I know I bore you, but indulge me... $1000.

[burningbuilding]

$1000, a macbook pro, a guitar and some mics.

What would get me started getting stuff into the computer at a reasonable quality with flexibility in mixing?

I've done my research for sure, but honestly im quite curious to hear a. something other than cold magazine ads and corporate product specs and b. reading answers to someone else's differently phrased (and intended?) question.

Ive read through the various similar threads on the website here, but honestly I havent found anyone who just wants something simple and "modestly good" quality.

-austin-

[burningbuilding]

The options I've considered are as follows

Motu ultra Light and digital performer: their website sucks and it's hard to find any "reasonable" info on either product.

Mackie (anything) and tracktion 3: I dont think this will be worth the money dfegad

Digidesign Mbox2: It's protools i guess. Really the best option I'd imagine, but i hear so many people complaining about it (much more than actually suggesting it)

M-audio (anything) and protools: < mackie dfegad



I guess Im not too particularly fond of seperating things out, as it makes troubleshooting that much more of a headache.

Comments?

[Birdi]

hey ya,

an mbox would probably do the job for you. easy to get up and running on a mac. I'm about to get an mbox mini for doin on the job edits when working in the theatre. I got no problem with them, had one of the original ones a few years ago.

B.

[tyro]

I would consider motu ultralite. I've had it about a year now and it has never crashed on me. Very sturdy built, the case is rugged metal. Even if you now think you only need 1 or 2 inputs, it's good to buy something to grow with. 8 analog ins (2 of them xlr/trs combo jack) 2 digi ins on spdif. 10 analog outs (8 analog outs, analog main outs) and 2 spdif outs, plus headphone out - in all 14 outs. That's quite a good amount of i/o for the price and portability IMO. All of this bus powered via firewire, rock solid for me with logic pro7 on a macbookpro core2duo.

I use it live on stage, using all the inputs and phantom power with the ultralite buspowered. works great, never a hiccup. takes 4 seconds to boot up, then it's ready to go. For me it is very important with the rugged casing. It has been dropped more than once, someone spilled some water over it, people has kicked it... Stages can be dangerous places for small audio gear residing on the floor, but the ultralite has always kept working perfect.

Also, the cuemix console is a great way to give out separate headphone mixes (using it with a headphone amp with separate inputs) via the different outs. or you could send out some channels from your daw to outboard and record it back. Those outputs come in handy, at least for me.

Another great thing about it is that the input sensitivity on the trs ins are variable in 1db steps (I think, it's that or 0.5db steps). I think from -10 to +18 (I don't have access to the ultralite now, but it's something in that ballpark). Sure, you could adjust the source instead but being on stage, with some synths plugged in and the keyboardist standing 10 meters away hidden by 5 other people, it's nice to be able to adjust that input sensitivity rather than shouting "turn than f-ing synth down or else"...

All in all: worth the money, not bad sound quality (you can always do better but not for the price I don't think), rugged and stable. I hear great things about the rme fireface400 too, look into that if you need more i/o (via adat optical on the ff400). It was that or the ultralite for me, but me looking for an interface strictly for live use (applying dub fx to various sources onstage) I didn't need that much i/o and the motu felt more rugged in it's casing. Plus it was a lot cheaper, got a great deal on it.

/magnus

[moon_unit]

You don't really bore me.

Seriously. I don't even know you.

[Unclenny]

I'm a bit bored....but it's not your fault. I'm between mixes.

Get an MBox.

[Nu-tra]

Presonus firestation or pod depending on fire wire or pci. comes with cubase LE and you can use almost any software with it. you get 8 channels of preamps too.

[burningbuilding]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

You don't really bore me.

Seriously. I don't even know you.

Wanna go out for coffee sometime?


------------

Thanks for the responses so far. I noticed this made it into low end theory somehow (i spent the last 20 minuts looking for it in music computers) so it should probably be moved

I've not heard anything positive about cubase, i suspect there are people happily using it, but I also know there are hundreds of people very not happy with it.

Does anyone know if the mbox would work with DP?

[treymonfauntre]

Originally Posted by burningbuilding

Wanna go out for coffee sometime?


------------

Thanks for the responses so far. I noticed this made it into low end theory somehow (i spent the last 20 minuts looking for it in music computers) so it should probably be moved

I've not heard anything positive about cubase, i suspect there are people happily using it, but I also know there are hundreds of people very not happy with it.

Does anyone know if the mbox would work with DP?

you need to keep things in perspective when it comes to negative reviews on the internet.

[burningbuilding]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

you need to keep things in perspective when it comes to negative reviews on the internet.

That's why I've came here asking for opinions and suggestions. It's much easier to gauge what someone means when you've been following the conversation from start to finish.

It is quite saying when you can find unhappy cubase users without even trying, and actually finding unhappy DP users is nearly impossible. 50/50 on protools, i suspect pebkac on most of those though.

[Spectacle]

If you qualify for an education discount, Logic Express would be a fantastic choice for your DAW: it's only $149 with the discount, and it is about 90% of the way towards Logic Pro. Then focus on getting the best interface, mics, and plugs you can. In that area, it would all depend on what you do most. If you're very much about guitar, or if you want a full-featured drum studio in the box, you might think about Amplitube 2.0, Guitar Rig 2, BFD, or EZDrummer. And if you're a synth guy, Reason 3.0 would be good. As I say, it really depends on what type of music you'll be playing.

Best of luck.

[thermos]

If you want good quality, lots of IO, and decent pres, I'd probably get the Metric Halo 2882. I think they are a little less than a grand. (I think it has 8 preamps, which is good for drums if the situation presents itself). Daw.....Hmm. I use Digital Performer 5.11 and its ROCKING on a Macbook.

[dviola]

garage band seems adequate for the time being and its free since you said you were looking for "moderate quality"...i would get some hardware...software seems less important and can be stolen if you're morally/finacially bankrupt like I am..logic express is definately a step up but garageband has great features..what instruments will you be recording? what type of music?

[big country]

Im not going to say I dont like DP BUT, I think cubase is way more intuitive. it seems like it would be easyer to learn. the only time I use
DP is when I try to do electronic music. ( if its really that ) ( I think of
electronic music as filters and osilators, shit like that... not a program)

cubase is cool for tracking in my book, never used it for midi?

[Ashofapheonix]

I've been using digital performer, and its work flow is different from other audio programs, you'll run into a brick wall a lot at first , and it will be frustrating, once you over that hump you might like the way they're lay out its a work flow you have to learn but in the end it can be faster. I personally prefer audition and Sonar. If i'm not mistaken Cubase LE is not universal binary which wouldn't go well with a mac book/mac book pro.

I second the whole motu thing, there very good and very mac friendly. The 8 pre is a nice solution for bands, and the Ultralights a good one if you need a lot of line in. You can daisy chain the two and you get even more I/O. The 8 pre can also be used an ADAT preamp Motu comes with Audio Desk but thats also not Universal Binary. So I'd say look into logic express, possibly Tracktion if it is universal binary. I've had a chance to play around with tracktion 2 compared to the budget bin stuff its quite feature rich.

[jslevin]

Sounds like you only need a couple of inputs -- you didn't say. Best overall sound/software quality for the dollar, pick up a ULN-2 and DP. At this point in history, there can't possibly be a good reason to invest any time or money into Cubase on a Mac. (Typical counter-argument: "Well, I like Cubase." Good for you, dude. I liked MacPaint, but life goes on.)

For all the pissing and moaning, there is no better hardware/software package for the money than an Mbox 2 (any model). Particularly if the entry-level track limit (32 active at any given moment) is not an issue for you, which it sounds like it isn't. You can get better hardware, you can get better software. But it's a total package, cheap, decent sound quality, and compatible with every pro facility in the world -- plus more serious home recordists than any other system.

JSL

[burningbuilding]

Ok to clarify for the fine (lovely) people helping me.

Just guitar and singing, maybe some live drums but very basic 1-2mic kinda thing. Very simple music. I like to experiment when mixing though.

Ive played with garageband but it seems like it is more for people who like to work with software instruments and loops than actually "recording". I guess I wont be able to get away from that much these days.

Metric Halo seems to be almost my entire budget!?! Curious to where you folks are finding MH stuff with room to get a decent program?

[Ashofapheonix]

2 channels 1000$. and you have absoluteley nothing and want to experiment with mixing? or do you have some stuff?

I'd recommend looking into something like a Presonus Firebox/Saffire LE there about 300.00, a Cheap DAW like Logic Expres, if your a student you can get this 50% off from apple direct. Thats 600.00, another option is the digidesign stuff, I'm not a protools user, so I can't comment. Protools though began as an audio editor, and I hear it is intuitive for this application, though for me 32 track limit (or 48) is a killer, and being a pc user Sonar and Audition can do far more in terms of a little more money.

You need some monitors, and you can't use headphones. Their are good article explaining why if you google. The reason is most people hear whats on a headphone differently from the next guy because the way headphones fit on heads are different. In edition headphones are generally too present, and your going to have a hard time leveling. Their are pros who do some mixing on headphones, but these guys know their ears and gear well and usually are checking their mixes on really highend monitors any way. The cheapest bracket of nearfields that are workable are about 300$ and your lookng at KRK RP5s, Event Tr5s, Tapco S5s, and Wharfedale Diamond 8.xs here.

A budget condensor would go well with that fire box, like a studio projects B1 or Audiotechnica AT2020. The B1 is great on acoustics, but not so great on vocals. The AT2020 has little proximity effect.

and theres a 1000$ recording rig for acoustic guitars.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by burningbuilding

Ok to clarify for the fine (lovely) people helping me.

Just guitar and singing, maybe some live drums but very basic 1-2mic kinda thing. Very simple music. I like to experiment when mixing though.

Ive played with garageband but it seems like it is more for people who like to work with software instruments and loops than actually "recording". I guess I wont be able to get away from that much these days.

You're a Pro Tools person.

MBox2 factory will get you started. You can add better converters to it later. It needs them. (Behringer Ultramatch is said to be a decent set of verters for $120 odd...I haven't heard them. I have the RME ADI-2 which is very good for ~$700)

So a budget might be

MBox 2 factory $550
Behringer Ultramatch $120 (try zzounds)
M-Audio DMP3 $150
2 CAD M179's $400
2 SM57's $200

The extra converters let the MBox 2 record 4 discrete simultaneous channels. So you get 4-mic drums (M179 overheads thru outboard, 57's on kick and snare) and can then overdub. Stick with the outboard pair when possible...the onboard pre and verters suck.

Then you need good monitors...perhaps KRK is a cheap option. Mackie HR824's are very good for $1000/pair. Get a high-end set of headphones to check bass and detail (I like ultrasone 750) since you won't have a treated room, but you still have to mix on the best monitors you can afford.

That's what I'd do if I were you. Have fun.

[Spectacle]

Peeder, those are some good suggestions, but his budget is $1000.

Here's what I'd say, based on your needs:

Logic Express ($149 academic -- if you aren't a student or faculty, have a friend or relative who is make the purchase on-line for you) This runs rings around Garageband, and it's filled with all kinds of good effects for your audio tracks, mixing, etc.

Decent nearfield monitors ($300) Crucial

One good large diaphragm condenser mic ($150-$220) There are a number of good options in this price range that will do well for both vocals and acoustic gtr: Rode NT1-A, MXL V67i, CAD M179, AT 2020

Decent firewire interface w/at least two mic pres: Onyx Satellite ($199), M-Audio Fast Track Pro ($199), or something similar

As a guitarist, just beginning with recording, you might actually find the Line 6 Toneport UX1 ($129) or UX2 ($199) to be a great option for both a good budget vocal/guitar/bass interface (USB 2.0), and for the great "GearBox" software that comes with it: dozens of amp and cab models, piles of good effects, and a number of nice-sound pres to do different things with the vocals. I'd suggest the UX2 if you go this route, as it comes with phantom power, two lines in, and footpedal jacks. You could start with this, and then, once you get the hang of it and when you feel like it, you could move up to a higher quality of interface, and just use the TonePort or the sounds, as a dongle for the software.

With the interface and the Toneport, this puts you at your $1000. With just the Toneport, you'd be at around $850, and you'd have another $150 to spend. You could use this in whatever way you most need to accessorize. Perhaps a budget keyboard MIDI controller like the M-Audio keystation 49? Or EZDrummer? Or an external hard drive (FW400 or FW800) to record to and stream samples from and/or backup your work. It all depends on what you want to do from that point on.

I hope that helps.

[burningbuilding]

Cool stuff, thank you.

Im looking more into logic, but it seems difficult finding information on it

[Spectacle]

Originally Posted by burningbuilding

Cool stuff, thank you.

Im looking more into logic, but it seems difficult finding information on it

Umm... Did you try Apple's website?

Here, try these:
http://www.apple.com/logicpro/
http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/
http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/comparison.html

Or these:
http://www.logicprohelp.com/
http://www.audioforce.net/component/...,63/Itemid,56/

Or these:
http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=2
http://en.440forums.com/forums/?showforum=58

Good luck.

[donsolo]

ok, I always recommend the 828 over the ultralite.

The Ultralite doesn't have adats, it's worth the $200 to have the expansion available later.

[Ashofapheonix]

You can daisy chain an 8pre and it has ADAT then, if i'm not mistaken.

[burningbuilding]

Originally Posted by Spectacle

Umm... Did you try Apple's website?

Here, try these:
http://www.apple.com/logicpro/
http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/
http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/comparison.html

Or these:
http://www.logicprohelp.com/
http://www.audioforce.net/component/...,63/Itemid,56/

Or these:
http://www.bigbluelounge.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=2
http://en.440forums.com/forums/?showforum=58

Good luck.

Thanks!

Im just trying to find information on the "workflow" and how it accomplishes tasks. I learned a lot about protools and DP just walking into my local borders bookstore. Logic has no demo that I can find and ive yet to find any tutorial videos or similair. Hopefully one of those thinks would be close.

[Spectacle]

Originally Posted by burningbuilding

Thanks!

Im just trying to find information on the "workflow" and how it accomplishes tasks. I learned a lot about protools and DP just walking into my local borders bookstore. Logic has no demo that I can find and ive yet to find any tutorial videos or similair. Hopefully one of those thinks would be close.

Here's what you're looking for exactly:

http://www.apple.com/logicpro/quicktours/

Click on each of the links you find there. For your needs, "What's New in Logic" and especially "Getting Familiar with Logic" will be your best bet.

Also, there are a couple of good books out there that should be in your local Borders or B&N. Sometimes you have to special order them, though. Call ahead, if they don't have it, have them order it. Then you can check it out without being obligated to buy. The Apple Pro Training Series "Logic Pro 7 and Logic Express 7" is good (though detailed and technical), and Orren Merton's books, "Logic 7 Ignite" and "Logic 7 Power" are good, too.

Then, if you get it, once you're into it, the last couple of links I put in my last post, as well as a quick search of this forum itself, should set you well on your way.

[Bodoc]

Presonus firepod--8 nice channels plus Cubase LE included--$499
Blue Sky mediadesk monitors--$499

Add a few mics, cords, material, arrangement and acoustics and you're set.

[Spectacle]

Originally Posted by Bodoc

Presonus firepod--8 nice channels plus Cubase LE included--$499
Blue Sky mediadesk monitors--$499

Add a few mics, cords, material, arrangement and acoustics and you're set.

He only needs 2 channels, and his total budget is $1000. So this won't work at all.

These suggestions will run him up to as much as $1300-1500, and he'll be left lacking in some areas, and with far more than he needs in others. He doesn't need six extra channels to go with a much more stripped-down DAW. He would be much better served with an interface with fewer channels, and a fully-functioning DAW. Also, the choice of mic is key, and likely will take up a chunk of his budget. It isn't an afterthought to be tacked on at the end.

For our original poster -- the basics:
Fully-functioning DAW (you said you like to get creative with the mix)
Good quality monitors
Good Mic
Small but good interface

I already suggested several options in a post above from yesterday. Check them all out, and see what works for you.

[peeder]

As someone who had to change software when Gibson destroyed Opcode, I can tell you that the DAW choice is the most crucial part...the hardware is disposed in a few short years, the DAW comfort level is hard to reacquire.

The OP certainly sounds like a Pro Tools type. Maybe an M-powered system would work best for them (with an M-audio interface).

Anyway I don't think you can do serious work for $1000. $2000 certainly. Remember stands and cables and power etc. will run $250 or so itself. Consider buying used!