster]

I'm in the same boat. I'm in the middle of my 2nd and 3rd project and I'm charging about $30 an hour. I give people the option of doing it by the song, but I charge $75 a song and if they come in and are ready, they can do a demo with guitar and vocals with a good 5 songs in a couple of hours (much cheaper). what is driving me crazy is the kids who come in and take an hour to get down one guitar track. But then again, it's their money, not mine.....

[8th_note]

I charge by the song, currently $65/song. I do this because I want control over how much time I spend on a project. If I'm recording a really good band who has their act together I'll put more time into the process.

When I was at your stage I started out charging $25/song and I gradually upped my rates.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by 8th_note

When I was at your stage I started out charging $25/song and I gradually upped my rates.

What kind of gear are you guys using and how did you afford it??? If I was charging $25 per song, I'd have to record 8000-10000 songs just for the gear I've bought over the years - not to mention that I like to eat and have a family.

I understand doing it for cheap when youre starting out, but that is insanity. You'll never rise above it. People will not take you seriously and eventually you'll burn out.

[somedude74]

Originally Posted by Herman Munster

I'm in the same boat. I'm in the middle of my 2nd and 3rd project and I'm charging about $30 an hour. I give people the option of doing it by the song, but I charge $75 a song and if they come in and are ready, they can do a demo with guitar and vocals with a good 5 songs in a couple of hours (much cheaper). what is driving me crazy is the kids who come in and take an hour to get down one guitar track. But then again, it's their money, not mine.....

Funny, one hour for a guitar track actually seems pretty good to me.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by GTR

Funny, one hour for a guitar track actually seems pretty good to me.

Right... back in the day (in other people's studios) I used to figure one hour for every minute of finished product -- for a straightahead, no foolin' around demo project.

Could I set up and record fast? Yes. (After a punk compilation or two with waiting room fights breaking out between the gutter punks and the jailhouse punks, I got even quicker. ) Could the bands get THEIR jobs done in the time allotted? Sometimes...



I think the idea of charging by the song is interesting (I have done it with friends on a kind of pro bono basis in my 16 track [sounds so quaint] project studio)-- and I can sympathize with one of the reasons given: so the studio owner/engineer can control the duration of the project. Certainly, I've seen owner/engineers take pity on fledgling bands and producers by forcing the clock issue with them... ("If you don't wrap up these overdubs in the next two hours, you'll have to rush your mixdowns or go overbudget.") And that can be a real kindness.

But as someone who stopped working on other folk's music because, ultimately, it drove me nuts with boredom (I feel the same way about my own from time to time but at least then I can do something about it) I can really sympathize... Now, for me, my money comes from the day job -- and I haven't regretted it since. Now, I enjoy recording again.


It takes a special kind of person to grind away on other people's music day in and day out and give it their professional best, handling technical as well as human crises in the studio, giving their best work even when the music and/or musicians leave much to be desired.

My hat is off to those folks because they are true professionals.

[Herman Munster]

Originally Posted by theblue1

It takes a special kind of person to grind away on other people's music day in and day out and give it their professional best, handling technical as well as human crises in the studio, giving their best work even when the music and/or musicians leave much to be desired.

My hat is off to those folks because they are true professionals.

So true.

[FossilTooth]

Depends a lot on the market. In my area, that's crappy gear, and wouldn't get you very far. In your area, maybe it's just what the doctor ordered.

Let me explain:

I'm part owner of a Project studio in Brooklyn that I use mostly to mix, as I usually track at slightly fancier places. Fortunately the room is great for recording full bands on a budget, so it gets rented out for that purpose.

Control room, two live rooms, iso booth. Pair of Akg 414s , pair of royer 121's, pair of Mojave MA-100's, Mojave Ma-200, RE-20's, i5's, m201's, d112's, 57's, MD421's, Focusrite ISA 428's, UA 610's, Syteks, Apogee converters, Pro Tools, and more.

Our rates? $25/hr for the room without an engineer. I think that's crazy cheap, yet still, it's not booked everyday. (Whic is good for me; I'd hate to have trouble getting into my own studio!) Could you ask for $25/hr down the street from me with your behringer gear? Probably not.

Could you get that much if you're the only studio for miles and miles around? Maybe close to it! (with your time included.) $15 or $20/hr would be a good place to start.

But, if you're in NYC, good luck trying to get $5/hr with that system. You'd be a dime a dozen around here! You can throw a rock in my neighborhood and hot a really decent recording studio for under $600 a day. I'm talking Neve consoles, Tridents, TDM vintage mics, the whole 9. On top of that, almost every band has a producer and a loft space around here (Williamsburg/Bushwick) so we have to be so cheap if we want to book the room. Around here, you wouldn't be recording anything, unless it was your own band!

[DontLetMeDrown]

Charge as much as you can get away with. The band will give you signs if you overshoot their budget. They'll say things like, "Maybe we can record less songs?" Then there are bands who will always just want the dirt cheapest price no matter what. These are the guys you want to avoid. Let the "free" recording guys deal with them. Most decent musicians understand that recording costs money.

Another good way to go is to ask the band, "What kind of budget are we working with?" This way if they give you some super-low ridiculous price, you can let them know that things will be "quick and dirty" unless they can scrounge together more money.

BTW, I don't care about the big studio around the corner that has neves and whatever because a lot of noob musicians are intimidated by those guys anyway. They know they can come over to my place and not worry about me getting pissed off because they need 20 passes before they get the take that's "the one". Don't settle for less-- the band will respect you more and you will be able to buy MORE GEAR!

[slaveern]

I think it's ok to start with a per song charge, but I'll recommend to put 'limits' to them and tell the bands up front. Say X number of hours of tracking, Y number of mix revisions... No matter how big X or Y are - so that you're not committed to something unlimited.

For pricing, it really depends on your local demand and competitions. Say if a pro place makes a great sound for $35/hr, then you've gotta think hard whether to charge $25/hr. I started with (Canada) $80/song and gradually go upwards as I upgrade my equipment and sound treatment and skills.

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by DontLetMeDrown

BTW, I don't care about the big studio around the corner that has neves and whatever because a lot of noob musician's are intimidated by those guys anyway.

Good point. A lot of new musicians will try to save $20/hr by avoiding "intimidating" higher end studios and their employees, at least for their first record or two...

Sometimes they just don't realize that the higher-end places are actually affordable and will save them tons of time though. And sometimes, thatt extra $20 is a waste. Great records have come out of my room... and even cheaper rooms.

A friend of mine has a room in Queens where Sufjan Stevens did most of his recording. The room is $175/day. Guess what? It's a great room with some great gear, and a lot of great music has been made there.

There's always room for the little guy. I might have a few decent peices, and a couple OK credits, but hell, I'm cery much the "little guy". Nothing but props here. Best of luck!

[8th_note]

What kind of gear are you guys using and how did you afford it??? If I was charging $25 per song, I'd have to record 8000-10000 songs just for the gear I've bought over the years - not to mention that I like to eat and have a family.

Project 114 has 2 other jobs. He is doing this as a side project/hobby and so is not trying to feed his family from this endeavor, at least not yet. I'm in the same boat. I have a full time job and I record local unsigned bands because I enjoy doing it. Maybe Project has aspirations of doing this as a full time profession but he's got a long row to hoe. He's only on his fourth project.

I'm definitely using budget gear and I have no delusions that I'm ever going to compete with big budget studios. I've got under $10k invested in my entire setup which is a fraction of what I've invested in my stereo system, for example.

Three of the bands I've recorded have gone on to get signed and recorded a subsequent CD in a full-time professional studio with a much larger budget. I look at this phenomenon as fulfilling my niche perfectly. I'm happy that I could help a young band get a good sounding CD recorded at a price they can afford and maybe I even helped them progress to the next rung in the ladder. I use budget gear with absolutely no apologies.

[project 114]

Originally Posted by 8th_note

Project 114 has 2 other jobs. He is doing this as a side project/hobby and so is not trying to feed his family from this endeavor, at least not yet. I'm in the same boat. I have a full time job and I record local unsigned bands because I enjoy doing it. Maybe Project has aspirations of doing this as a full time profession but he's got a long row to hoe. He's only on his fourth project.

That's exactly it I just want to know what's reasonable so that I can buy more gear. Possibly pay rent for the space I have. Although I am still wondering what I should get to make it a little more professional. I want to get cubase 4, but I was also thinking of getting the tascam dm3200 which may or may not cross over into the high end (compared to what I have now) I need more mics and rack gear as well, any suggestions?

[David@MVS]

Originally Posted by project 114

That's exactly it I just want to know what's reasonable so that I can buy more gear. Possibly pay rent for the space I have. Although I am still wondering what I should get to make it a little more professional. I want to get cubase 4, but I was also thinking of getting the tascam dm3200 which may or may not cross over into the high end (compared to what I have now) I need more mics and rack gear as well, any suggestions?

What a coincidence, this was just on Steve Albini's forum:
Electrical Audio :: View topic - I need hourly rate suggestions for my recording studio

So, if you compare situations (without adjusting for local market conditions) about $15/hour.


Funny thing is, I agree with the price, but it totally puts into perspective the amount of money that can be made on this stuff....not alot at this level.

Good luck,
David

[Janesaid2me]

This is such a hard questions but im sort of just past the stage you've mentioned...i start out doing free demos plus doing my own bands recording for about a year in sonar...once i was totally comfortable with the system and all of my equipment I started charging 20/hr...give or take...im flexible depending on the size of the project etc...(if i feel i cause a hangup then i deduct some time) I try to work with peoples budgets and get the best possible sound for their money.
But there are alot of factors...what do other studios near you charge, what kind of gear do they use, how much experience do they have, how much better is their result. Thats what helped me decide...a studio close by charges 40 and hr...they have some pretty heavy hitting gear...my goal was to charge a price that would cause bands to hear my quality and determine paying 20/hr was a better idea then paying 40 at the closest competing studio. So far its worked and its become a profitable and enjoyable side business...
Ive been recording for 8 years now and know my stuff pretty well although probably not as well as someone who does it for a living. I have nice equipment but not the best. For more info on my equipment etc check my myspace www.myspace.com/meteorstudios
Hope that helped....ohhh id say charge 10 and hr for now and see how that goes.

[6dyslexicelephnt]

Hey I have a modest set up and I'm recording bands. My advice to you... do not record any more bands for free. You need the money for gear and you need the experience of someone providing a service and a client paying for it. It's a different dynamic. More pressure

I have done three albums and they all turned out well. I recorded the first band for free so I would have samples for the website (myspace). The next two albums I did for $10/hr. After I'm done mixing this album I'm working on, I'm going to start charging $12. I've been reinvesting in equipment. Right now I want experience so I'm cheap and I can get it. I'm going to slowly ramp up my prices over time while always getting a lot of experience and producing a lot of good work. After a few more projects, I'll be up there in terms of being a "producer/engineer" that people want to work with in my local area. 5 great sounding albums will get you somewhere in most places as far as having bands seek you out.

Always produce great work. Constantly hone your craft. Have the balls to tell bands to do it again or that you screwed up something. Your work will turn out better in the end.

This is enough info to get you into your local music scene as a serious engineer. I would also improve your set up before charging people.

Tomorrow I'm going to meet with an engineer in a big city about 20 minutes away and I'm going to start interning at his studio. I'm really optimistic right now and I feel like nothing can stop me. Good luck

[zemlin]

First off, this ain't my day job. Earning a profit is optional, it just has to be worth my time. After doing enough free work to learn the ropes and have some demo material I could be proud of, I started charging $25/hr. I can't see charging by the song - time spent on material is to totally dependent on so many variables.

I raise my rates when I get more work that I have time to do. Having a day job, a family, an old car to keep running, grass to cut, home remodeling projects, etc ... there are limits. I'm charging $40/hour now and the way things are going I'll be raising them again in the not to distant future.

supply and demand determine the price. econ 101.