Which pencil condenser matched pair?

[LuKeys]

Hi Guys !

I need a pair of matched small condenser mics to be used as overheads on drums, vertical piano and other stuff.

My budget is about 300 € (350 $) ,would anybody help to choose among this 3 models :

- Oktava mk012

- RØDE NT5

- Sontronics STC1S

Any other proposal is well accepted !

Thank you all in advance !

L

[jaysunice]

Can't say anything about the ones you've mentioned, but I have the Studio Projects C4 and they've done their job(s) thus far. Some people they lack "lower body" (500 Hz down) and may have to agree --> haven't really pinpointed the problem... In essence, I probably wouldn't use them (the pair) on a guitar, just because you may miss the "body" you could get from a "full frequency" large-condenser -- so I would aim a C4 to get the picking, hand noises, and room noise, while a large condenser picks up the body of the guitar.

Nevertheless, since you want them for Overheads, they'll be great and worth the research. Who needs sub 500 Hz on OH? I'm not saying they don't get below 500, because they definitely do; it's just not their specialty. They're no KM184, but they'd be hard to beat, especially at their street price, and you'd likely save some cash versus your other choices that could be spent elsewhere...

[CassidyGT]

Can't comment on those you mentioned, but my Sennheiser e614 pair are very nice. I can't get over how good they sound stereo on my acoustic.

[jnorman]

the octava's suffer from QC issues - you may get lucky, and you probably wont.
the NT5s are pretty ho hum, IMO - i had a pair for a few weeks and found them quite harsh and difficult to tame. dont know the sontronics.

in that price range, it is hard to find a mic that has a smooth response, but i would suggest, perhaps, the AT4041s. they are about $200 each (USD), and do well on piano and acoustic guitar. i also like the akg c391b's, but they are a bit more money.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by jnorman

the octava's suffer from QC issues - you may get lucky, and you probably wont.

Those days are over. We've been a dealer for Oktava for months now and have had no issues. Yeah, they have that feeling like they were made out of an old decommissioned Russian submarine etc...but Oktava have moved away from the "we don't care about quality, give us cheap" mentality of Guitar Center and are selling lower quantities with higher quality control and fewer, smaller dealers who understand the mics.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. Two years ago I would have posted this:

War

[spazticstar]

check out the KEL Audio P-1s.
kelaudio.com

[mrmicguy]

I have a pair of AT4041's and luv em. I'm also very tempted to try out the AT450 ... but I don't need them ...

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by mrmicguy

I have a pair of AT4041's and luv em. I'm also very tempted to try out the AT450 ... but I don't need them ...

- sure ya do! (can't have too many mics, especially if you're "mrmicguy" and at least, mics don't take up much space!)

+1 on recent Oktavas - no problems with my set... so much so that I'm not all that inclined to have them modded.

[dementedchord]

do yourself a favor and check out the lower end A-T's i've got a pair of atm35's(or is it 37 cant remember at the moment one is a clip on) and they are very usable for not alot of dough.... think they may have changed the # recently....

[themaidsroom]

do yourself a favor and buy a pair of mics that you will use for the next ten years
wait and find that extra $400 or take the $400 you have now and go record in a studio
buying consumer mics will only scratch an itch....
the great mics will last
the piece of tape you record
with professionals in a real
studio will also last

all of the mics you listed are pretty
landfill destined in my humble opinion



just my 2 cents
be well


- jack

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

+1 on recent Oktavas - no problems with my set... so much so that I'm not all that inclined to have them modded.

Yeah, and it's a little strange that when it comes to mics people think mainly of Oktava as something cool to have but only as a mod. On their own, they are wonderful mics period. You can mod Neumann and make them different (better is always subjective), you can mod Audio Technica, Shure, you name it...but Oktava is almost never mentioned on these boards as a great mic you can buy and use right out of the box.

War

[dviola]

mxl 603s mogami editions..can be had very cheap

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by warhead

Yeah, and it's a little strange that when it comes to mics people think mainly of Oktava as something cool to have but only as a mod. On their own, they are wonderful mics period. You can mod Neumann and make them different (better is always subjective), you can mod Audio Technica, Shure, you name it...but Oktava is almost never mentioned on these boards as a great mic you can buy and use right out of the box.

War

Right on, I say just give 'em a chance before you mod. Oktavas (MK/C-012, in particular) have a few historical/geographical references that isolate them in fame (or infamy?) from most other mics:

1) quality control issues (really seems to be resolved now)

2) the Dorsey mod (improves on design and corrects electronic QC issues on older mics - seems like the mod is more famous than the mics!)

3) the GC thing ('nuff said)

4) the ASM - Chinese deal (urban legend of counterfeit mics that were actually legally legit but not as good?)

5) OktavaMod (a really, really great thing, but may suggest that the mics are bad without the mods - which some features on some models probably were/are, but not all?)

6) competitive selling on eb*y vs. availability from dealers (we're on to the latter, now)

7) The Sound Room (again, a really good thing, IMO - for a long time, your Oktavas weren't considered "good" unless they had been through the TSR second line of QC/matching - perhaps true in a historical context, but now?)

8) they're Russian! (I don't consider this to be a bad thing, but it is different!)

When I got mine from Ken at the beginning of this year, I was all ready to ship them off to be Dorsey modded - then OktavaMod came out with their mod, so I intended to go that route. From just about everthing I read, I assumed they'd sound like doo-doo unmodded (did read a few things that were positive, like the stock mics had more character, etc.).

I probably let them sit for a week before I even checked them out. When I did, I thought they sounded pretty good. Then I used them to record a jazz rehearsal/jam in an excellent hall. To me, it sounded really good. So, my mod funds went for time critical software upgrades and the like and I went on to use them for some other location recordings.

I'm on "no budget," these days. Mine will stay stock for now and I have better mics. I have no doubt that the Dorsey or Premium Electronics upgrades will make them sound better and you may get tighter matching from Sound Room. Go for it, if you have the inclination and funds. I may still do the OktavaMod thing, if and when things turn around for me financially, but they sound good enough stock that it's not a priority.

[Igotsoul4u]

I love those oktava's. Nice natural sound.

[redddog]

What's the difference between the Premium upgrade and the Dorsey?

[blaugruen7]

i have new comparison,
but i have the new c4s mkII and love them.
quiet and transparent, whatever that means...

[TAVD]

Originally Posted by dviola

mxl 603s mogami editions..can be had very cheap

They sure can. I bought a pair for under $40 and spent another $10 for AVX film & polystyrene capacitors. They're entirely respectable.

[Dr Bob]

Sorry for going a bit off topic but don't neglect auditioning the Oktava Mk 012 OMNI caps. For workshops I do I am always looking for excellent less expensive gear to recommend to public school music teachers for school use. Often school budgets don't allow the more high end stuff. I had heard so much about the MK 012's that I bought a pair of the cardioids and thought they were fine for the money. A little rough sounding but they have some character at least and the character is not strident nor hard to control. Now teachers often want to make good stereo recordings of their large bands and choruses so I then bought a pair of omni caps from The Sound Room to try out in our classes. Now that's the ticket. Wow. Great matching. Great image. What a big bang for the buck these things are. They are even better than the cards, or at least the particular cards I have.

Bob Miller

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by redddog

What's the difference between the Premium upgrade and the Dorsey?

http://www.oktavamod.com/mk012.html

[Coyoteous]

I would venture to say that an omni is just better for your application, not that the MK-012 omni is inherently better than the MK-012 cardioid (other than how any omni might be "better" than its cardiod counterpart - typically fewer trade-offs).

Any SDC omni (true pressure transducer) is better for certain applications than than the same SDC cardiod/hypercardioid (pressure gradient transducers), and of course, the reverse is true.

I found the hypercardioids to be very good in a small room/small ensemble situation (90 degree ORTF). The cardioids worked well in a medium room (both x/y and 110 degree ORTF), and the omnis in A-B are great for large room/large group and for very close mono recording (no proximity effect).

All the MK-012 capsules typically have better bass response than many other SDC's (many of which roll off by design). That said, I think the omni's are my favorite, too. My other two pairs of caps are getting good use, as well - just depends on the situation.

Originally Posted by Dr Bob

Sorry for going a bit off topic but don't neglect auditioning the Oktava Mk 012 OMNI caps. For workshops I do I am always looking for excellent less expensive gear to recommend to public school music teachers for school use. Often school budgets don't allow the more high end stuff. I had heard so much about the MK 012's that I bought a pair of the cardioids and thought they were fine for the money. A little rough sounding but they have some character at least and the character is not strident nor hard to control. Now teachers often want to make good stereo recordings of their large bands and choruses so I then bought a pair of omni caps from The Sound Room to try out in our classes. Now that's the ticket. Wow. Great matching. Great image. What a big bang for the buck these things are. They are even better than the cards, or at least the particular cards I have.

Bob Miller

[dasoundjunkie]

Heard really good things about the Chameleon pencil condensers but haven't tried them myself. Anyone here try them?
Thanx!

[Dr Bob]

Of course some of the diffference I was talking about between the omni and card caps for the Mk 012 is typical of differences between pressure gradient mics and pure pressure transducers. But to my ears, when compared to the other mics in my locker (we have lots of sdc's in both omni and card) the omni Mk 012 seems to be in comparison a better quality mic than the card is. That is not to disrespect the card caps in any regard. They are excellent microphones but the omni seems to be an even better example of mics of its type than the card is of mics of cardioid pattern. As they say especially regarding Oktava's YMMV. . .

Bob Miller

[Coyoteous]

- and an apple can be sweeter than an orange...

[sodiumcycle]

Originally Posted by LuKeys

Hi Guys !

I need a pair of matched small condenser mics to be used as overheads on drums, vertical piano and other stuff.

My budget is about 300 € (350 $) ,would anybody help to choose among this 3 models :

- Oktava mk012

- RØDE NT5

- Sontronics STC1S

Any other proposal is well accepted !

Thank you all in advance !

L

I was using MXL 603s and recently bought a pair of MK012s. The difference was pretty astonishing when run through 2 rane MS-1bs. They are great mics, sound excellent as drum overheads and on acoustic guitar, and work better on some vocalists than the sub $400 LDCs we have access to.

[jslevin]

For pencil mics, I have to tell you, the value of having both omni and cardioid available cannot be overstated. We recently swapped out a pair of AKG C451B's for a pair of Shure KSM-141's for this very reason, and we're very happy we did.

They function an omni pair or a cardioid pair, or sometimes they will get used in two different places with two different patterns. Maybe we'll have one in omni under the snare, and the other in cardioid as part of an unmatched pair on an acoustic guitar.

I know those Shures are a bit above your price range. The only cheaper pencil mics I know of that offer switchable patterns are the Studio Projects C4. I can't recommend them personally as I've never heard them. But I've heard things about them, and if I were in your situation, they would be the first mics I'd want to check out.

JSL