bass traps vs broadband absorbers or both? help pls

[Wholyroly]

Hey gang, I've been doing a lot of research and have gotten tons of information from this forum but I really need some help here. I have 5 days off starting on Monday and would like to get my traps and or absorbers built. My questions are:

I'm in a small 12 by 10 room and will be recording vocals and acoustic guitar, I want to try and do this with out totally deadening the room and so will try using bass traps and broadband absorbers on the walls?

from what I understand

"Bass traps" have as much exposed area as possible, basically just some insulation wrapped in breathable material with a support frame.
(I have infact looked at the specs for thickness's to use)

"Broadband absorbers" are the same thing but have a solid backing and sides?

Can someone pls correct me if I'm wrong and give me a little direction, I've been reading for days but have somehow gotten lost in all the information, thx in advace, Roly.

[Cojo]

Hi.

Allmost right, just the other way around!

"Bass traps" have as much exposed area as possible, basically just some insulation wrapped in breathable material with a support frame.

This is a broad band absorber. The wool absorbs (slow down air movement that turns into heat) all fequences down to a point depending on the thickness and material.

"Broadband absorbers" are the same thing but have a solid backing and sides?

If you put backing and sides on it it will not absorb equally good to all frequences. To get the broadest range it's best to not cover the back or sides.

If you want to make sure it's just trapping the bass you just put some thin high frequency reflective material on the front. The idea is to get the low freqs thrue the thin layer and absorbed by the insulation and get the highs reflected back.

Bass trap and broad band absorbers of this sort should be spaced from the wall equally distans as they are thick or be placed in the corners for best performance.

If you on the other hand want to absorb all the high and not the low frequences you just use a thin (1" or so) sheet of insulation without any spacing from the wall.

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by Wholyroly

Hey gang, I've been doing a lot of research and have gotten tons of information from this forum but I really need some help here. I have 5 days off starting on Monday and would like to get my traps and or absorbers built. My questions are:

I'm in a small 12 by 10 room and will be recording vocals and acoustic guitar, I want to try and do this with out totally deadening the room and so will try using bass traps and broadband absorbers on the walls?

Hi again.

If I were you, I would start putting 4" or 6" broadband absorbers in all four corners, floor to ceiling. That way you have taken care of most of the bass problems and some of the highs.

Then test play/sing in the room and if you want it more dead in the high area it's not much of a job just putting some panels on the walls.

Looking forward to see picture from the studio as the progression goes on!

[matt thomas]

if you've been doing alot of research I imagine you've seen the following, this is the must read article on the subject

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

and the associated forum

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthr...oard/24/page/1

narco

[Wholyroly]

Got a go to work right now for 12 hours, so on a quick note, thx for the info COJO, an yes Narco I've read Ethans and the Toy shop but the other link looks very helpful Ill look at it later, I still have a question or to I'll ask later for answers at you convenience, thx again, Roly, I'll post before and after room pics too, cheers.


Gonna copy and paste to look at while IM "working"

[bpape]

In a smaller room, getting enough bass control without overdeadening can be tricky. You might want to try building broadband false soffiting around the upper wall/ceiling perimeter of the room. This leaves the lower area of the room relatively live while still providing a good amount of broadband surface area.

You're still going to need a bit of softer absorbtion down low so you might want to consider facing the soffit broadband absorbtion with an FSK facing so it will minimize the amount of mids and highs (won't eliminate it but will skew the absorbtion much more toward the range of 500Hz and below.

Bryan

[Glenn Kuras]

The one bass trap you may be thinking about is a tuned bass trap. These are built in such a way to help with only certain bass problems. They do have a wooden front, back and sides (they are sealed). For most small rooms you are much better off to have a broad band bass trap, as Cojo is talking about. If you don't want to suck up all the highs in the room then you can face the bass traps with FRK to reflect the highs and it will act as a limb membrane to absorb more low end. For early reflections you do not want to use FRK on the panels.

Good luck on the room and please let us know if you have any other questions.

Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

Bryan,
check out those post times!!!!!!!!

Glenn

[Wholyroly]

Thx again for the advice, I'm going to start on this tomorrow by building some of the broadband absorbers Cojo was talking about as well as building a couple with FRK in front (will garbage bag plastic do the trick or is there a better alternative)


Bpape: In a smaller room, getting enough bass control without overdeadening can be tricky. You might want to try building broadband false soffiting around the upper wall/ceiling perimeter of the room. This leaves the lower area of the room relatively live while still providing a good amount of broadband surface area.

Your explanation makes perfect sense, just not sure what you mean in regards to false soffiting? How is this constucted, is it just placing regular absorbers around the entire perimeter of the room? or smaller style absorbers?

Myfipie: For early reflections you do not want to use FRK on the panels.

Im not quite sure what early reflections are? I will take a look at those links thx

Take it easy, Roly

[bpape]

You can do it with standard panels around the perimeter if they're thick enough.

Bryan

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Wholyroly

[SIZE=3][COLOR=Blue][COLOR=Black][SIZE=2]
Myfipie: For early reflections you do not want to use FRK on the panels.

Im not quite sure what early reflections are? I will take a look at those links thx

Take it easy, Roly

Yes you do NOT want FRK on the early reflection panels. Some people call them first reflections in the room.

Off our FAQ page on finding early reflections:
"Have a friend hold a mirror against your walls and ceiling – and then watch the mirror from your seating position while he slides it along the wall. Anywhere you can see a speaker in the mirror you will need to place treatments. Don’t forget to deal with the wall behind you as you do this exercise"

Glenn

[dynamike]

all the answers you need are here.

www.johnlsayers.com
click the link for the forums

building my whole studio based on the info here.
check it out so far.

[Wholyroly]

Originally Posted by dynamike

all the answers you need are here.

www.johnlsayers.com
click the link for the forums

building my whole studio based on the info here.
check it out so far.

Thx Mike, very helpful link. As I have coved ceilings and there seems to be a lot more bass directly in the top and bottom corners where wall meets wall, I thought I might build 6' high 2' wide absorbers as well as 1' high 2' wide superchunk bass traps for the corners. I would place a super chunk in the floor corner (built with a triangular hard surface so that I could place the removable 2' wide 6' high absorber on top and then another 1' high superchunk on top of the absorber in the top ceiling corner. I would do this in all the corners, what do you all think?

Maybe a gobo style to put between myself and my recording desk (computer noise and rear absorption/reflection)

It is a bit of a combination of two of the projects I seen on Johnlsayers.com. I'd like to keep the absorbers mobile as I have two residential spaces to record as well, the coved ceilings make it difficult for the regular 4' high by 2' wide absorber to fully contact the ceiling, there is about 4" of space where the cove wont allow it to meet the ceiling.