003 is out!!!!

[xabiton]

Originally Posted by Jamoson

You know, I was thinking, I wonder if this has something to do with DIGI and Focusrite parting ways and DIGI not having Pre-amps or not being able to use them. So they go with a different pre and call it new. Any thoughts or confirmation on that? I love my 002R and will not upgrade and I love Protools but as far as I'm concerned MBox2, MBox Pro, and 003 have all been jokes. I can't believe nobody in a meeting said " I think they are all going to laugh at us"

i dont think digi is concerned with their current customers. They have this "Got u bitch" kind of attitude. Once u buy their gear its like "Ok **** it I don't want you anymore lets get with these new guys who don't know any better thats where the money is at." Its a sad way of thinking but very profitable. I think most of the more recent upgrades to Pro Tools just proves it. They are cocky because they are "industry standard" Ill be happy once Logic takes over not because Im a Logic user because I hate macs but because it will even out the playing field. Pro Tools will either have to step thier game up or disappear.

[Rev. Robb]

Originally Posted by brokemusician3

Ultimately this is good for Protools users because it will help their competition gain market share, then and only then will you see digi compete.

Well said!

[Windshore]

It's intriguing that Digi's Senior Director of Product Marketing would admit that the 003 was not designed to be an upgrade, but a "refresh". One might ask, Why not call it the 002N or some variation of the same name. Dah... then everyone would have immediately realized that they hadn't put any real effort in it, and that it's not an upgrade to the 002.

I can see that if I didn't own an 002, and I was looking to get into PTLE, that the 003 makes sense, but the fact is that in the few years since the 002 came out, a lot of things have changed, particularly computer capability and what the competition offers.

I know I'm not alone in saying my production chops are far progressed from 5 years ago. I have the Blacklion Mod, but I now use API an NEVE etc., so sound quality has already been taken care of... The jog wheel etc., is a non issue for Rack owners, especially those of us with midi controllers.

Digi may have have other surprises for us, but the lack of features that directly affect sound (and phase getting in and out or by routing within the software) are more relevant than the fact that the spec on their mic pre's are better.

IMO the 003 is fine for people who don't already own the 002, they just shouldn't have called it the 003. Digid obviously have a new product or product line in the works for 002 owners to upgrade and we'll probably hear about it this spring (be prepared to open your wallets), but this Director of Marketing should probably lose his job, or at least get a good lecture from his superiors.

[cetanorak]

I saw this quote from a similar thread on the TapeOp site. It was a response to the reason why the 003 is more of a refresh of the 002....

"It looks like Digi was pushed to put out a new product to comply with international standards with concerns to lead components."

After a bit of research I found this on the Avid site, which certainly could be a impetus for the refresh.


"http://www.avid.com/company/environment.asp"

.

[Relevent Muzik]

I like the 002 to much to switch yet ima need some ppl to tell me how good it is and then see for myself

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by xabiton

i dont think digi is concerned with their current customers. They have this "Got u bitch" kind of attitude. Once u buy their gear its like "Ok **** it I don't want you anymore lets get with these new guys who don't know any better thats where the money is at." Its a sad way of thinking but very profitable. I think most of the more recent upgrades to Pro Tools just proves it. They are cocky because they are "industry standard" Ill be happy once Logic takes over not because Im a Logic user because I hate macs but because it will even out the playing field. Pro Tools will either have to step thier game up or disappear.

You should attempt to educate yourself a little before posting retarded BS like this.

[lynyrd]

Digi has an offer of discounts for any Nuendo, Cubase or Sonar users who want to "move up to" a Digi 003. Just a little cheeky I would say.

[DISCERN]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

You should attempt to educate yourself a little before posting retarded BS like this.

Well its pretty plain to see that Digidesign's intentions behind releasing the 003 are more to do with hooking in new customers than providing existing customers with an alternative.

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by brokemusician3

Ultimately this is good for Protools users because it will help their competition gain market share, then and only then will you see digi compete. HD has a few years left period and digi knows it so they're just milking it as long as they can before they become a software only company.

yes, and the more I think about it, it's a bit of a stroke of brilliance on their part [from a business perspective] - release the 003, set up a great crossgrade program, rope in ten or fifteen thousand new users, then, just when many of them are finally realising the limitations of LE, maybe in a year's time, for example, release the 'mid-level bridge to HD' stuff that everyone here has been begging for. boom. many of them will upgrade, as will many current 002-series users. especially if they drop support for the 002 whenever that happens. more money for digi!

Pro Tools LX perhaps, with nearly all the HD features except TDM, and still linked to proprietary boxes? That would be OK...

[audiohog]

I'll stick with my Project Mix I/O. Almost the same thing for half the price. Works with Logic, Cubase, Live, etc.....

[Andrae Johnson]

Hi guys I posted this comment in another thread what do you think?

I was looking to get a new soundcard as I do a bit of live recording and I wanted more inputs. I own a digi 002 rack and comparing the digi 003(R) to the 002(R) there are only two or three main features. Do you think I should go for the Mackie Onyx 1200F (http://www.mackie.com/products/1200f/splash.html) which will record upto 30 tracks (over firewire @ 44.1KHZ-48KHZ) or do you think I should wait and see if Digidesign will bring out a Digi 003 Pro which i've been seeing them doing with there Le range lately. Which pre amp will sound better digi 003 or Mackie Onyx 1200F.

Andraé

[xabiton]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

You should attempt to educate yourself a little before posting retarded BS like this.

how is it bs everything ive seen from digi in the last 2 years has been put in the direction of saying **** their old customers and looking towards new ones. thats not bs thats simply an opinion im entitled to that

[Marmaduke]

...

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by xabiton

how is it bs everything ive seen from digi in the last 2 years has been put in the direction of saying **** their old customers and looking towards new ones. thats not bs thats simply an opinion im entitled to that

Well I don't upgrade much so maybe that's why I don't feel like I'm getting any kind of shaft. I'm also not the type of ADD person that needs a new toy every two years to make myself feel better. I don't hear any 002 users complaining that they feel left behind, I actually haven't heard any 001 owners complaining either. In fact over the last two years digi has put out some really decent plug ins that didn't cost anyone anything and they work all the way down to 6.4 which still qualifies 001 owners. My point is, the biggest Digi complainers out there tend not to be Digi owners, at least from what I've seen.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by Andrae Johnson

Which pre amp will sound better digi 003 or Mackie Onyx 1200F.

Andraé

That's a fairly difficult question to answer considering the 003 isn't even out yet, and last I heard, which was awhile ago, neither was the 1200f.

[Marmaduke]

It looks ok to me... a few nice upgrades and still the same price as a 002. Probably not enough to make existing 002 users upgrade, but then again, probably not enough to make them pissed off either... Looks like a good deal for new LE users though.

The 003 factory does actually offer some nice new features:

Better Pre's & convertors - If you check the tech specs on the Digi site (and in one of the previous posts) it looks like quite a significant step up. If its as big a step up as the mbox2 was from the mbox1, then it should sound pretty sweet. An annoying thing is that you can't bypass the gain stage on the first 4 analog ins oh well

Midi stand-alone mode - This is quite a big feature. Now you can use the control surface for other apps, and download/create maps to quickly switch between them. For example, you could be using protools rewired to ableton, and now you can quickly press a button and switch the control surface between the applications. Or you could use it as a controller for Logic. This wasn't possible with the 002- it was locked into controlling protools only... It had a stand-alone digital mixer mode, which isn't on the 003... probably because nobody ever used it.

Bigger LCD Display - like the command8... Now its big enough to see track names as well as plugin parameters.

Jog/Shuttle Wheel - A feature that should have been on the 002 factory but wasnt

BNC Word Clock i/o - This can sync to 96k, unlike the mbox2pro.

Automation control - buttons for automation modes are now on the control surface, this will be a pretty big time saver for a lot of people.

2 headphone outputs - with individual source & level controls... another nice little step up from the 002

The 003 factory also comes with Ignition Pack 2 Pro... in other words, a shed load of plugs, some useful some not. Includes 'lite' versions (not time bombed) of Reason, Ableton, Melodyne, BFD, amplitube, Arturia Analog Factory. You also get Synchronic, Xpand, Timewarp 2600, some sound libraries, some TL plugs, some Izotope plugs, Bomb Factory BF3-A as well as their free stuff, Maxim, Moogerfooger delay and ring mod, joemeek eq and compressor, sansamp psa-1, an ilok.... theres even more... but I cant be bothered to type them up ...its all on the digi site. Theres actually over 80 plugs/apps if you include the digirack stuff

Its just an update to the 002. just like with mbox1 -> mbox2 and 001 -> 002. Another thing is that Digi will keep supporting the 002 for a long time yet, so hopefully there will be some sweet deals on 002 racks before stock runs out. Digi didnt just stop supporting the 001 to spite people... I would think support stopped because the 001 runs off cards, not usb or firwire like the new LE interfaces, and I'm guessing theres quite a difference in drivers etc.

And... LE is cheap! Here in the UK Logic Pro costs £700... software only (obviously). 003 rack will cost £900... software, plus an interface with 18i/o.

Like I said, it looks pretty good to me, and I'm not a new user either. I bet theres a lot of small post facilities that would think that a 003 factory with the DV toolkit is a pretty good way to go

[terminal3]

Originally Posted by Marmaduke

And... LE is cheap! Here in the UK Logic Pro costs £700... software only (obviously). 003 rack will cost £900... software, plus an interface with 18i/o.

Like I said, it looks pretty good to me, and I'm not a new user either. I bet theres a lot of small post facilities that would think that a 003 factory with the DV toolkit is a pretty good way to go

But LE is not cheap when you have to figure in the DV toolkit - it also costs £900, and adds things which Logic has included, save for maybe Vocalign Project.

[LK7]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

I don't hear any 002 users complaining that they feel left behind, I actually haven't heard any 001 owners complaining either. My point is, the biggest Digi complainers out there tend not to be Digi owners, at least from what I've seen.

THAT, sir, is BS

This thread IS "002 users complaining that they feel left behind"

BTW, If you search any forum for 001 complaints you will find a bunch. In fact, I'd say you are one of the few to not complain about it. I could care less about what interface anyone uses. To each his own.
But, I just thought it was funny that you called the other guys comment "BS"(when he was pretty damn accurate imo) and then you spouted off some REAL BS

hipocrites

[moonpi]

Originally Posted by LK7

THAT, sir, is BS

This thread IS "002 users complaining that they feel left behind"

Well, I don't necessarily feel left behind rather than STUNTED by the release of what is the Digi003 rather than what SHOULD BE.

I know it isn't going to be HD and I'm not expecting that. But for chrissake... gimme control over my ins and outs like I should have! Frankly, the unit could and should have TWO ADAT I/Os. I can deal with 18 in and out, though I would like more.

Digidesign really is making a base of disillusioned customers who will think twice about staying locked into their system. While I might have to keep one type of ProTools system on hand just to stay compatible with my old sessions, I am SERIOUSLY considering a new system that will NOT have ANY Digidesign or M-Audio product in it anywhere.

[Jonboy79]

Originally Posted by LK7

THAT, sir, is BS

This thread IS "002 users complaining that they feel left behind"

BTW, If you search any forum for 001 complaints you will find a bunch. In fact, I'd say you are one of the few to not complain about it. I could care less about what interface anyone uses. To each his own.
But, I just thought it was funny that you called the other guys comment "BS"(when he was pretty damn accurate imo) and then you spouted off some REAL BS

hipocrites

It's the left behind part that's BS, why do 002 users feel left behind? Makes no sense. My opinion about 001's comes from people that I know personally, they're all very happy with how things are working.

[xabiton]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

Well I don't upgrade much so maybe that's why I don't feel like I'm getting any kind of shaft. I'm also not the type of ADD person that needs a new toy every two years to make myself feel better. I don't hear any 002 users complaining that they feel left behind, I actually haven't heard any 001 owners complaining either. In fact over the last two years digi has put out some really decent plug ins that didn't cost anyone anything and they work all the way down to 6.4 which still qualifies 001 owners. My point is, the biggest Digi complainers out there tend not to be Digi owners, at least from what I've seen.

every 002 owner ive spoken with is not happy about it. Im not a PT user and this is one of the reasons. This type of attitude digi has with their customers. After a while digi will stop supporting the old gear like the 001. Id personally be mad if I bought a piece of gear that will only work right with your software and now u r saying u wont work wtih me anymore. I believe they dont support the original mboxes either but that may just be rumor I dont know. I heard basically that they have discontinued support to their legacy gear. For those people who have bought old digi design gear its kind of messed up I dont want to be in that same boat in a few years. Thats why it annoys me.

[jbski]

Originally Posted by Jonboy79

It's the left behind part that's BS, why do 002 users feel left behind? Makes no sense. My opinion about 001's comes from people that I know personally, they're all very happy with how things are working.

All hope of me sticking with ProTools is gone after seeing this.

I'll tell you why a 002 user feels left out ... let's compare here:


Digi 003 (aka Digi 002 DUB edition) :

16 i/o ... yay! Oh but wait ... there are only 4 preamps. If you're a drummer with any hope of recording, you're going to have to spend more money on some preamps. Let's go cheap and pick up an ADA8000.

12 preamps ... yay! Oh but wait ... my drums take up 8 of those when I'm being lazy & 12 when I get really creative. So, if you're a drummer with a band, you're probably going to need 4 more preamps to max out your preamped i/o. Let's go cheap again for another ADA8000.

16 preamps ... BNC for external sync ... gogo 96k ... yay! Oh but wait one more minute. What good is 96k external sync when my damn ADAT is still limited to 48k? So now I'm back down to 48k ... son of a.

32 voices ... yay for expansion! Oh but wait. You can only run one 00anything. If you have any hope of growing beyond 16 inputs, get ready to shell out 5 figures on TDM.

Let's recap our costs here for a 16 crappy Behringer pre-amped i/o @ 48k system here with no expansion options:

003R ($1200) + 2 ADA8000 ($500) = [b]$1700[b] ($2050 had I gone Rack Factory)


Let's see what MOTU has for us ... how about the 896HD:

16 i/o ... yay! Oh but, I need 8 more preamps. ADA8000.

16 preamps ... BNC for external sync ... gogo 96k via SMUX ... yay! Oh crap, I need an external preamp that does 96k ... DigiMax FS sounds good.

16 preamps @ 96k. Oh, but I need software ... let's just get DP.

Let's recap our costs here for a 16 good pre-amped i/o @ 96k system here with plenty of room to grow:

896HD ($1000) + PreSonus DigiMax FS ($600) + DP5 ($500) = $2100 .. hmm not bad but worth it since I hope to get better at my trade and start pulling in bigger sessions.

Let's see what PreSonus has for us ... how about the FireStudio:

24 i/o ... yay! Oh but I need 8 preamps again. DigMax FS

16 preamps ... BNC for external sync ... 96k ... missing software ... let's take Cubase 4 Studio.

Let's recap our costs here for a 16 great (and all same) pre-amped i/o @ 96k system with plenty of room to grow and a DSP mixer for splitting signals live (giving me more $-making options):

PreSonus FireStudio ($700) + PreSonus DigiMax FS ($600) + Cubase 4 Studio ($400) = $1700 ... wow ... I'm back at my original price point, except this system has the great preamps, the 96k, expandability AND plugin-ins to boot.


------------------


So there you have it. I'm sitting here staring at my 002 pretty bummed Digi has not given me ANY reason to keep using Pro Tools. I would gladly spend $2000 for a 003 that could at least do 24 of the 32 i/o Pro Tools can supposedly do. (The DigiMax money is long-since spent expanding our 002.)

But no. Digi seems to only care about their TDM guys. We can either spend all our money and stop dead at 16 max i/o @ 48k, or we can spend the same amount and have a better all-around system with 16 great preamps and the possibility (in some cases) to expand up to 48 i/o @ 48k.



Hmmm ... you do the math and tell me why a 002R user might feel slighted ...

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Oh but wait ... it's a pro tool! Clearly, that explains it now.

[AlexLakis]

Xabiton: Get used to it. Technology marches on. If you want something that you won't have to replace in a couple of years, then don't buy any computers or recording interfaces. It's the march of time. It will always be this way. This doesn't bother me in the slightest...in fact, I expect it.

JonBoy79: Everybody and their mother complains about their Digi interfaces. Have you ever been to the Digidesign support forum? Even people I know who have 002s and 001s who record happily with them every day still bitch about them. I LOVE Pro Tools, and I think the 002 is a good deal for the money. But I HATE the fact that it doesn't have 16 channels of ADAT, and I hate the questionable analog sections. It's a love/hate relationship for 95% of all Digi users, I promise you. That's what happens when you release "eh" hardware.

Honestly, I think the 003 would have been received MUCH better by existing users if they had called it the 002 Pro.

[xabiton]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Xabiton: Get used to it. Technology marches on. If you want something that you won't have to replace in a couple of years, then don't buy any computers or recording interfaces. It's the march of time. It will always be this way. This doesn't bother me in the slightest...in fact, I expect it.

Honestly, I think the 003 would have been received MUCH better by existing users if they had called it the 002 Pro.

I expect technology to move on but I dont expect them to abandon the old stuff. Thers a saying if it aint broke dont fix it. They didnt have to stop support of the old systems just because they made something new. Im all for advancement but it shouldnt be expected that users of old gear can't get help from the people who created it. Thats just wrong imo

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by xabiton

Thers a saying if it aint broke dont fix it.

Then don't upgrade to the latest versions of the software that require the latest versions of the hardware. You can still use the 001 with 6.7, and you always will be able to.

Stay frozen in time with your hardware/software combo, or get with the times. It's your choice.