Getting over the fear of recording. (self engineered singer/songwriter content)

[Guitarzan]

Am I the only person that is afraid of recording themselves? I have decent equipment, and decent songs. I can sing and play pretty well also, but for some reason I don't take the time to record. I think about it constantly. I think it has to do with the fact that I want it to sound GREAT. I want good production and something I can hand to people and be proud of. I am not really in a position to pay for recording so i am my only hope. Has anybody else battled this issue? Your thoughts are appreciated.

[vivarose]

My advice is to just go for it. Experimentation is fun. People like Bob Dylan and Tom Petty aren't pretty singers but they just go for it. Somebody will appreciate your honesty.

[peeder]

Do something badly. Do it awfully. Then do it again a little better. When you get bored, do something else badly, and repeat.

[Stevengale]

Yes, I understand your dilemma. I'm in it. I used to have great gear and as a result my results turned out quite good.

Unfortunately I sold off my nice stuff and have attempted to just do some simple achive recording of just guitar & voice. It sounded like crap.

So now I'm faced with spending some dough on gear that will do at least a respectable.

I think that since I had already established a level of expctation of what is attainable with home recording devices, I've been spoiled by only having heard the good stuff.

So basically I'm screwed unless I get out that good 'ol credit card.

[captain caveman]

Originally Posted by peeder

Do something badly. Do it awfully. Then do it again a little better. When you get bored, do something else badly, and repeat.

This is great advice.

I have the same mental block about not wanting to record anything mediocre with my self-delusional masterpieces so I am nearing the end of a long journey to get the gear in place to be able to record some great (for not spending high-end $$££$$s) sounds.

The piece of advice I would give you would be to not bother recording your own songs/your best songs until you are over the initial excitement of being able to record your stuff, then passed the point of realising that it sounds like doo doo compared to real stuff then have reached the destination where at least you know enough to be able to RECORD it really well (at least if you have greatish sounding raw tracks, someone else can always add the spit and polish). I made the mistake of attempting to record a couple of good numbers and now I am sick of them.

At least that is where I am at. I'm moving into a new pad over the next few days and when the studio gets set up I'm going to go for it.

1 thing that stuck in my mind from one of the guest slots on Gearslutz was that Michael Jackson used to excercise his voice for an hour before each vocal session. I think with the immediacy of having the ability to record our own stuff it is easy to become lazy compared to the pros out there - a warm up for me would be singing take 1! Although the flip side of the coin is that there are zero (time-based) costs or limitations so however long it takes, that how long we gots.

Of course none of this may be relevant to you if you are great at recording other peoples stuff as it is, but are just apprehensive about your own, but these are my humble thoughts anyhoo.

[redddog]

My problem is that I overthink the song. I form opinions of the song before it's even close to being done and I scrap it. I do it all the time. I have to force myself to finish. Usually, the finished product turns out very well. There's almost always an element that presents itself at some point that defines the track that comes out of nowhere very frequently, near the end of tracking. Even during the mix stage. So when I bag a song, it's usually before that element comes out. It's stupid.

This of course is only with my own stuff.

Just do it. I read the Tom Petty book and one of the things that really helped me was realizing how much work writing good songs is. I consider TP to be one of the best american song writers ever and to hear him struggling with writing really opened my eyes. What he basically says is that NOBODY just sits down and writes a hit song everytime. The difference between the greats and the others is that the great ones write all the time. He said that the amount of big hits he's written is directly proportionate to the absolute shit songs he's written. He may have 25-30 great top 10 songs but he also has 300 crap songs.

That helps me get on track.

[clownjuggles]

Just try to be yourself. Be honest, and try to relate to your audience.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

I think it has to do with the fact that I want it to sound GREAT. I want good production and something I can hand to people and be proud of.

Try thinking about the recording process as a way to improve your tunes. The finished product need not be excellent every time but with a little practice you could end up with something that you are proud to give out.
Of course it helps if you actually enjoy the art of capturing music as much as making it. If you do then dive in and start recording....if it's more of a chore than I suggest that you save your ducats and get thee to a reputable studio for that demo.

Originally Posted by redddog

My problem is that I overthink the song. I form opinions of the song before it's even close to being done and I scrap it.

For me recording is just another extension of my music with lots of songwriting being accomplished in the studio.
I keep everything set up and ready to go at the drop of a hat. If I have something cooking it usually ends up on one of the hard drives by the end of the day. Sometimes those snippets end up percolating in there for quite a while...but other times a fully fledged song emerges on no time.

[firby]

Just write a whole bunch of music. I mean gobs. Soon enough you will begin to see the light. This is the artistic side of it all. Your first painting will not be Picasso quality. Too many people give up before they are really ready to say something with the medium. Also, relax. The song you are currently performing is just a work in progress. Focus on the vibe brother.

[dj_who]

Originally Posted by captain caveman

I have the same mental block about not wanting to record anything mediocre with my self-delusional masterpieces so I am nearing the end of a long journey to get the gear in place to be able to record some great (for not spending high-end $$££$$s) sounds.

wow, this one sentence has just decribed my whole life.

i suffer from perfectionism which does not allow me to just relax and let the music flow.

--from wikipedia: "Perfectionism, in psychology, is a belief that perfection can and should be attained. In its pathological form, it is a belief that anything less than perfect is unacceptable. At pathological levels, this is considered an unhealthy belief."

everyone here has given GREAT advice. thanks.

i just try to remind myself that there are so many horrible bands that think they are god's gift and who are actually successful. so i'm just trying to give myself permission to just go for it....do my best....and try to improve with every song.

i read once that john lennon hated his voice and always wanted tons of reverb to mask it. go figure.

[dj_who]

oh by the way, i think this is where i read about john lennon:

John Lennon Anthology


"The Anthology continues with demos from "Mind Games" and Walls and Bridges". By this point in his career, Lennon was self producing his albums. Since he hated his own voice(!), he tended to bury his voice in the mix, double track his vocals, add echo, or in the case of "Mind Games", add orchestration and / or layers of back up singers where they were (once again) not needed."



i think it's a badge of honor to hate your own voice.

[The Reel Thing]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Am I the only person that is afraid of recording themselves?

I'm sure you're not, but the problem you and most songwriters and singers with their own equipment have, is that maybe you shouldn't be recording yourself.
Singing/songwriting and producing/recording are such entirely different occupations and they demand such different ways of using your ears, that they can't be done at the same time by the same person (maybe Prince is a rare exception).

I record and produce artists all the time, but when I want to record my own songs, I either get a producer/engineer friend in, or I go to a different studio. I find it incredibly uninspiring to do it all myself. I start moving in circles only after a couple of takes, listening to details nobody else would ever be interested in, listening to take after take trying to decide whether it's good or not, when all I would need is a friend who says 'man, that's shite, go back in and play it well' or 'yeah that's it, leave it that way'.

Recording equipment has gotten so small these days - go to a friend's house, rent a shack in the Rockies, a little house on the beach for two weeks to do your recording. Create a situation that'll make you feel free to **** up, then it's much more likely you won't.

Good luck,

Tom

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by The Reel Thing

Singing/songwriting and producing/recording are such entirely different occupations and they demand such different ways of using your ears, that they can't be done at the same time by the same person (maybe Prince is a rare exception).

While that is absolutely true in most cases, for someone who really enjoys being in the studio and is willing to put in the time that may be needed to develop the skill set that is required to produce good sounding music, the combined disciplines can be extremely rewarding.

It still amazes me that I can take a song from inception to CD by myself, infusing it with MY creative juices at each process along the way.

Of course I am quite often in need of a severe reality check.......something that must be addressed if you tend to work for too long in a solo environment.

CAVEAT......
If you are trying to go commercial with your tunes at some point you will probably need to follow the advise offered by The Reel Thing.

I still say....record it and put it out there shamelessly for your peers to review.

SoundClick MP3: Lenny and the Scapers - Band page with MP3 music downloads on SoundClick

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Am I the only person that is afraid of recording themselves? I have decent equipment, and decent songs. I can sing and play pretty well also, but for some reason I don't take the time to record. I think about it constantly. I think it has to do with the fact that I want it to sound GREAT. I want good production and something I can hand to people and be proud of. I am not really in a position to pay for recording so i am my only hope. Has anybody else battled this issue? Your thoughts are appreciated.

I love recording.

I could record all day.


It's playing back that's the joykill for me...




___________


With regard to not recording oneself -- hiring a pro studio probably makes sense for a crucial demo.

And I like the idea of swapping recording/producing and artist roles with your pals -- that sounds like a great idea.

But -- I think recording oneself can be enormously valuable to the songwriter/artist as long as you keep your perspective and keep the songwriting/music at the top of your concerns and not obsess on quality or details.

(And who doesn't know someone just like our friends above who spend time getting everything just so -- while finding one excuse after another not to sit down and just play some damn music into a mic! I think all of us are a little like that sometimes -- and I have a buddy who is just like that ALL the time. He even joined a group for it. But it wasn't quite the right group and... no, I'm making that up.)


I'm active in a songwriter's forum over at harmony central and one thing I've found myself saying a few times is:

Until we really learn our stuff, most of what everyone writes is crap. And early on, just about everything you're going to write [and the same applies to recording/performing] is going to be crap. It's just something you have to go through, paying your dues, as it were. You must be bad (as in crummy not as in baaaaad) before you can be good.

And you may actually be LUCKIER if you're not too good too soon.

This goes back to perfectionism, again (which is a form of workaholicism -- which is a behavioral problem that, paradoxically, keeps you busily puttering away -- but also keeps you from getting anything done)...

I've seen more than a couple people who become obsessed way too early on with some magnum opus... sometimes it's only the second or third thing they've ever written.

So -- instead of burning their way through all the crap and all the mistakes we have to make to learn -- they become obsessed with tinkering their Great Work into a masterpiece. And -- yes -- if they work it long enough they often get it to be something amazingly close to what they were looking for -- but they are NEVER satisfied -- and it's often so highly personal that it doesn't necessarily work for potential audiences.

What might have been better, had they been able to manage it, would have been to just put out a lot of crap, making all the mistakes that one's gotta make, learning, changing, growing -- and, perhaps most importantly -- learning when to lavish effort on something, and when to dash something off and move on.


As I read this, I realize it's kind of like how dating is supposed to be.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I love recording.

I could record all day.


It's playing back that's the joykill for me...

Man...that is perfect!

[newfuturevintage]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Am I the only person that is afraid of recording themselves?

Of course not...I find the situation got worse as I moved away from a cassette 4-track to something fully capable. The extra gear / technology did a great job of occupying the creative side of my brain, and consequently, I write damn little of my own material, and record even less.

My suggestion? Get a low-end (or low ability) recorder. A four track or so. Even better if it's battery powered. Something limited that forces you to play music instead of getting hung up on how much better it would sound if only you had {insert piece of gear here} in the chain. Think the Zoom H4 or similar.

Use that to get your idea fleshed out. If you feel it good enough to deserve full treatment, only then should you get more heavy handed...also consider finding another studio to record your own material. Divorce your technical thought process from your musical thought process.


Or do what I did: I gave up on my own material and focused on my clients'. For better or worse

[Guitarzan]

This has been a great discussion so far and I appreciate everybody's perspectives. I think part of my problem is not thinking I have enough time to work on something, as in start and finish in one or two long days. I suppose I should just take it a piece at a time and realize that if I don't like the take, who cares, rerecord it.

[mark714]

Your recording will be full of compromise, so just accept that now.

Get somebody else involved. You AND your recording will benefit from having another set of ears around. You could get some honest feedback and you just might learn something from another engineer. That's worth $$.

Depending on your personality type, there may be no single slower way to do a record than by yourself.

In the end, your best bet is to forget your gear investment and go to a pro studio. You will have a blast and there is no better motivator than the almighty dollar. If you don't know when to quit, they will tell you or your wallet will. You will be finished when they say you are, and usually that's for the best. Use your rig for demos or overdubs and leave the rest to the pros. They will keep you on track and get you sounding your best.

[No4PCs]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Am I the only person that is afraid of recording themselves? I have decent equipment, and decent songs. I can sing and play pretty well also, but for some reason I don't take the time to record. I think about it constantly. I think it has to do with the fact that I want it to sound GREAT. I want good production and something I can hand to people and be proud of. I am not really in a position to pay for recording so i am my only hope. Has anybody else battled this issue? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Hey friend, i think the composer need play the harmony instrument at the same time in singing.
Im playing piano and singing same time. Always i get good music doing live !
Well, after the vocal recorded ( the first impression of the song ) you can dubb the other instruments !Need be fun the process , nothing more !

[wrgkmc]

Sounds like BS to me. If your a real man you'd plug that thing into a recorder and go for it every time you play. YOU'LL SPEND THR REST OF YOUR LIFE MAKING EXCUSES OF WHY YOU CANT PLAY AND RECORD GREAT SO GET DOING IT NOW. A real man sets aside time and goes and kick butt on anything he does. I'm not saying its hard rock or something. It can be the whimpyest love ballad ever but it has to be done physically on your instrument and with your voice with concentration and charisma. I have songs that Ive recorded 20~30 times to get the way I wanted them starting out 30 years ago recording on a cassette recorder, playing back through a mixer adding parts to annother cassette. Sound quality sucked but the energy level and the riffs were over the top. Now that I have good equipment it only sounds better when I put the effort into it and thats where its at. When you get old and your bones ache and muscels give out you wont be able to play well so you better do it now or be resigned to listening to the other guys stuff in that one room retirement home

[max cooper]

To me the bonus of recording at home isn't that I can spend the time to get it perfect, it's that I can work in a relaxed environment and push my recordings further out there.

And I think the most meaningful recordings are the ones that sound human. The more human, the better.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by max cooper

The more human, the better.

That really hits home.

Playing and singing...that is one thing that we humans have done for a very long time.

These days guys like us can capture it and send it out to our fellow humans to listen and groove to almost as a natural extension of the original performance.

I agree that if you have the tunes and some gear.....

Originally Posted by wrgkmc

you better do it now or be resigned to listening to the other guys stuff in that one room retirement home

[Guitarzan]

Well, I started this thread about a month ago and since then I have spent 2 solid weeks recording one song. I made my first attempt at recording drums, which sound fair but I sure learned a lot about micing and will do a much better job next time. I learned A LOT during the process and will certainly go about it differently for the next song. I think I have pin pointed my problem though, my music/recording room/home office is literaly about 10'x10'. It is hard to have mic stands set up and guitar necks swinging around. Also i am sure that it is not the greatest sounding room in the world and I don't want my recordings to reflect my enviournment. If anybody wants to take a listen you can check out my myspace. Disclaimer: this is a worship song. MySpace.com - www.myspace.com/caseyidsinga Oh yeah MP3s suck.

[spacecadet]

I was scared as all else when I first started recording my own tunes. I had grown up playing jazz sax (and actually became very accomplished at it) but instead of going to jazz conservatory I decided to learn guitar and write my own tunes.

I recorded my first four demos on a behringer 30W digital amp (Ugh!) with a $50 mic and direct in bass (with midi triggered, real drums)... and after I got used to hearing my own voice, and spending weeks tinkering with the sounds, I'm actually kind of proud of what I accomplished with those limitations.

I also found that recording gave me a much more focused sound... the thought process of hearing my scratches and then deciding what textures to add to the song took my tunes from D+ to B-! In fact, it helped so much that I'm almost hesitant to write a tune without recording it first!

Even if you're just using two mics, one on voice and one on guitar... I think its so helpful to hear your songs front to back. You'll become a better songwriter, no doubt in my mind, and you'll become a better performer.

Go for it!

[Stevil]

record everything, get used to the process. hard drive space is cheap. after a while it becomes second nature & you stop obsessing over it. i dont tell people most of the time when i'm recording them. thats when i tend to get an honest performance. once they start thinking about it too much theres a selfconciousness in the playing. some folks dont sweat it but theyre rare. if i have somebody i'm going to be working with for a while, i try to get them over their record button fear.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Well, I started this thread about a month ago and since then I have spent 2 solid weeks recording one song. I made my first attempt at recording drums, which sound fair but I sure learned a lot about micing and will do a much better job next time. I learned A LOT during the process and will certainly go about it differently for the next song. I think I have pin pointed my problem though, my music/recording room/home office is literaly about 10'x10'. It is hard to have mic stands set up and guitar necks swinging around. Also i am sure that it is not the greatest sounding room in the world and I don't want my recordings to reflect my enviournment. If anybody wants to take a listen you can check out my myspace. Disclaimer: this is a worship song. MySpace.com - www.myspace.com/caseyidsinga Oh yeah MP3s suck.

I think it sounds pretty good, overall -- but I think it'd sound a lot better with less reverb on the vocal and acoustic guitar... the thing about reverb is if you use it on EVERYTHING, things just get kinda muddy. I think it would help to keep the foreground instruments a fair amount dryer (you can add a tiny bit of longer echo to them to give more of a sense of space but go light on the verb). The dums have an interesting sound... but frankly there's so much 'verb on everything else, I'm having some trouble getting a grip on their sound.

Anyhow, I think for an early effort like this, basically (and reverb aside) it sounds really pretty good. I especially like the volume pedal guitar. When it came in in the beginning, I was thinking... what is that? Violin? Synth? Very nice.

[Now... it's beyond the purview of this forum to discuss lyrics but I spend a lot of time in a songwriting forum* elsewhere and have been doing a lot of workshop type critiques... and I have to say I have some qualms about the "you are worthy" line in context -- particularly when when considers Whom the song is directed to. I know it wasn't at all what you intended but I can't help but feel it sounds like the singer is condescending... you know? Worth -- it's such a temporal, worldly concept. Anyhow, that's outside the scope of this forum, like I said. And -- for all I know -- some of the rest of the lyric, which I wasn't able to follow very well, may very well contextualize that line in such a way that it all really works. But I hadda say something, anyhow. * -- I just realized that in my most recent post at that forum that I had just put in a sidebar addendum about that guy using too much reverb on his vocals... it's a small world, after all.]

[Guitarzan]

het blue, thanks for the constructive criticizm, i will try playing with the mix a little more and work on th reverb. i guess i was trying to hide some of the rough edges.