Snare Question

[theBackwardsman]

Im trying to get that same kind of snare in my mixes, but dont you think these bands use triggers?
snares are so damn dynamic and its really hard to get this tight sound with just a compressor, and without totally killing it with limiters

anyway one trick ive found usable is to use some kid of channelstrip, like waves ssl, that includes compressor, gate and expander, that way you can get the punch with the gate and compressor but still expand it to make in more alive. But it will still be dynamic as hell thou

[bassman3800]

I just recently started using Drumagog, but i was using it to add a sample, more for a reverb track, than a regular snare track.... I started to use it for the main snare track, but I work with some very dynamic bands....soft jazz to full on metal in the same song,

when i use a sample, it just doesn't come out right...

and I feel you on the whole limiter thing... I get the sound, but the snare has no body when i do it like that....

I"m gonna keep trying stuff Until somebody slapps me in the face

[Todd24]

Im having great luck using Digitalfishphones Dominion to give a ton of punch to snare and kick. You can dial in just the right amount of transient. If your compressing, make sure the attack is long enough to allow it to punch through.

That said, the one song I listend to, reaks of snare sample. Not many drummers can hit the snare in the middle with the same force everytime.

[zeljkom]

Steven Slate's drums are the way to go IMHO.

[bassman3800]

Those Slate drums sound like what i'm looking for...

[Ironklad Audio]

try blending a sample with the original snare track - eq/comp/whatever to taste

[SK1]

Try parallel compression too.

You'll like it.

[dpianomn]

try multing the snare track, compress/limit the snot out of it and even try some radical EQ to acheive the desired sound. then automate the mult depending on what each section of the song needs.

[peeder]

The drums sound phony...very closed, 70's type sound. It's done with a combination of aggressive gating, compression/limiting (maybe more than one stage) and probably an ambience program that gives it a little "bloom" (i.e. increase in loudness and width after the initial impulse). They also sound varispeeded up, which might be done on the whole track.

Although probably all of this has been done on samples that are re-used. Generally the band's drummer doesn't actually play the album tracks to save money, they are played on V-drums by a Berklee grad and fixed up as MIDI. The band's drummer is often not told of this however and will be crushed so don't let them know.

Think of it the same way as you think of the overdrive on the amps...it's fried to a cwisp, totally false and cheap. But this is often representative, and this music is intended to be representative.

[bassman3800]

seems like parallell compression gives me a funny Phase sound... I can't get around it... any suggestions??

[James HE]

Originally Posted by bassman3800

seems like parallell compression gives me a funny Phase sound... I can't get around it... any suggestions??

Some plugins have issues with latency, this may or may not be causing your phase issue depending on how you have things bussed. Try putting the same exact plug on the dry buss, but in bypass or with no compression dialed in.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by zeljkom

Steven Slate's drums are the way to go IMHO.

Seems to be the general concensous lately. However, how the hell is anyone supposed to hone their recording skills by replacing their drums anytime they don't like what goes to disk?

[bassman3800]

Thats why i only use a sample in conjunction with the snare so that my drums still sound real... I love my kick sound.. Props to My Beta 91 in the drum..d112 in the hole.... and AT3035 in the tube in front of the kick

[zeljkom]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Seems to be the general concensous lately. However, how the hell is anyone supposed to hone their recording skills by replacing their drums anytime they don't like what goes to disk?

Hey, whatever works! Maybe some different mic (i5), snare in the first place?

[zeljkom]

Or even better. Ask Steven Slate himself.

[Todd24]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Seems to be the general concensous lately. However, how the hell is anyone supposed to hone their recording skills by replacing their drums anytime they don't like what goes to disk?

I think it has more to do with how the drummer plays than how its recorded. You can dial in a great snare sound and then have the drummer screw it all up.

I like the idea of using the best hit form the track as a sample to blend in with the live drum.

[SK1]

Originally Posted by bassman3800

seems like parallell compression gives me a funny Phase sound... I can't get around it... any suggestions??

Hopefully you have delay compensation someplace in your daw.

I'm mixing otb so it's a non issue.

good luck !

[Todd24]

Originally Posted by SK1

I'm mixing otb so it's a non issue.

Depends on your gear, no? Dont some outboard comps add enough latency to cause phaseing?

If so it would be harder to fix than ITB.

[xmostynx]

hey guys i get a good tight snare sound by using some old heads as dead ringers.

check it out- buy/cut an old snare head about 1 inch around the edge so you have a 1 inch no center head--

put that on the drumhead- maybe 2 or 3 depends on how much you want to damp it up.. then put a nice verb on there maybe 1.6 sec and mess around with lite compression 1.5:1 2:1 only like 1-2 dB to tame it- and it will sound sweet.


it might sound 80s alone but mix it in with a rock band and it will sit very nice-

you might think it sucks! i like it tho

[SK1]

Originally Posted by Todd24

Depends on your gear, no? Dont some outboard comps add enough latency to cause phaseing?

If so it would be harder to fix than ITB.

I don't hear it.

Latency is from the computer, plugs or converters.

[davew]

i found (somewhere here) a new way to mic my snare that i'm very happy with. here's a pic:

http://ironpoet.com/snaremic.jpg

i keep the end of the sm57 about 1" above, and 2" past the rim towards the center. completely parallel with the head.

[Bang]

Thanks for the referrals guys...

Anyway, bassman, what would make things easier would be if you can post a sample of your mix where you are having trouble with the snare. That way members here can analyze it.

Drums are hard dude. I would recommend renting about 4 different snares and get a bunch of mics and bribe your nearest drummer with some drugs and booze and experiment. Get to know tunings, heads, hitting styles, what effect eq has on each mic, micing positions that work for you, etc. You have the objective in your mind, you just need to know how to get it there. Also, I don't know where it is written that tons of compression make a snare sound better because I found it does the opposite. Having said that, some good eq is your friend, as is a nice room, you'll even hear a tiny bit of a nice room on the close mic. I'll start you out with that close mic.. point it across the snare, with the capsule one to two inches above the rim, the front of the mic lined up with the rim. Whoever started the BS about angling the snare mic down towards the head is the fella you can thank for all the boxy snare sounds out there, since that angle produces that BONK that seems almost impossible to eq out sometimes.

As for samples, they are another tool that can help you get what you want. Its pretty obvious they are used in a large percentage of recordings. Sometimes the original snare simply isn't going to be what you want, but may have a certain essence that you like, augmenting with a fatty sample might do the trick.

[ThrillHo]

Also, if you have just one snare mic, I suggest micing the shell (possibly near the vent hole). This technique produces almost zero "bonking". I've gotten a pretty bonky sound even my pointing the batter mic directly across the head.

[bassman3800]

Thanks for all the input guys.... I'm gonna Keep experimenting...

[Blindside]

It's all about the drum and tuning the drum.

A nice deep snare tuned "fat" will have a nice natural reverb.

[Brad McGowan]

It's all about the drummer. Some guys know how to hit, other guys don't. Some guys need tons of compression, some guys don't. Using samples is one way to partially eliminate the drummer from the equation.

Brad

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Todd24

Depends on your gear, no? Dont some outboard comps add enough latency to cause phaseing?

If so it would be harder to fix than ITB.

If you run the track through same compressor-no problem. I tend to run all drum tracks through the same compressor line to prevent this.

I have recently been running original snare out through outboard eq, then outboard compressor x3. First snare track-virtually no compression-ie slow attack-maybe 1db.

Second snare track out-eq cut high hats down tad more, attack medium-bout 6db compression.

Third track-smidgen more eq cut to high hats, fast attack, and bout 10 to 12 db compression.

Blend all 3 in box to taste. No latency at all-run through same analog chain.

If you get the eq setting right and have good reverb you get a real snap with natural tail. Just mixed a "ballad" which has to have the most vicious snare crack I have heard-sounds like 222 going feral at a pigshoot at Nundal.

I love it- the band has not heard it yet but. Somehow the vicious snare puts the over the top female diva in her place.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ

[bassman3800]

I love u guys....

[CB_Photo]

Originally Posted by Bang

Whoever started the BS about angling the snare mic down towards the head is the fella you can thank for all the boxy snare sounds out there, since that angle produces that BONK that seems almost impossible to eq out sometimes.

I think I found the culprit. It's posted here and refers to an article in "In The House", courtesy of Audix Corp. This simple, mistaken way of mic'ing a snare sent me down a very frustrating path, resulting in any of my snares sounding like a cardboard box being slapped by a piece of plastic.

Thankfully, you Gearslutz and this post by Steve Slate helped me get a great snare sound more than any other info I've read. Thanks Steve!