New Studio Advice please

[kit]

I'm going to be setting up a home studio real soon and would really appreciate some advice. I'm definately on a limited budget, which is why I'm in Low End Theory. This is what I'm thinking:

Mac G5
Pro Tools
Motu interface
Mackie Hdr 24/96
Mackie D8B
MXL 900 series mics

Mostly rock type music, some acoustic. Budget we'll say 10,000 - 15,000.

Thanks in advance, Let me know everything good and bad about this equipment. I want my sound to be solid. Also on a side note this amount of money is only the initial investment, so if you feel I should get something else that costs more go ahead and say it, I'll just have to wait to take you up on that.

Also can some one please recommend some good preamps; mic, bass, .......

Kit.

[santibanks]

Mac G5 isnt a bad choice, they are not expensive on the second hand market and I think there is still more available for it then for the intel machines. Maybe you can score a quad G5 or dual G5 which are still very fast machines and reliable and good but cheap nowadays.

Pro tools wont work with a Motu interface but I suggest Digital Performer (or audiodesk (which is included with every motu audio interface) if midi isnt your thing) which is far beyond what Pro tools can do.
Main advantage, if you ever switch to PT HD hardware, you can still use DP as a front end and have the advantage of far more voices and polyphony but also the usage of AU, MAS and RTAS plugins where with pro tools you'd only have RTAS stuff...

Mackie DB8 seems like a good choice from what I have heared, though I dont know the details about it, the software OS version seems to be kind of important...

Motu interfaces (audio?). I dont know if they are bad, they seem like good bang for bucks, but as I want a better audio interface myself (having the FW1814 from m-audio), It seems that motu isnt as good as for example Mackie or RME which are in the same price catagories (well not the Ultralite or 828 usb versions but the others certainly)

Seems like you want to record on a harddisk recorder and edit on your mac?
I dont know if the harddisk recorder has multiple adat outputs, if it has (and inputs of course), RME has good soundcards for that purpose. Multiple adat connections on a more simple card.

[kit]

Yes, i'm looking to record on the HDR and edit with the mac. Do you have more info about digital performer?

Kit

[c.gymer]

I'm going to be setting up a home studio real soon and would really appreciate some advice. I'm definately on a limited budget, which is why I'm in Low End Theory. This is what I'm thinking:

Mac G5
Pro Tools
Motu interface
Mackie Hdr 24/96
Mackie D8B
MXL 900 series mics

Mostly rock type music, some acoustic. Budget we'll say 10,000 - 15,000.

Thanks in advance, Let me know everything good and bad about this equipment. I want my sound to be solid. Also on a side note this amount of money is only the initial investment, so if you feel I should get something else that costs more go ahead and say it, I'll just have to wait to take you up on that.

Also can some one please recommend some good preamps; mic, bass, .......

Welcome to the Slutz, Kit!

First of all I should say that any advice you receive here should be taken with a pinch of salt. This forum is amazing, but the opinions here can vary so any choice you make should be based on YOUR needs, and YOUR experience.


I assume that your not going to purchase all of those, so I'll tackle a few of them and their pros/cons from my own experience.

Mac G5. Don't bother. Period. If you want to go mac then get a brand spanking new Intel model. Way more powerful and up to date. Your a fool if you buy a G5 in the current climate!

Pro Tools is not my cup of tea. I don't like the older converters (888, 882, etc) and many people here will agree, but the HD line is much better. The software still annoys me a bit, I don't know why really (I know thats unhelpful). There are much better programs out there in my opinion including Samplitude and Nuendo, but software choice is very personal. If you use Pro Tools and your happy with it then stick with it, if you want to use because other studios use it then your doomed to failure! Use what is right for you and not what is popular.

You can't use Pro Tools with a Motu interface, so I'm assuming that other sequencers on on your list. Motu make great products for the money but there nothing special. I use an 828mkII which I'm very happy because it's versatile, mobile, and sounds pretty good. It fits my needs. What would fit your needs is the question you should be asking.
Any Motu product will benefit greatly from the modification done by Black Lion Audio, so investigate this site for peoples opinions of this. A pair of 192HD's with the Black Lion mod are a fine investment and will give you 24 channels of I/O for a reasonable sum of cash. Motu's Cuemix DSP program is a great low latency monitoring solution too.

Mackie D8B. Piece of crap. Get real analogue console. Soundtracs and Toft made/make great consoles that can be had for very low prices. Don't skimp here. A good console will provide workhorse mic amps and EQs along with routing and monitoring all in one neat package.

I would seriously advise you to use the search function here and on other boards including Tape Op, Electrical Audio, and Pro Sound Web. If your serious about building a space then get clued up on acoustics and devote a large chunk of your budget to acoustics and monitors. If you have $15000 to spend total, then I would say at least a third of that should be spent on acoustics and monitors (around $2500 on each. What ever you spend on monitors should be equaled or bettered on bass traps, diffusers etc, all of which can be built at home for very little out lay). Again the search function will be your best bud here.


Best of luck to you, and I hope that helped at least a little bit.

[vivarose]

$15K? Get a loaded G5 with dual displays on eBay ($1200-$1700), a Firewire external harddrive over 200GB ($150), a set of Yamaha NS-10s with a Hafler 1500 amp ($1000 for both on eBay), the Black Lion modded Digi 002 ($800-$1000), a Presonus Digimax 96K ($1200... 8 channels into the 002 with ADAT), a Shure SM58, 2 Shure SM57s, a Shure SM7B, an AT4047 ($1200 roughly), and the best cable you can afford and you'll have a studio that will kick your original idea in the butt and some left over to give to me for my expert advice.

[manning1]

kit...
you didnt state some performance needs.
how many tracks at one time ?? do u want to record ??
this will dictate choice of sound device/ada etc.
i also dont understand why the HDR need when you can record so many tracks these days to a computer with nice ada.
before i recommend, it would be nice to know your maximum track needs.
20 ?? 40 ?? 80 ?? more ?? in a song ??

[kit]

Originally Posted by manning1

kit...
you didnt state some performance needs.
how many tracks at one time ?? do u want to record ??
this will dictate choice of sound device/ada etc.
i also dont understand why the HDR need when you can record so many tracks these days to a computer with nice ada.
before i recommend, it would be nice to know your maximum track needs.
20 ?? 40 ?? 80 ?? more ?? in a song ??

Didn't think about that when I posted. I'd say i'd want the ability to do maybe 10 at a time for the drums. with the HDR, I guess that I'm worried that a computer by itself wouldn't hold enough. Tracks, I'd say at least 24.

Thanks, and feel free to tear up my ideas, I want the best sound possible for my money. Trust me if you prove me wrong I won't be upset, just greatful that I got the right thing.

Kit.

[manning1]

kit....
some computer users are getting very high track counts.
over 100 tracks etc.
me ...i rarely do above 40 tracks.
even my old single processor pc could do 40 tracks.
those 24 traks...at what bit depth n sampling rate do you want ??
24 bit 44.1 ?? 88.2 ??
also.....how many effects in total do you anticipate running
and softsynths ?? in a song total ??
cos its starting to sound to me with 24 tracks n if your effects instances are not huge in number that a basic dual core intel core duo 2 pc or even what i have an amd dual core will be way more than adequate to do the job if u wanna save money.
main point is to get a pc with 2 gigs of ram i would recommend with
say intel core duo 2 processor and 2 fast hard drives 7200 rpm with 16 mb cache.
note the drive cache.
my own new pc cost only 630 buks n will do .well i had it up to 80 traks n gave up cos i never use that many tracks.
just to give u an idea.
post back the answers to the questions please.

[warhead]

Kit, I regularly record many tracks at a time straight to a PC with zero issues.

I think everybody's having a hard time helping you as your list seems rather redundant or is making use of some pretty old technology (d8b = discontinued digital mixer, as well as that Mackie recorder although not a bad piece there). There isn't one piece on your list that I would consider in your position actually so yes, opinions are going to vary wildly around here.

Are you a MAC guy or are you assuming PC isn't right for this application? Properly setup XP PC's are excellent period. I've literally never had an issue with my RME / Nuendo / UAD-1 PC setup...ever.

War

[gsilbers]

Originally Posted by kit

I'm going to be setting up a home studio real soon and would really appreciate some advice. I'm definately on a limited budget, which is why I'm in Low End Theory. This is what I'm thinking:

Mac G5
Pro Tools
Motu interface
Mackie Hdr 24/96
Mackie D8B
MXL 900 series mics

Mostly rock type music, some acoustic. Budget we'll say 10,000 - 15,000.

Thanks in advance, Let me know everything good and bad about this equipment. I want my sound to be solid. Also on a side note this amount of money is only the initial investment, so if you feel I should get something else that costs more go ahead and say it, I'll just have to wait to take you up on that.

Also can some one please recommend some good preamps; mic, bass, .......

Kit.

you might wana check out this video from mac.


http://seminars.apple.com/seminarson...ndex.html?s=50


i also recommend not getting a mackie digital board as i have seened more than 20 studios and provate studios just have it as strereo mixer or worst, not use it at all.
seems like a good idea at 1st. but u could check out other midi controller to move faders.

motu's stuff is really good, RMEs are the best.

[kit]

Originally Posted by warhead

Kit, I regularly record many tracks at a time straight to a PC with zero issues.

I think everybody's having a hard time helping you as your list seems rather redundant or is making use of some pretty old technology (d8b = discontinued digital mixer, as well as that Mackie recorder although not a bad piece there). There isn't one piece on your list that I would consider in your position actually so yes, opinions are going to vary wildly around here.

Are you a MAC guy or are you assuming PC isn't right for this application? Properly setup XP PC's are excellent period. I've literally never had an issue with my RME / Nuendo / UAD-1 PC setup...ever.

War

This is a list that a studio engineer here in the area gave to me to start a low budget studio. Honestly at this point I have no opinion of the equipment. If what I have listed is crap, then I'm okay hearing that, it just makes it easier for me if you can comment with a better idea or setup.

On the Mac to PC, I've very little Mac experience, just had too many people tell me that for music it's the best bet.

I talked to someone earlier that gave me a rather exhausting list, mostly stuff I'd never heard of. When I looked for reviews, it was all really good stuff, none of which I had listed.

Any ideas are helpful, think $15k, what would you do starting out with that?

Kit.

[8th_note]

OK, I'm going to start with a clean slate since it sounds like you're open to a variety of options. Like c.gymer said, you're going to get quite a range of opinions. I've had a home studio (I record local emerging bands) for about 5 years now on a pretty modest budget. I think I've got a little over $10,000 invested and the following comes from my experience so far.

1) Don't overspend on your PC and software. You'll need all the money you can scrape up for microphones, preamps, and plugins. I would suggest going with a PC and one of the lower cost DAW programs like n-Track Studio or Reaper. I use n-Track and it has done absolutely everything I need it to do. You can download the full demo and check it out.

2) I wouldn't recommend ProTools LE. The programs mentioned above are more powerful, easier to use, don't have a track count limit, and include features like Automatic Plugin Delay Compensation - which LE doesn't have. You can get a dual core screaming PC with three or four harddrives and n-Track for less than $1500. Get the PC with Windows XP, not Vista. If you have a geeky buddy, see if he/she will build a PC for you. I'm using a Athlon 2800 and I routinely get 35+ tracks with loads of plugins with no problem.

3) Non ProTools programs will use any D/A interface. I use an M-Audio Delta 1010 and a Delta 66 which gives me the ability to record 12 channels simultaneously. These are workhorse digital interfaces with rock-solid drivers. There's also a bunch of firewire interfaces that work fine.

4) If you go with an interface that includes mic preamps, such as a Presonus Firepod, you should question your need for a mixer. On your budget you'll be mixing in the box and a mixer may be redundant.

5) Good advise above on the monitors - don't scrimp there. Allocate a grand or so and you'll be fine. Dynaudio BM5A or BM6A speakers are good solid contenders.

6) Figure at least $1000 for plugins, $2000 is better. This will make a huge difference in your recordings. Spend plenty of time researching plugins and buy judiciously.

7) Microphones will make a much greater difference than which interface or software program you buy. Figure at least $3000 for microphones, cords, and stands - more is better. If you're patient, willing to research the forums, and shop ebay, you can get good mic deals.

8) I don't think anybody has mentioned The Listening Sessions. Check out this website for direct recorded comparisons between different microphones and preamps. Not only is it useful to have some idea of the different sounds, it's also invaluable to get a sense of the range of differences that the gear has.

9) And finally, don't spend it all in one place. The longer you take and the more disciplined approach you use in buying gear, the better sound you get for your buck.

[dviola]

I've done 70+ tracks in logic express with my powerbook g4....not a problem

Even if you have no mac experience I would reccomend getting one....most people who actually sit down and use them prefer them for everything....not just audio work....and it is a myth that they are more expensive than a pc

I would spend your money on room treatment, mics, outboard gear, etc....software and computers change...but good analog gear and good mics and a good room will always be that good.

pro-tools is a rip-off.

get a 57, i5, sm7, a nice pair of sdc, a nice vocal ldc, and something for bass like re20

most importantly though...test out gear yourself, in person as best you can....search this forum and other places on the net, learn and make your own decisions...its better to save your money and start out with less and learn what you like so you are better informed to make purchase decisions down the road

p.s. treat your room

[warhead]

Originally Posted by kit

$15k, what would you do starting out with that?

Computer: Dual Core PC $1300

Interface: Presonus Firestudio with MSR monitor control and Digimax FS 8 channel preamp / converter add on: $1500

DAW Software: Cubase Studio, Sonar etc, $400 to $800

Effects: Universal Audio UAD-1 "Expert Pak" $1000 (PCI-e and comes with $750 voucher to pick and choose plugs)

Monitors: Tannoy Precision 8D $1800

Microphones:

E/V ND868 $230
E/V ND468 $200
Audix i5 Pair $200
Shure SM57 $99
sE Electronics SE3 Pair $600
Apex 210 Ribbon $140
CAD M179 Pair $400

Mic stands:

On Stage MS7701B (10) $300

Cables:

Horizon QUAD 25' (8) $200
Mogami Gold 25' (2) $100

Outboard:

Safe Sound Audio P1 Preamp / DI / Compressor / Limiter $700
A Designs Pacifica Stereo Preamp $1900

Assorted patch cables, line cables etc $300

Having used every single one of these pieces against things that cost way more and way less, I can tell you that anyone who cannot make a good sounding record with these pieces has a problem other than gear. You can surf the web for months looking to one up certain pieces, but I deal with this stuff every day and not only sell but personally own many of these pieces. Any rock band that would walk in could be recorded and recorded well with these mics, interfaces, software, effects and monitors. It's also a tidy setup, not too stretched out, and doesn't toss tons of money at things like 4 different high end stereo preamps etc.

At $11,000 total (and that's buying new) it leaves you $4k for a bunch of things like room treatment, a desk, a controller if you wish (I'd go MCU) and instruments. Make sure you have nice instruments, as they will always mean more than a mic or preamp or cable or converter. When I see people dropping $3000 on a preamp to improve their guitar tones, it always makes me wonder how many different guitar heads / cabs they could buy to achieve way more versatility and choices in sound.

You could easily carve this list further down by removing the outboard pieces and strictly using the Presonus preamps which are fine on their own. The reason I mention the Safe Sound Audio P1 is that it (a) sounds good and transparent for vocal and bass tracking control and (b) is hard to screw up. The compressor / limiter are excellent for tracking without having overages, or wild dynamic range stuff happening with inexperienced talent behind the mic.

War