003 is out!!!!

[sdelsolray]

What a bunch of whinners.

If Digidesign had released this product and called it the "Digi002 Plus", most (all?) of the above complaints would not be made.

[bertofski]

i just bought a 002r 3 days ago, had no idea a 003 was coming out. personally i prefer the look of the 002r over the 003r.

[moonpi]

Originally Posted by Studiocat

Moonpi, you're right.

Yes, it's bad enough that we can correct time and pitch. This allowance has produced some of the most uninteresting, uninspired music ever known to man.

The Beatles created beautiful art regardless of their technological restrictions. They improvised methods. They played together. They recorded drums in mono.
Restrict your art, and it too, will improve.

Start by using less microphones!

Adam

Personally, I don't think that having the tools is the problem, it's what WE do with them that is. The mentality that has been cultivated as a result of the mega onslaught of marketing is every bit as damaging to the quality of the music as a propensity to psyche yourself into using something just because you have it.

I forget who said it or where I read it once, but some extremely-wise sage of a musician said, "It's not about what you play. It's about what you DON'T play." Do you think that modern crop of producers and engineers could take something valuable from this?

There is nothing quite like starting at the source of what you are recording and not having to try to polish a turd for the rest of the album.

My motto is this, "Don't try to polish a turd. It never gets the shine you're after and you just get shit on your towel."

Plus I think it annoys the pig, too.

[Studiocat]

hahahaha

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by Jamoson

You know, I was thinking, I wonder if this has something to do with DIGI and Focusrite parting ways and DIGI not having Pre-amps or not being able to use them. So they go with a different pre and call it new. Any thoughts or confirmation on that? I love my 002R and will not upgrade and I love Protools but as far as I'm concerned MBox2, MBox Pro, and 003 have all been jokes. I can't believe nobody in a meeting said " I think they are all going to laugh at us"

For those that don't know--

The "partnering" of Digi and Focusrite was based on a licensing agreement allowing Digi to use the Focusrite name...so those "Focusrite" preamps are really just BASED on Focusrite designs but entirely manufactured by Digi.

Even if you feel that this is a load of crap...do you REALLY think the preamps on ANY of the gear available today through Digi, M-Audio, Presonus, Tascam, or any of it are actually great preamps? I don't, and won't track through any of them no matter who's name is on them.

Aside from that, all the posts flaming Digi for the 003 seem like we were waiting for the heavens to part and a choir to sing down on the new product. With expectations like that...of course we're disappointed. There's no such thing as a perfect product.

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by DISCERN

Well its pretty plain to see that Digidesign's intentions behind releasing the 003 are more to do with hooking in new customers than providing existing customers with an alternative.

Customers always have an alternative. It's someone else's product.

Or HD.

Now, from a humble standpoint--and saying this, please understand that this is a serious question--

Is there another product that offers the same features as the 003 (software aside, even)?

All I can come up with is the Fireface 800 for i/o comparability. What else is there?

---just saw a cut sheet on the Onyx 1200f
i've used the 400f, and it sounds FANTASTIC. The 1200f might just be the answer to my question.

[numrologst]

obviously not a shocker... Had a digi001 and a digi III or something like that...a while back... Then when i made the step up i think it was 2003 and then we got an hd3.

Supposedly being an hd customer... I thought I'd get treated differently... I was wrong... Pretty dissappointed with them, pretty upset... I finally got rid of the the hd system and went to apogee/lynx/nuendo/pc... And I couldn't be happier.

I don't see what the big thing is about pro tools anymore... It was cool in 2000 when I wanted to play with the big boys... Then when i finally moved away from le and got hd i thought it was even cooler... But now i wonder what I was thinking.

The only thing i can't do now that i could do on hd was to use hd plugs... Big deal... Now if i was doing post work... I probably would have stuck out the digi bs with hd... But for music production? Get real... Who really needs an hd3?

And what's the big deal about the le system? Most people mod their 002's... And still don't like the sounds... Then everyone bitches about 32 track count. Then you gotta pay more for the 48 track pack or whatver.

No offense to anyone... But what gives??? Why do you like protools and digi hardware so much???

A lynx aurora plus cubase is way cooler in my opinion... Or apogee 16x's and and cubase or nuendo...

I just don't get what the draw is... Marketing?? or what???

When i switched over from protools... I did have a hard time grasping how i was gonna do sessions fluently in nuendo... It took me about 3 weeks to get used to neundo...

But let me tell you... There is nothing i miss about pro tools... Everything i could do in protools i can do in nuendo faster... I don;t know if they have made a tons of chanes since 6.9... But at that point nuendo seemed way easier... I think i've had to crossfade in nunedo maybe once... In protools, every punch required a crossfade... Not so in nuendo... Also nuendo lanes beat the shit out of protools playlist tracks etc.

Nuendo editing is every bit as fast and intuitive as protools...

So seriously what is the draw?

I haven't done the whole commercial studio thing in a while... since i have been working solely on my new album for the past year... But from time to time i book sessions in my studio when i need to... And I've never been asked if i have protools..> And alot of artists are pretty thrilled that i am using something other than pt.

I do have protools m-powered... I've never used it... I have it on hand in case i ever do get a session from pt that i need to reference... But since i don't use plugs or daw automation, it's never been an issue... I historically have always 100% of the time received sessions either on 2" or digital bwf...

Now if i was a post house... I might deal with digi and keep the hd system around

But i urge you all to try a new daw... once you get out of your protools comfort zone, you will be thrilled

[dasmetre]

Originally Posted by numrologst

But for music production? Get real... Who really needs an hd3?

No offense to anyone... But what gives??? Why do you like protools and digi hardware so much???

A lynx aurora plus cubase is way cooler in my opinion... Or apogee 16x's and and cubase or nuendo...

Nuendo editing is every bit as fast and intuitive as protools...

So seriously what is the draw?


But i urge you all to try a new daw... once you get out of your protools comfort zone, you will be thrilled

The people who really need HD are commercial houses running huge sessions (like pop records that run 18 or 19 lead vocal tracks, in addiiton to harmonies and instrumentation) and can't run them natively. Anyone who wants to mix in the analog realm and still use pro tools needs the I/O that LE does not offer.

It's not that I like digi hardware so much, it's more that EVERYONE I work with is a certified pro tools operator, thereby making pro tools the DAW that I don't need any tech support for. EVER.

Considering the cost of an AD16x and DA16x (and the necessary firewire cards needed for comupter interface), it would be a bit ridiculous to compare a 002 (or 003) system to the Apogee system. Of course the apogee is better.

And last I checked, Nuendo streets at $2k...which is a completely prohibitive price for the PTLE market.

I did try another DAW...DP 5. Using an Onyx 400f with DP was a great combination...when it worked. PT is designed to be rock solid--the two crashes I have had with PT were my own fault--(opening multiple instances of BFD will kill just about anything). DP crashed on a daily basis. The 400f sounded AMAZING compared to all the digi hardware I have heard...but I like Pro Tools.

And the beautiful part of this whole thing is this--we all get our own choice in the matter.

[Duardo]

You know, I was thinking, I wonder if this has something to do with DIGI and Focusrite parting ways and DIGI not having Pre-amps or not being able to use them. So they go with a different pre and call it new. Any thoughts or confirmation on that?

Digi did not use Focusrite's preamps in the Digi002R either. Yes, they're very upfront that the preamps (and converters) are different and improved. I have one of their "Pre" preamps, which is a very nice transparent preamp. If the preamps in the 003 sound close to those it will be a good thing. They don't have the personality of, say, a Neve or an API, but in a box like this you typically don't want a preamp with too much color or personality...you want a clean, neutral preamp that will do a fine job of amplifying whatever you feed it with without adding much of its own sonic signature to it.

The "partnering" of Digi and Focusrite was based on a licensing agreement allowing Digi to use the Focusrite name...so those "Focusrite" preamps are really just BASED on Focusrite designs but entirely manufactured by Digi.

Of course Digidesign manufactured them, but they were designed by Focusrite.

The only thing i can't do now that i could do on hd was to use hd plugs... Big deal... Now if i was doing post work... I probably would have stuck out the digi bs with hd... But for music production? Get real... Who really needs an hd3?

I do...when I track my five-piece band I need to be able to have separate headphone mixes as like to have a lot of plugins up as well, with no latency issues...even if I'm just tracking drums an HD system is the only system I've come across that can do that without relying on outboard gear, etc. I've heard good things about the Symphony system (and I use Apogee converters already, so switching over wouldn't be a huge deal) but am still not sure how it would handle tracking like that...

-Duardo

[Nahmeanz]

how does this compare to the projectmix?

[moonpi]

Originally Posted by numrologst

obviously not a shocker... Had a digi001 and a digi III or something like that...a while back... Then when i made the step up i think it was 2003 and then we got an hd3.

Supposedly being an hd customer... I thought I'd get treated differently... I was wrong... Pretty dissappointed with them, pretty upset... I finally got rid of the the hd system and went to apogee/lynx/nuendo/pc... And I couldn't be happier.

I don't see what the big thing is about pro tools anymore... It was cool in 2000 when I wanted to play with the big boys... Then when i finally moved away from le and got hd i thought it was even cooler... But now i wonder what I was thinking.

The only thing i can't do now that i could do on hd was to use hd plugs... Big deal... Now if i was doing post work... I probably would have stuck out the digi bs with hd... But for music production? Get real... Who really needs an hd3?

And what's the big deal about the le system? Most people mod their 002's... And still don't like the sounds... Then everyone bitches about 32 track count. Then you gotta pay more for the 48 track pack or whatver.

No offense to anyone... But what gives??? Why do you like protools and digi hardware so much???

A lynx aurora plus cubase is way cooler in my opinion... Or apogee 16x's and and cubase or nuendo...

I just don't get what the draw is... Marketing?? or what???

When i switched over from protools... I did have a hard time grasping how i was gonna do sessions fluently in nuendo... It took me about 3 weeks to get used to neundo...

But let me tell you... There is nothing i miss about pro tools... Everything i could do in protools i can do in nuendo faster... I don;t know if they have made a tons of chanes since 6.9... But at that point nuendo seemed way easier... I think i've had to crossfade in nunedo maybe once... In protools, every punch required a crossfade... Not so in nuendo... Also nuendo lanes beat the shit out of protools playlist tracks etc.

Nuendo editing is every bit as fast and intuitive as protools...

So seriously what is the draw?

I haven't done the whole commercial studio thing in a while... since i have been working solely on my new album for the past year... But from time to time i book sessions in my studio when i need to... And I've never been asked if i have protools..> And alot of artists are pretty thrilled that i am using something other than pt.

I do have protools m-powered... I've never used it... I have it on hand in case i ever do get a session from pt that i need to reference... But since i don't use plugs or daw automation, it's never been an issue... I historically have always 100% of the time received sessions either on 2" or digital bwf...

Now if i was a post house... I might deal with digi and keep the hd system around

But i urge you all to try a new daw... once you get out of your protools comfort zone, you will be thrilled

While I am still a PTLE Digi002r user, I think you are on the right track here. I will say that the only thing that has really kept me in Digi's clutches is that I bought a mess of McDSP plugs that are very flexible and make life in ProTools much more enjoyable. Aside from that, the only thing I like is the flexibility of the AUX tracks.

Still, as soon as a budget comes available for me, I think that I'm going to go the Nuendo route. I have Nuendo 2.2 right now, but it won't work with Digi's MME setup and XP Service Pack 2 (after a clean install after the SP2 update). The trouble is staying compatible with all I have done to this point. It's quite a bit of work to swap systems and keep your sessions compatible. Something I am NOT looking forward to...

[Marmaduke]

Originally Posted by Nahmeanz

how does this compare to the projectmix?

They are both firewire, 18 inputs.
PM has 8 pre's compared to 4 on the 003 factory.
PM has only 4 analog outputs compared to 8 on the 003.
Both have wordclock i/o and 2 headphone outs
003 factory has 8 faders, PM has 9 (8 plus a master)
Both PM and 003 factory can act as controllers for any software (002 was only ProTools)
Obviously with the PM you have to buy the M-Powered software seperately, whereas 003 comes with the software like all the LE range (and loads extra now that ignition pack 2 pro is out)
Arguably the 003 factory offers a better control surface than the PM... ie more buttons to play with
The tech specs of the pres on the 003 look better than the PM

Also the monitoring section on the PM only controls the software, so you're reducing the level before d/a conversion, not attenuating a full level signal like the analog monitoring section on the 003.

Thats about all I can think of...

[DirtyMan]

Originally Posted by Marmaduke

They are both firewire, 18 inputs.
PM has 8 pre's compared to 4 on the 003 factory.
PM has only 4 analog outputs compared to 8 on the 003.
Both have wordclock i/o and 2 headphone outs
003 factory has 8 faders, PM has 9 (8 plus a master)
Both PM and 003 factory can act as controllers for any software (002 was only ProTools)
Obviously with the PM you have to buy the M-Powered software seperately, whereas 003 comes with the software like all the LE range (and loads extra now that ignition pack 2 pro is out)
Arguably the 003 factory offers a better control surface than the PM... ie more buttons to play with
The tech specs of the pres on the 003 look better than the PM

Also the monitoring section on the PM only controls the software, so you're reducing the level before d/a conversion, not attenuating a full level signal like the analog monitoring section on the 003.

Thats about all I can think of...

yet to be seen how digi cripples the midi mode on 003 ... the p/mix does quite well in control surface department

[numrologst]

as long as you consolodate all your sessions to 0 and export the bwf's, you should be just dandy.

But i guess you'd have to rewrite all your automation and plugs.

[StrykeBack]

Man theres a lot of bitchin going on in this thread

I was hoping for a huge upgrade as well but I think its time to put the 002r up on the bay and get a little bit of cash towards the lightbridge and go m-powered. Grab a presonus firestation and digimax fs and i'm good to go. Incase you guys have been too busy arguing, in a couple other threads on here...some guys have gotten the m-powered lightbridge to record at 32 inputs at 48k. Apparently a little bug or easter egg that digi left in.

So they are tracking into what was thought as the lower end m-powered at 32 tracks at a time and we are here arguing...

I used to have cubase sx2 with a firepod and did a couple great albums with it before being brainwashed by my recording school. I love the workflow of PT but I hate the look of the bright white and grey interface and long for cubase dark black and blues.. I've invested in the music production kit and not sure how some of my plugs would work in cubase 4 but i might have to go that way as well.

And I was getting so fast at PT...

One thing I've never seen another daw able to do, if your in punch mode and just playing but not recording and like something the artist is practicing and hit 3 to start recording, and once u've punched out and stopped, u can drag the wav form back and get all of that persons audio from the moment u started playing and not just recording..Can u do that in Cubase or nuendo because i wasn't aware of it but was blown away by how awesome that was that PT LE could do that?