which tubes for mpa gold???

[analog modeling]

hi im buying an mpa digital but i want to replace its chinese tubes with better ones, which tubes would recommend? im told that different tubes gives different coloration.

so i would like some advice on this should i keep the original tubes since they are a match for the mpa or try different and better tubes?

the thing is that im going to ny in the 25th of this month so i would like to know if you know where to get the tubes there.

thanks

[woomanmoomin]

This topic seems to get covered here every other day or something.

Anyway, as the stock valves are 12AX7As, you can get some improvement by replacing them with almost any matched pair of NOS (New Old Stock) 12AX7s (including 12AX7As, 12AX7WAs, etc.), ECC83s (including ECC83Ss, ECC803Ss, etc.), 7025s, M8137s... These are all essentially the same valve.

Probably the most popular choice in this case is the NOS Mullard ECC83 (not to be confused with any current Russian reissue there may or may not be since Sovtek or somebody bought the rights to the name Mullard). Mullard ECC83s are not cheap, however. NOS GE (General Electric) JAN (Joint Army and Navy) 12AX7 type valves are also very good (the JAN denomination is generally a good sign) and are often much cheaper than the Mullards. I don't know about NY in particular, but lots of these valves are available on eBay and elsewhere online.

Be warned that the replacement valves may not make a massive difference, as a lot of the unit's sound is a result of the particular design of the circuit.

One NYC eBay valve seller I can recommend has the eBay ID we-252. You might be able to arrange something with him. Here are his current listings of 12AX7s etc.

PS I've just checked my records and his name is Shu W. Yu.

[analog modeling]

what about Tung-Sol 12AX7 / ECC803-S Goldhttp://us.st1.yimg.com/store1.yimg.c.../trans_1x1.gifor telefunken?

[BOWIE]

Yea, this topic is covered way too much.
Don't spend too much on these tubes.
Your best bang for the buck will be Vintage Tung Sols and of-labeled Amperex. Mullards will probably make the thing more dark and muddy.
Tung Sol has a nice upper-mid peak and huge bass.
Amperex is bright.
PM me if you need to buy some.

Oh, and the GE's that Woomanmoomin mentioned are fantastic value. Beats the hell outa any modern tube and costs less than some modern tubes! They have the American, upper-mid boost going on.

[analog modeling]

so would u recommend gettin different tubes and try them on or not worth it........... anyone knows what else can be upgraded on this unit?

there seems to be a lot of ppl who likes the mullard 12at7 when you mean dark and muddy do u mean all mullards? where can i get the ge s?

[Ironklad Audio]

i can tell you that i sure as shit wouldn't want to put a "dark and muddy" type of tube in an MPA gold...i got one a few weeks ago, and describe its tone as exactly that

while it does sound nice, it seems to have less clarity/definition that the other preamps at my disposal(mackie onyx)

edit: does anybody have any experience with JJ's in these units? i know they're known for being great in guitar amps, but how about applications such as this?

[analog modeling]

well i hope they sound better than the pres on my 01v96 ... not that i complain about them(they have served me well) but i was looking to upgrade them (at least 2). i have 600 dollars and initially thought of the twintrak pro till i was told the platinum series sound shitty (that series seem to be a merch strategy for home studio audio consumers (easytarget)...since an average of ppl thinks focusrite is great for their prestige made with isa and red series) i also considered the rnp with the rnc but i wanted a different colored sound and the good thing bout mpadig is that i can still use it through the 01v96 eqs and comp (i would really like to know how good is the mpadig adc (or how bad) is it better than the 01v96 and 001 adc s?) ......well if i buy the mpadig id still have 200 ...i was planning of spending them on a mx200 from lex to save cpu on my mixes i tried one with pt hd on a 192 and a c24 and i liked it ..........

still i would like to hear opinions .........can i do better?? with 600 dees?
i also thought of dav but i dont know where to get it in ny (im goin on the 25 of this month) i still have bout 10 days to make up my mind.

comments would be apreciated..

[analog modeling]

what about these Pair matched NOS GE JG-5751 (12AX7,7025,ECC83?) tubeshttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/uk/s.gif</IMG>

[BOWIE]

Regarding Mullards, they are some of the world's best tubes, but not in low-end gear. The reason that Mullards are considered the ultimate guitar amp tube is because they roll off the high frequencies pretty dramaticly. This sounds killer on a high-gain electric guitar. Sounds muddy in an ART. You want to brighten things up.
DON'T buy off ebay unless you like to gamble. Many sellers w/ good feedback screw people over because very few buyers that have tube testers. Even then, testers can be very innacurate. I used to get screwed lest and right til I found some reputable people through trial and error.
That last auction you posted is pretty expensive. Especially for 5751's. I sell pairs of Amperex or TungSol 12AX7's for the same price.
Be aware that when you change the gain (switching from 12AX7 to some other gain) in pro audio gear things can easily start to sound "warped".

[frankie c]

HI,

I don't have the same preamp, but i did upgrade the 12ax7 tubes in my Blue tube preamp, and my AKG solidtube mic..

I used a TELEFUNKEN ECC83/12ax7 and i definatley heard an improvement...

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by BOWIE

Regarding Mullards, they are some of the world's best tubes, but not in low-end gear. The reason that Mullards are considered the ultimate guitar amp tube is because they roll off the high frequencies pretty dramaticly. This sounds killer on a high-gain electric guitar. Sounds muddy in an ART. You want to brighten things up.

I respectfully disagree in one situation that is pretty common for the people who can only afford an mpa gold.

One reason to buy an mpa gold is that it doesn't have quite as sharp high frequencies as something more intense in the same price bracket like the focusrite platinum series (which is very crisp and accurate and tight).

For most of the condensor mics that are affordable in the project studio and home studio crowd there is quite a pronounced high frequency rise that generally sounds harsh compared to the great studio mics. (If anyone wants a visual example, check out the mxl mic website and look at the frequency response plots of each of their condensor mics - only one that is mildly tame is the v67, but MXL admirably is one of the few honest companies making chinese mics and they openly show the frequently 10db peak around 8 khz).

With stock tubes the mpa gold helps those types of mics already a tiny bit, warming that high sound a speck, it's a good thing. With more rolled off sounding tubes it makes a bigger difference, and isn't muddy at all unless you're already using good warm sounding mics (in which case I personally would want another mpa gold with brighter tubes in it as well, something I'm probably going to do soon).

I actually just switched out the tubes in my mpa gold for the first time yesterday with NOS mullards that I borrowed from a friend for this little test. It made a huge difference, and for my purposes was quite a dramatic improvement.

Quick summary - I own it, I use it professionally in my own studio and also often bring it to my gigs at other studios where I make my real money. I use it with stock tubes and it's been chosen over other pres sometimes due to it's good match with a particular mic.

MPA gold's are hybrid preamps, two solid state gain stages and one true tube gain stage running at high plate voltage (voltage selected from switch), and it's not a dialed in effect, it's a real tube gain stage. The only thing misleading is the stupid led meters on the front of the unit saying "Tube warmth" which are really saying how much signal is going through the tube gain stage, like any other level meter.

Even though I already really like the mpa gold stock, I was prepared to admit that the art just wasn't going to have that extra magic, that mojo, I was looking for from swapping tubes, but would have been satisfied anyway. But I'm honestly blown away at the difference, so if anyone's curious, at least play around with the tubes and see if you like it. I personally don't think anyone should buy tubes from a place like ebay where returning them might be really difficult if you don't like them though. I am lucky enough to be able to try tubes in my gear before paying. Unusual but nice situation! However my tube choice may have been too extreme for many users, I was looking for an obvious difference, and boy did I find it. certainly helps those harsh chinese mics though!

Cheers,
Don

[woomanmoomin]

To be honest, I'm getting a little bored of this question. Investing a few dollars in a 12AX7 or two and then fitting them is not that big an experiment or deal.

[analog modeling]

ill use the mpa mainly with kms44, nt1a, and 57 s so which tubes do u think will flatter most the sound of the mics? also i would like to know some reliable tubes stores in ny .........i live in colombia so this buy has to be the right...one.....i cant return the tubes .......

some advice plz......


dkelley: u seem to know the mpa pretty good, can u tell its pros and cons?

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by analog modeling

ill use the mpa mainly with kms44, nt1a, and 57 s so which tubes do u think will flatter most the sound of the mics? also i would like to know some reliable tubes stores in ny .........i live in colombia so this buy has to be the right...one.....i cant return the tubes .......

some advice plz......


dkelley: u seem to know the mpa pretty good, can u tell its pros and cons?

I can't recommend tube models, I don't know enough about the differences, but there are a few threads here already that list a couple of good tubes for mics and I'm pretty sure they'd work well in the mpa gold as well.

pros and cons:
pros:
- very high gain, suitable for the lowest output ribbon and dynamic mics
- continuously variable input impedence and high pass filter controls, amazing at any price point
- very quiet (low noise)
- true high plate voltage tube gain stage, offering the pros and cons that go along with tubes (slightly higher distortion, somewhat less linear frequency response, possibly perceived warmer tone as a result, certainly different from clean solid state units)
- nice metering, two channels, nice instrument DIs on each channel, phase reverse, phantom, optional low plate voltage if you want to make the tube stage into a distortion effect (people have done stranger things than that)
- adjustable analog meters (both for voltage level and fine trim)

cons:
- two rackspaces taken up
- can get rather warm, better to leave another rack space open above it or put it at top of an open topped rack
- not the greatest quality potentiometers and switches, they feel ok but can be noisy
- input gain controls have a strange and rather sudden boost in highest end of the control, the last 5%, sort of like a 10db gain boost that suddenly kicks in (not sure of the actual level boost though). So you get nice musical gain levels but then a sudden boost without much subtle control in the last bit of the knob. I generally leave the input gain controls cranked on this unit anyway and use the other knobs and 20db boost switch to control the real output level, then from there I watch the led tube gain level meter to see if it peaks. if it does, I start to lower the level until things are safe.
- emphasizes the mids of the frequency range (very slightly) compared with the highs and lows, although that depends on the mics used (some are less affected by the tone of this pre). Can be good, especially for vocals and guitars and musicality, not necessarilly the best for dance/techno/industrial, but it really depends on how you need it to sit in the mix and your tastes.
- no input transformers, although having no input transformers is quite common these days even on some high end gear, I just happen to prefer iron core input trannys since I'm really used to using that extra coloration as an eq effect, but that's really just preference, not a con for the unit in general.
- not the greatest transient reponse in the world, however people do use it for drums with great success and I expect that's partly due to it's veyr different sound from a super fast class a solid state preamp. Matter of choice again, not really a con, just a comment.
- jacks aren't great quality either

summary: for the price it's a steal, but you can't get a miracle for only a little cash. So compared with other cheap gear the build and parts quality is in the middle I'd say, but better in terms out sound quality and musicality than most of the competition unless you're looking for another very clean preamp, which is honestly much more common than something nice like this mpa gold.

Cheers,
Don

[analog modeling]

so between and mpa digital and a twintrak pro which one would u recommend?

[Acoustic Cloud]

man, you asked him to talk about the ART as much as he could, and you are now tweaking about another option?!?!?

GO TO YOUR ROOM!!!!! menso!!!

[analog modeling]

im into the mpadig, im actually gonna buy it...just wanted to know what would he say bout the twintrak since he s one of a few ppl who havent bashed it.


menso......that s an offensive word in spanish.... i thought this was place where u could ask things........
unless it means something else and im being paranoid?

[mamm7215]

FWIW, I put the JJ ECC83's in mine and it cleaned the sound up nicely from stock Chinese tubes. I run either an SM57 or SP-C1 through ch.1 and use ch.2 for bass. Works great for me.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by analog modeling

so between and mpa digital and a twintrak pro which one would u recommend?

haha, totally different sounding units. complete opposites. I own focusrite and the mpa gold, so I can comment on it. I use a twintrak in one studio regularly, although I own a trakmaster pro personally. I find the preamps of those two focusrites sound similar, certainly from the same family values if you know what I mean, and I am one of the few people who praise the focusrite platinum series preamps here, many bash them, but I like them since they sound completely different from the mpa gold and my other pres. I guess you'll notice I like pres that offer different colors. If I want neutral, I use the pres in my yamaha rm800 board or presonus outboard pres.

Summary: focusrite and mpa gold are not neutral, but mpa gold is middier and fuzzy warm kinda tube like, and focusrite is tight and heavy and sizzly and has it's own mojo and slightly scooped sound on certain mics.

focusrite: slightly scooped sounding midrange, very very clean and great transient response, a little bright and a little rich, but not "warm", I think it's very modern sounding and is great for almost anything but can show the harshness of modern cheap chinese mics (almost all of 'em). Great for dynamic mics, and I actually prefer my voice through an re20 or pvm 520 and a focusrite twintrack or trakmaster to any combo with my mpa gold.

art: However for every other vocalist out there my mpa gold is my first goto choice since it shows the warmth of their voices better. only exception is some metal recordings I've done, and one rap vocalist who thought he sounded better through the focusrite (although I didn't, but it was a fine line so I let him win). I think if you have great mics in a great room, focusrite is very useful and I love it for very certain voices and instruments (Great for bass too, modern sound). Bright mics, most vocalists, souces needing extra warmth and something just extra, mpa gold.

Hope it's helpful, I'm pretty done on this thread now :-)

anything more and I'll start irritating myself, not to mention everyone else hahaha

You know, you wont' go wrong with either company. I recommend getting both when you can afford to so you have color choices. you'll be shocked at how different and good they both sound.

Cheers,
Don