Low-end but decent mic pre?

[Spectacle]

I'm looking for warmth here. Primarily for use with male vocals & acoustic guitar. I already have great, crystal-clear, uncolored solid-state pres with my Alesis iO/26.

The budget is under $150. It's down to this list:

Studio Projects VTB-1 Tube Blend ($120)
ART Tube PAC ($120)
ART Tube MP Project Series ($65)
PreSonus TUBEPre ($99 or $129 bundled w/an MXL 990 mic)
Behringer T1953 Tube Ultragain (can get refurb w/full warranty, $99[lists at $459])

Any ideas, personal experience, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

[earldrum]

I would look at a used Aphex 107. They go for about $100 on ebay and there are two channels and they sound really nice for the money.

Earl

[tINY]

Think used - like a Bogen or a Shure pulled out of an Elks club durring a remodel....




-tINY

[scrubs]

Nothing in that pricerange is going to give you "warmth." Starved-plate tube designs can add some "grit" or "mud" in the form of distortion, but that's it. Of those you've listed, I'd go with the Studio Projects VTB1. It's a little colored and has plenty of nice features (variable impedance, insert jack, decent DI), plus you can run it with the toob blend, or completely solid-state. The cheapest full-voltage tube pre is the Electroharmonix 12AY7, and next up is the Groove Tubes Brick.

[kenm]

I've gotten good tones out of an ART Tube MP where I replaced the stock tube with a Tungsol 12ax7. I use it a lot as a DI for my acoustic at live shows. My friends can't believe it isn't mic'd.

Ken

[moon_unit]

How about "none of the above?"

Get one of those Bellari things and have it modded (replace the output opamps with something decent).

[billgennaro]

i've gotta say that the art tube mp has always impressed the sh#$t out of me for the price (and i have some high end mic pres). just don't try to sum alot of tracks recorded with an mp. that's when the mud will start to show up. but for a couple of the right sources you can get some good results.

[Spectacle]

Thanks for all your help so far, everyone. Keep it coming!

Originally Posted by moon_unit

Get one of those Bellari things and have it modded (replace the output opamps with something decent).

Are you referring to their $180 rack channel strip? Or their $99 simple mic pre unit?

[chandlersonic]

I'd wait a little, get some extra money and get something decent. As far as cheap tube prs go, the only one I've heard that seemed useable is the Spl goldmike, the first version which usually goes for about 300€ ( $400 ) used over here in Europe, I don't know if they're easy to find in the States but you do see quite a few around here.

This is probably not the answer you wanted but I think you'll be very disappointed with any of the pres you've mentioned, I doubt any of them'll give you warmth...

Cheap tube equipment most of the time sounds like a caricature of the tube sound...

[John Suitcase]

I think if you're looking for warmth, maybe you should be looking at other mics.

What are you using now?

[Bosskitty]

Whats warmth?
i have a vtb1 & it cool cos it can give two very different sounds....both can be muddy!!that doesnt mean its a bad thing.ive had some good results with it on gits & some screamy vox. id prefer it over my 002 for functionality, but its bang on par with the pre's of the 002 & the mackie vlz stuff IMO.
the rest of yer list i cant comment.
For acoustic id go for the rane msb1.nice top end, feck all booom...my choice.

[Spectacle]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

I think if you're looking for warmth, maybe you should be looking at other mics.

What are you using now?

Yes, this was something I was thinking about as well. For my vocals and acoustic guitar I usually use a Rode NT1-A that I like very much. But, to give myself some tonal options, I have been thinking about springing mic-wise for either the MXL V67G (only $99, but warm and recommended by Warren on here), or perhaps one of the best lower-priced tube mics (like a CAD Trion 8000, MXL V69ME, or a Studio Projects TB1).

Do you think that this would be a better way to go than the cheap tube-pre? And which of these mics would you suggest? Here they are side-by-side:

MXL V67G ($99)
MXL V69 ME ($299)
CAD Trion 8000 ($299-$399)
Studio Projects TB1 ($299)
Avantone CV-12 ($399)

Not dripping in money here, so if the V67G is worth spending money on, and a better option than the budget tube pres, that would be great. But if one of these tube mics (or something comparable in price) is just so fantastic sounding on baritone-tenor rock vocals and an acoustic (I have a high-end Taylor), but different from my NT1-A, please let me know. I appreciate all the feedback you can give.

[Blue Bongo]

I've been using the ART Dual Channel Tube preamp with an Oktava MK-319 and a Rode NT1-A. So far it works like a charm. I'll upgrade the tubes one of these days just because of the recommedations made on Gearslutz. Actually, I'll probably get the Okatva modified too.
Blue Bongo

[John Suitcase]

Well, if you want something that's a big departure, and very warm, check out the cascade ribbon mics:


Ribbon Microphones Cascade FAT HEAD

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by Spectacle

Are you referring to their $180 rack channel strip? Or their $99 simple mic pre unit?

The desktop model is starved plate I believe, like all the other little ones. Their rack units are full voltage, but noisey, thats why it should be modded.

IMO, stay with a VTB-1, or go way over the 500 dollar mark. There is a murky price area that isnt worth it. If you stay in the cheaper guys, then the mic becomes more important.

[moon_unit]

Why are people recommending the VTB1?

It's just another starved-plate piece of crap. And the tube mp? Holy Christ, you gotta' be kidding me.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

Why are people recommending the VTB1?

It's just another starved-plate piece of crap. And the tube mp? Holy Christ, you gotta' be kidding me.

Because you can get a decent sound out of it??

Just because they (like everyone else) prey on people about the "tube" idea, doesnt mean the sound will suck no matter what. THAT is also a bad misnomer. They are simple solid state pres that work good for a hundred bucks man, get over your purism!!

I still have the VTB-1 out of the other pres I have, I think its worth keeping rather than selling it, and it has a unique feature set for a cheap little guy.

VTB-1 wins

Moon wanes.......

[JoeSixpack]

Is that Behringer pre the same as the MIC 2200, but with fake tube shit? You may wanna go there.

I have 2 dual MPs. You can hear the vocal any time if you google JoeSixpack. Not evil.

Vocals are subjective. not many pres love all voices. Few wil actually. What is the vocal you are trying to capture?

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by moon_unit

And the tube mp? Holy Christ, you gotta' be kidding me.

hey, the mp is not a stellar peice of gear but you can get some use out of it. in a pinch i've used it when i've got my other pres on something else and have always been surprised at how usable the results were. again, don't try and use it for everything but for a couple of bucks, wtf do you want? just tryin' to help a dude with no budget.

[Unclenny]

I used Tube Pre and VTB-1 for a long time......liked the VTB-1 a little better for reasons mentioned in earlier comments.
For my last project I stepped up and spent $1K (Trident 4T)......a good pre makes a big difference whether it has valves or not. The tube warmth thing with the starved plate design is an illusion at best.

[Unclenny]

Originally Posted by Fman

But what about shelling out a few more dimes and getting a Bluetube Dual Path pre; then you can gain the hell out of one of the channels and run the same signal into the other one if you want another stage of coloration...but it's really just a creative method of distortion no matter how you look at it.

Damn! Good idea.
I also have the Bluetube DP......I use it for stereo, full width tracks like pads, piano and canned drums.
That application could really fill in an acoustic guit track....or even the keys.

[Spectacle]

Thanks for the ideas so far. Any other thoughts on low-cost but decent-sounding mic pres to add warmth? I'm likely going to go for a decent tube mic, but I'll certainly consider throwing down some cash at some point just to see if I can add to my tonal palette here.

[liquidorange]

gotta say i liked my tube mp over the vtb-1 in the warmth department but there cheap get both. maybe get up like 250$ for a used m audio tampa its kinda cool too.

[Jonboy79]

Of all the low end pres I've ever tried, and it has been a large amount, the joe meek 3Q just seemed to stand out compared to everything else, it's very full sounding. I sold mine when I got some higher end pres but I wish I hadn't.

[tINY]

I still say you should find a used M67 from shure in some old church closet or Foreign legion hall.

All the old Shure mic mixers for that stuff had nice, warm sounding transformers in them.




-tINY

[darjama]

I really like the electro harmonix 12ay7, they have a little warmth, but more importantly they have depth. And the Art TubeMP I expected to totally suck, but actually liked. It felt like it rolls some of the low end frequencies off, but leaves the top end feeling warmer.

[John Suitcase]

As far as low-end warmth in mic pre's, I agree that you should be looking at vintage gear, especially some of the stuff that's a bit out of vogue. You might need to break out the soldering iron, as a lot of the old stuff doesn't have XLR connectors, but that's an easy fix.

Most of the stuff like the bluetube and the tubemp are going to be disappointing, I fear. I've owned both, (including both versions of the bluetube) and I think they all kind of sucked. Yes, they had uses, but their version of warm was more like crackly, and their clean was noisy.

If you can find a used Brick, that's is a great smooth preamp/DI, but if that's out of your range, look for something like an old shure, or an old Altec.


I just did a quick search on eBay for 'mic mixer' and another for 'mic preamp' and found at least 5 items that would be cool, in your price range, all of which would be better investments than a tube MP, etc.

If you know even a little about electronics, you can do a lot with this vintage gear, channel strips, old mixers, etc.

[Sounds Great]

What about a Symetrix SX202? There is one for sale on Ebay.

EBAY

[soundawg]

I'm goin with ART PRO MPA - so whatever to the gear snobs - I like it, and I've heard it next to some 'accepted' goodies.


Soundawg

[John Suitcase]

Originally Posted by soundawg

I'm goin with ART PRO MPA - so whatever to the gear snobs - I like it, and I've heard it next to some 'accepted' goodies.


Soundawg

The Pro MPA has a pretty good rep, a lot better than the Tube MP.

Have fun!