mic a drum kit with 4 channels

cjogo · 13th April 2007, 05:41 AM

Need to mic up a trap kit...........will have 4 channels available........here is the mic arsenal ::: 414 -- Sen 421 --- AKG 3600 - U87 - AKG300B-- CS 1000.....any ideas

--

I was thinkin' ~~

Neumann (on Omni) OVERHEAD or 414 (figure 8 ? )

AKG 3600 KICK

AKG 300b SNARE/HAT

421 TOMS

there will be lots of bleed--from the big open room

nice wood trim on this 89

pbell · 13th April 2007, 06:02 AM

Well I've used four mics before, I've also gotten away with two - it's what they used on The Beatles kit back in the day.

I would try the 421 on the kick and then maybe the u87 OH or the 414 and see if just the two mics gets a decent sound. Maybe add something to the snare.

If you want to use all 4 I'd go with two OHs, Snare and Kick. I havent heard a 3600 in use or the 300 so I really can't advise you with those. Maybe the 421 on the kick, 300 on the snare, u87 and 414 OH.

I saw a neat 4 mic technique with one mic overhead and the other mic kinda behind the kit, by the floor tom but pointed towards the whole kit. It was done with two ribbon mics (Royer 121s I think) and it sounded pretty good. You could try a technique like that with one mic on the kick and another on the snare.

I'd experiment. Happy Recording!

peeder · 13th April 2007, 06:31 AM

You might space the U87 and 414 pair, but you might instead mid-side them...the 414 in fig-8 capturing ambience while the U87 in omni captures the kit. The 421 on kick and whatever works best on snare.

cjogo · 13th April 2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peeder

You might space the U87 and 414 pair, but you might instead mid-side them...the 414 in fig-8 capturing ambience while the U87 in omni captures the kit. The 421 on kick and whatever works best on snare.

great idea --just mid-side them & drop the 421 to the kick

halcyo · 13th April 2007, 05:59 PM

Check out the 'Recorderman' mic setup. It's a 3 mic setup that seems weird, but does a nice job capturing a kit with minimal placement problems.

Here's a little video to show you how it's done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ

Add a kick mic (and maybe a snare mic) to that, and you should have a pretty good sound.

halcyo

drBill · 13th April 2007, 06:48 PM

Definatly 421 on kick. Recorderman Technique with the 87 over the shoulder and 414 over the sn. Then.....?? Something on the Snare. See if you can borrow a 57 and you're good to go.

cjogo · 13th April 2007, 11:37 PM

Maybe I will bring a few mics ---when I engineer out of my studios--I usually bring nothing along..but thanks for the quick tips

Thrice_Removed · 14th April 2007, 12:07 AM

^^Yeah if you can afford a 414 and U87, then I def think you should be able to go out and get an SM57 for the kick - and if buying those mics bankrupted you - then go steal one.

1monkey1 · 14th April 2007, 12:54 AM

i've had good results with one overhead over the shoulder pointing diagonally across the kit, but you can adjust the front overhead and get different vibes. if you pull the front overhead from being directly over the kit to being in front of the kit a bit you can get more of the kick and more of the perspective of what it's like listening in front of a kit. then you can blend that directly over rear mike and the in front pointing over mike to get what you like.

i hope this made sense, i tried.

steven walcott
www.engine-studios.com

cjogo · 14th April 2007, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrice_Removed

^^Yeah if you can afford a 414 and U87, then I def think you should be able to go out and get an SM57 for the kick - and if buying those mics bankrupted you - then go steal one.

I have plenty of gear in my studio --I just don't usually carry it along to another studio....I will be engineering for a week & won't hurt to bring along my trusty 57 ( I bought in 1976

) BUT then they will want a preamp or two

>>> I thought I could use their AKG 3600 for the kick

Will be mastering back in my studio --world/jazz music --my second project with them

espen askelad · 14th April 2007, 02:56 AM

Could maybe do kick/snare and then recorderman with 2 complementary mics. Today I did some drums with an omni right over my head/behind me, a 4047 on the kick (no hole in resonant head,) an SM7b on the snare, and
a ribbon out about 5 feet maybe 3 and half feet up from the floor. Mixed in mono, a little compression on everything, a LOT of compression on the ribbon room. Sounded colossal. Will other instruments be live in the room at the time?

cjogo · 14th April 2007, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by espen askelad

Could maybe do kick/snare and then recorderman with 2 complementary mics. Today I did some drums with an omni right over my head/behind me, a 4047 on the kick (no hole in resonant head,) an SM7b on the snare, and
a ribbon out about 5 feet maybe 3 and half feet up from the floor. Mixed in mono, a little compression on everything, a LOT of compression on the ribbon room. Sounded colossal. Will other instruments be live in the room at the time?

Big open room --Grand Piano --- lots of Conga/Percussion & Guitarist /Bass (hopefully direct on those two )

http://www.redshift.com/~cjogo/TUNES...LL%20PIANO.jpg

StevieRaveOn · 14th April 2007, 04:47 PM

Newb here, but I remember a session that I was helping with, and we happened to get a great sound out of the Recorderman OH setup, something on the kick, and then an LDC setup about 3 feet back from the front of the kick about 2 ft off the ground.

With those 4 alone it was a better sound that we thought we were gonna get int he room we had... We close miced other things, but those 4 were used for 95% of the sound.

Good luck.

*CISKO* · 17th April 2007, 09:10 PM

damn it i was beat to the mid side suggestion!!
that is a fantastic suggestion with 421 on kick and what ever on snare.

majortom · 18th April 2007, 01:31 PM

The Glyn Johns setup might work for you. Two "overheads", kick and snare. It has a nice balanced sound.

Glyn Johns drum mic setup

donsolo · 18th April 2007, 06:06 PM

M-S is going to be an issue because the U87 and 414 aren't matched. It's a sound but it won't truly sound stereo where the EQ characteristics are different.
When you take M+S=L, the phase interaction is what creates the L effect.
THEN AGAIN, it'll sound wide wide wide just not true stereo.
I would also try M-S with the 414 in Omni and the 87 as M. That's going to be a very different sound. Also not true stereo. The hardest part with really trying to capture true stereo is needing matched pairs.

I'd do a Triangle setup, Stereo Overheads and a kick. Put something under the snare if you need more snare like the 3600, check for phase.

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13th April 2007, 05:41 AM	#1
cjogo Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CARMEL Posts: 744	mic a drum kit with 4 channels Need to mic up a trap kit...........will have 4 channels available........here is the mic arsenal ::: 414 -- Sen 421 --- AKG 3600 - U87 - AKG300B-- CS 1000.....any ideas -- I was thinkin' ~~ Neumann (on Omni) OVERHEAD or 414 (figure 8 ? ) AKG 3600 KICK AKG 300b SNARE/HAT 421 TOMS there will be lots of bleed--from the big open room nice wood trim on this 89 __________________ Crystal Studios

13th April 2007, 06:02 AM	#2
pbell Gear maniac Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 199	I've done this a few times Well I've used four mics before, I've also gotten away with two - it's what they used on The Beatles kit back in the day. I would try the 421 on the kick and then maybe the u87 OH or the 414 and see if just the two mics gets a decent sound. Maybe add something to the snare. If you want to use all 4 I'd go with two OHs, Snare and Kick. I havent heard a 3600 in use or the 300 so I really can't advise you with those. Maybe the 421 on the kick, 300 on the snare, u87 and 414 OH. I saw a neat 4 mic technique with one mic overhead and the other mic kinda behind the kit, by the floor tom but pointed towards the whole kit. It was done with two ribbon mics (Royer 121s I think) and it sounded pretty good. You could try a technique like that with one mic on the kick and another on the snare. I'd experiment. Happy Recording! __________________ Paul "He with the most gear goes to Heaven"

13th April 2007, 11:37 PM	#7
cjogo Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: CARMEL Posts: 744	Maybe I will bring a few mics ---when I engineer out of my studios--I usually bring nothing along..but thanks for the quick tips __________________ Crystal Studios

17th April 2007, 09:10 PM	#14
CISKO Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: bogota colombia Posts: 128	damn it i was beat to the mid side suggestion!! that is a fantastic suggestion with 421 on kick and what ever on snare. __________________ silly rabbit, trix is for kids!

13th April 2007, 06:31 AM	#3
peeder Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Working on my skills more =) Posts: 6,686	You might space the U87 and 414 pair, but you might instead mid-side them...the 414 in fig-8 capturing ambience while the U87 in omni captures the kit. The 421 on kick and whatever works best on snare.

13th April 2007, 05:59 PM	#5
halcyo Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 402	Check out the 'Recorderman' mic setup. It's a 3 mic setup that seems weird, but does a nice job capturing a kit with minimal placement problems. Here's a little video to show you how it's done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiFOD1EeKhQ Add a kick mic (and maybe a snare mic) to that, and you should have a pretty good sound. halcyo

13th April 2007, 06:48 PM	#6
drBill Lives for gear Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,748	Definatly 421 on kick. Recorderman Technique with the 87 over the shoulder and 414 over the sn. Then.....?? Something on the Snare. See if you can borrow a 57 and you're good to go.

14th April 2007, 12:07 AM	#8
Thrice_Removed Gear Head Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 57	^^Yeah if you can afford a 414 and U87, then I def think you should be able to go out and get an SM57 for the kick - and if buying those mics bankrupted you - then go steal one.

14th April 2007, 12:54 AM	#9
1monkey1 Gear maniac Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NYC Posts: 232	i've had good results with one overhead over the shoulder pointing diagonally across the kit, but you can adjust the front overhead and get different vibes. if you pull the front overhead from being directly over the kit to being in front of the kit a bit you can get more of the kick and more of the perspective of what it's like listening in front of a kit. then you can blend that directly over rear mike and the in front pointing over mike to get what you like. i hope this made sense, i tried. steven walcott www.engine-studios.com

14th April 2007, 02:56 AM	#11
espen askelad Gear addict Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 431	Could maybe do kick/snare and then recorderman with 2 complementary mics. Today I did some drums with an omni right over my head/behind me, a 4047 on the kick (no hole in resonant head,) an SM7b on the snare, and a ribbon out about 5 feet maybe 3 and half feet up from the floor. Mixed in mono, a little compression on everything, a LOT of compression on the ribbon room. Sounded colossal. Will other instruments be live in the room at the time?

18th April 2007, 01:31 PM	#15
majortom Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 499	The Glyn Johns setup might work for you. Two "overheads", kick and snare. It has a nice balanced sound. Glyn Johns drum mic setup

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