Guitar Cab Mic???

[FunkyProduction]

I needed some suggestions on a microphone for an electric guitar cabinet preferably in the $300 range...Dont know if i should swing over to low end gear haha


Funky

[peeder]

The usual suspects:

Heil PR30
Shure SM7, SM57, Beta 57A
Senn MD421, e609/e906
Beyer M88, 201
...Your favorite Ribbon of that price range

All with different sounds. Do you want, pretty, dirty, deep, cutting, rhythm, lead...?

[FunkyProduction]

The kind of sound i would need would have to be alternating rhythm and lead guitar but I would go for a two mic setup regardless...for rhythm i would really like it to sing and pick up whats really coming out of the cab same as the lead...you know? to really capture the sound...any further suggestions for somthing like that? Also i heard that using a ribbon microphone on electric guitar cabs ruins the ribbon...is this true if so, or if not, why or why not? I'd like to understand the technicalities behind it thanks


Funky

[johnmarkpainter]

The CAD Trion 7000 Ribbon is excellent on GTR Cabs. Edgier than your standard Ribbon, Fatter and smoother than your average SM57-type mic.

jmp

[woomanmoomin]

Originally Posted by peeder

Heil PR30
Shure SM7, SM57, Beta 57A
Senn MD421, e609/e906
Beyer M88, 201
...Your favorite Ribbon of that price range

All with different sounds. Do you want, pretty, dirty, deep, cutting, rhythm, lead...?

Which of these moving-coil dynamics would you recommend for which cab sounds? That could be useful to a lot of people if you've played with a few of the mics.

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally Posted by FunkyProduction

in the $300 range...Dont know if i should swing over to low end gear haha


Funky

nah .... an SM57 is a pretty high end environmently used mic on guitar cabinets.

Of course for a Royer ribbon you might be a couple of bucks short.

[gm5k]

not $300, but the Audix i5 works for me im thinking of pairing it w/ a 421 or sm7.

[flail19]

Originally Posted by FunkyProduction

The kind of sound i would need would have to be alternating rhythm and lead guitar but I would go for a two mic setup regardless...for rhythm i would really like it to sing and pick up whats really coming out of the cab same as the lead...you know? to really capture the sound...any further suggestions for somthing like that?

In my experience I have found the SM57 to do just that. It pretty much just captures what's there. Which can be counter to what some may want. My advive? I think having a SM57 and a MD421 can compliment each other. You may need to purchase used to keep it under 3 bills.

[warhead]

Owning an Audix i5, an SM57 and an E/V ND468 is nice on the dynamic side of things. I have one of each and they provide different results.

Audix i5: More extended top but smoother and not as peaky as an SM57, also has a nice open bottom end / low-mid response which makes an SM57 sound smaller and boxy by comparison. Forgiving midrange.

SM57: Provides peaky bite when needed on cabs, doesn't get overly woofy on the low end but isn't really beefy at all either. Bite-i-er mid response.

E/V ND468: Brighter than both overall but delivers a great mid and high end presence and somewhat snappier / more crisp response. Very proximity dependent, allows you to mic really closely without flubby low end. The 468 delivers when I need a tighter track in a busy mix.

If I could only have one of those mics for all cab work it would probably be the E/V.

War

[Fruition2k]

Recently used a 57 and a Beyer M380 on an AC30, the 380's low end
chunk and mids was great....stayed out of the way of the vocal. Even
on a Hiwatt lead 30 and a Fender De'ville, the Beyer won out 70% of the time.
May not be the easiest mic to find, but they're usually cheap...someone once said they're like a poormans RCA 44. They're also figure 8,... strange in a dynamic mic.

Having a great pre is the other half of the battle..

[gillamonster]

Originally Posted by flail19

In my experience I have found the SM57 to do just that. It pretty much just captures what's there. Which can be counter to what some may want. My advive? I think having a SM57 and a MD421 can compliment each other. You may need to purchase used to keep it under 3 bills.

a teeny bit off topic...

just bought an SM7 online from some nice guys for under 300 bones. they have lots of mics for way way under the prices you'd find at places like GC and Musician's Friend.

http://www.northernsound.net/

they work on a quote system though, so don't take my price as gospel. but i won't hurt to email 'em. also, fast shipment. and no, i don't work there and have zero affiliation minus this one purchase.

good luck

[peeder]

Originally Posted by woomanmoomin

Which of these moving-coil dynamics would you recommend for which cab sounds? That could be useful to a lot of people if you've played with a few of the mics.

Well I would like to do a shootout in a few weeks when I have everything set-up. Quick meta-question: what's the best way to post shootout audio files? I see the ability to post attachments below the posting form. Will gearslutz host my shootout? Should I post WAV or MP3?

From memory of the mics I have on hand here, I can put them in this order of brightness/presence, bright to dark...

Heil PR30 (RE20 on steroids? Just got it, hafta test...)
Beta57 A (great articulation/definition on top of the classic 57 sound...more upper mids)
SM57 (A bit distant in the mids, but bright enough and plenty of character, what you're used to)
M88 (Phat and rich, gorgeous, thick-ass, not very much definition though)
SM7 (Big, bassy, smooth, mostly used for bass cabs...try on back of cab for blend, pull off windscreen)
Nady RSM-2 (hand selected, gold screen, insulation removed) (Not much top but great, rich, clear body)

(Yes, it's embarassing I don't have a 421 or a 121... tutt )

Generally, you want brighter mics for lead parts and cleans, and darker mics for rhythm and dirt. But that's not always the case. It may also make it more interesting to layer different mics on different amps and diff cabs. They won't overlap as much, allowing a pleasant blend.

I currently use the Peavey/AMR VMP 2 preamp for the dynamics (and as a DI) and the AEA TRP for the ribbon. The Peavey is out of production...maybe the Hamptone Tube would substitute for it. You need good preamps to make these inexpensive mics sound great.

The Royer 121 is the new standard mic, the 57 and 421 are the old standards, and some people track all three and blend to taste. Beyer's ribbons are also popular. One listen to the 121 and you'll say, "Ah, THIS is the mic for guitar cabs!" Priced accordingly. You won't blow ribbons so easily...just keep a bit of distance from the edge of the cone, and angle a bit off-axis if you want to be sure. Royer offers one free re-ribbon with each mic and Nady will re-ribbon for $50. Store ribbon mics upright so the ribbon doesn't stretch from sagging.

Placement of mics on guitar cabs is v.v. important. Closer to the dome will be brighter, closer to the rim of the cone will be bassier. Pick out the best driver in a multi-way cab by ear, and experiment with placement. Millimeters and degrees matter.

[peeder]

This got me wondering so I did a quick shootout of the mics I listed directly above...i'm not going to post it because it's pitifully incompetent both in guitar work and recording! But it gave me enough of an idea...

And the overall winner was...[drumroll please]

The SM57.

There's a reason it's a legend!

That said, the Heil, while lacking bottom, complimented the Nady ribbon pretty well...I will want to try blending those. The Heil had the least intrinsic compression so it needed compression badly and would take well to it. The M88 (mine is a silver "Classic Edition") had the most compressed sound. The Heil reminded me of 60's guitar tone...Hendrix/Page/Beatles. I think it would be easy to mix with it if that type of sound is the target...especially if it was printed to tape or through lots of old-school analog processing.

They were all good in their way, all could be used, even in the same song. But the 57 is king on cabs out of that bunch. I really didn't want to believe that.

[RealToReel]

I second the Audix i5...I had the pleasure of taking a tour of their main distribution warehouse and testing facility in Wilsonville, Oregon, another story though, they are great mics very much like the sm57, but it has its own tonal qualities, a little more grit, or dirt you would say, but it is still very clear all around as well, matched with a 421, and 2 neumann Tlm103's, i get a HUUUuuuuGGGGeeee sound out of metal/distorted guitars. And always check for phase relation with that many mics on one cab...

[poncival]

$300 ish?

Sennheiser 421 "MK 1"

Seems to sound better on a transformer mic input but is definitely my "desert island" guitar mic

[Protools Guy]

+1 for the 421!

[captawesm]

Ha swing over to what low end? The sm57 and audix i5 are two great mics on guitar cabs and at under $100 dollars they are inexpensive but definiteley not a low end solution. The only other choice I can recommend is the 421, I have barely any experience with them but from some samples I've heard it sounds pretty great teamed up with a 57 or i5.

Jordan

[FunkyProduction]

I definitely agree on the i5 i think they beat out the 57 time after time and it was the first mic i bought. So im really looking for the other half for a dual mic combination. Does anybody have samples of the 421? or possibly the Beyer M30? Samples are always helpful.

[walth]

Shure SM57
Sennheiser 421
Neumann U47FET
Neumann U67

Royer and Beyerdynamic ribbon mics are also great for a different sound.
You can also try the Shure SM7, Sennheiser MD441, Electro-Voice RE-20 and so on.

[peeder]

After a few further tests I ended up sending back the Heil PR30. While it has a nice bright clear top to it, it's not nearly as sexy as the SM57, and I have other options for that top if I want it. That thin vintage tone isn't so much what I want.

Sad because I'm not going to try the Heil PR40 now...I was told here and on their website to go with the PR30 for cabs, but maybe the PR40 was actually the right choice as it's supposed to have more low end.

[warhead]

Not a knock, but I wouldn't look to any of the Heil line for strong low end response.

War

[captawesm]

Originally Posted by FunkyProduction

Does anybody have samples of the 421? or possibly the Beyer M30? Samples are always helpful.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/e...light=audix+i5

On that thread there are samples of 57, i5, and the 421

[popmann]

In the range...if I had to have a single mic to handle all Egtr cab sounds...421. Without a doubt. The 121 is amazing, but obviously not $300 bucks.

That said, I've not used a lot of the Beta series and never set ears on an Audix, so...YMMV.

[heybulldog]

shure 57's are great.
senn 421's are fantastic as well.
royer 121's are good too.
senn e609's are great.

I see no reason for a 121, seriously they sound fantastic. But with some good placement and good preamps and good conversion I could make the senn 609 silver almost mimic and duplicate what the 121 was doing. I was 99% of the way there with just the 609 silver, I had no desire at that point to plop 1200 on a 121.

[FunkyProduction]

Anybody have any other samples that arent death metal???

[studio1117]

AKG D224e, D24
Neumann U-87
Sennheiser 421, Md409
Audix D-2
Beyer 201

[Sounds Great]

Didn't like an SM57 or Senn 421 there, but I like condensers for guitar cab. Try an AT 4050 if you can swing a few more bucks.

[minus-sounds.com]

Try a SM57 and a 421 around. You will be surprised of how many sound you could get. The SM57 is diirty (in a good way) and the 421 more of a full body type of sound. evilbay them both and you may have same change in the end for an Behringer ECM8000 omni for some room sounds and even more colors.

[mobaudio]

Shures 55SH (the Elvis Mic).

It sounds like the amp. I swear.


I

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by warhead

Not a knock, but I wouldn't look to any of the Heil line for strong low end response.

War

I haven't tried any of them, but don't they market the PR40 as being a great kick mic because it has a flatter frequency response down much lower than other dynamics (RE20, SM7, etc.)?