Preamp search - the final: VTB1 vs. GoldMike 9844

[Polarelch]

So... now that I got me an Audio-Technica AT 2020 mic, I now want to get me a new preamp.
Five candidates survived, they are:

Studio Projects VTB1
M-Audio DMP3
Art Pro Channel
SPL Goldmike 9844
Joemeek SixQ (instead of the threeQ)

Why I don't like the Rane: It costs 245 Euros for just being a preamp without any additional knobs or buttons, it may sound as good as people say, but somehow I miss a phase invert button and so on.
Same for the Joemeek ThreeQ and the DMP3 btw. The SixQ is a little bit out of my price range, it should really be outstanding against the Goldmike to make it interesting for me. Is it?

The Art Pro Channel... well, I heard so many recommendations that I should replace the tube, and I have absolutely no idea about that, don't even know where to get those tubes, what they cost, and who can do that for me. I am sceptical about this all. Also heard about noise problems and that they are not good in the heights, and I tend to sing high and almost whispering.

So in the end, there are 2 finalists: The VTB1 and the GoldMike 9844.
One for 118 EUR, the other for 398 EUR.
What sounds good about the VTB1: Of course the reviews on Harmony-Central, the possibilities, the price.
What sounds good about the Goldmike: The flair function, and some other heard opinions.
What is bad, is that I have no clue about THEIR sound, and I will only know when already bought!

Maybe something to my situation right now:
Having an AT 2020, using ART Tube MP at the moment, going into a Tascam FW-1082, usage only for my (male) vocals.
Want to sound rather soft and warm, but transparent, especially in the heights... and not hard / aggressive. Looking for some breath and presence in my sound actually. Clean and present in the mids.
As I said, I often tend to sing in higher ranges and almost whispering, like ... maybe Coldplay, Keane, Travis, Mercury Rev (just that I use more synth and no guitars). Also like strong mids though.

So... the decision has to be done, and it's - as said - most likely between the VTB1 and the Goldmike 9844 (not the other Goldmike!).
Would be great to get some final opinions from you guys before I call Thomann, especially about the Goldmike 9844 and the VTB1. Sure I searched for existing threads about them, but I guess I want to read opinions that can also be valid for my needs.. and not for female bass rapping or so.

It should definitely be a step further from my ART Tube MP and the tascam integrated preamps..... but I don't expect high-end from that price either. Just a next step on the ladder towards high-end. :)

[dlmorley]

The Goldmike would be my choice.
1 advantage is you can use it for stereo work if need be. The price thomann do it for is GREAT and SPL are a great company in my experience...
You could get both and send one back...

[dickiefunk]

I own both. They are both superb value pres. The Goldmike is a nice classy sounding pre where the VTB1 is pretty flexible offering both solid state and tube! I don't know which one is better cos they sound different! The Goldmike sounds smoother and the VTB1 is pretty flexible offering clean solid state and tube! If I had the choice again I would probably have chosen the DMP3 over the VTB1. There is nothing better than the Goldmike for the price just different! If I had a little extra money I would probably go with the SPL Gainstation. Awesome pre but probably out of your budget. How much does the DAV BG1 go for? This is also an awesome pre.

[Polarelch]

thanks guys...

one problem is of course that I can't try either before buying. Here in Cologne I only could try out the Presonus TubePre... which sounded quite good to me, but I read so many bad things about it here that I am hesitating.
With Thomann, well of course I can order a couple and send back what I didn't like, but somehow I have no experience with that method and so I am sceptical.

And my budget, well, 400 EUR is really the upper maximum, and if you say that you don't know which is better, one for 100 or one for 400... of course I'd choose the cheaper one (VTB1).
I also read good stuff about the Joemeek ThreeQ... but it has no phase invert... is this a big minus? I still didn't figure out for what I would need phase invert.
ATM I also think about lowering my price maximum to 200, so that there will be more money "left" for my next upgrade, which will take place next year anyway.
Dunno if that is wise though.

Without looking at the price, I'd buy the Goldmike *and* the VTB1 immediately.
But my wallet has the last word, and it tends to force me to go for lowest-end. :S
Is the Presonus TubePre (111 EUR) much worse than the VTB1 (118)?
Is the Goldmike (398) much better than the Joemeek ThreeQ (174)? And is the Goldmike better than the ART Pro Channel (with its original tube, 398?)

[Bosskitty]

I have the VTB-1 & the Rane MS1B & both are great value units for the price.. the Rane is Clearer/ & has a more solid low-end, so if i had to pic between the two to do overdubs on, that gets my vote everytime & btw...it does have a phase reverse (on the back)!!!

[Polarelch]

oh...
thanks for the info, good to know. So I can actually put the Rane back into the final..... does it sound warm as well?

[dickiefunk]

Yeah the Rane is a step up from the VTB1. As for the others I haven't tried but I know people that have and the general consensus is that the Goldmike is pick of the bunch followed by Rane. After that the margins are so close! I'd personally then go for the M-Audio DMP3 followed by the VTB1. The Joe Meek is also a good pre but is quite coloured! I haven't tried the Art or Presonus but the reports that I've heard put these at the bottom of the list.

[Chrisc_o]

Not to make your life more difficult, but I love my ThreeQ, and phase inversion can be done later in the chain (ITB or mixer).

This feature alone should not be the prime factor for you to disregard it as a contender. It sounds great!

[Polarelch]

Nah, this makes it all easier :) Good to know about the phase reverse.
Thank you... so the ThreeQ now is totally in the race again.

I know..... you guys can surely tell how undecisive I am... !
Anyway, I just have to try Thomann and the send-back-possibility...
just a pity that Music Store doesn't have such a big variety of offered preamps as Thomann has.
Maybe I'll order 2 or 3 preamps and keep one. Most likely VTB1, ThreeQ and Goldmike. So the final is completely open again...
but if I order at Thomann anyway, then I can also cancel the Presonus from the list. This was only because I thought I should get the preamp from my standard store in my city. I have to be unfaithful now for once.

So.. it will be VTB1, DMP3, ThreeQ, Rane or Goldmike, while DMP3 and Goldmike offer 2 channels where I only need one.... and the Rane looks still so naked to me :)
Anyway: VTB1, ThreeQ and Goldmike are the most likely finalists atm.

[AlexLakis]

For what it's worth, I think both the VTB-1 and the DMP-3 are great, especially for the price. If it helps you out any, I have an MP3 posted right now where all the drums and guitars were tracked thru only VTB-1s and DMP-3s. No effects going in or plugins during mixdown.

Here's the link: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=109271

[Guitarzan]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

For what it's worth, I think both the VTB-1 and the DMP-3 are great, especially for the price. If it helps you out any, I have an MP3 posted right now where all the drums and guitars were tracked thru only VTB-1s and DMP-3s. No effects going in or plugins during mixdown.

Here's the link: http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5853/dscf1018kw3.jpg

Nice seagull, but where are the clips?

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Guitarzan

Nice seagull, but where are the clips?

LOL! My kid hit something on my laptop keyboard and now CTRL-C doesn't work anymore. I edited my post above to provide the proper link. Here it is again just in case: http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=109271

[junior]

Originally Posted by dickiefunk

The Joe Meek is also a good pre but is quite coloured!

that's true of the older meeks. the newer ones like the 3q and 6q are pretty transparent, though. in fact, the 6q can do clean -and- colored (using the "iron" switch).

[dickiefunk]

The DMP3 also has phase reverse switches on the back! The DMP3 is widely regarded as a slight step up from the VTB1! This is not to say the VTB1 isn't very good because it is but the DMP3 is even better for the money! I never really liked the tube on the VTB1 and if I am to keep it I'd replace it.
At the moment the VTB1 is great but I'm thinking of selling it to get a Rane, Trakmaster Pro or DMP3.

[Polarelch]

AlexLakis,

interesting song, sounds good also, but I don't know if I can judge from it when I only want to record vocals with it.

DMP3 is not available at Thomann anymore as it seems...
I'm gonna call them now and maybe order something. :)

[dickiefunk]

Cool. Maybe ask about the SM Pro Audio Pres TB101 and TC01. These are an unknown entity! See what they say bout these!

[Polarelch]

too late....
just ordered the Goldmike and VTB1 :)
Goldmike will come monday or tuesday I guess, VTB1 has a delay of 2 weeks or so.
Yay, something to look forward to again ;)

[dickiefunk]

Cool no worries. Could you let me know how you get on?

[dlmorley]

tell us about the goldmike! I'm tempted too...

[Polarelch]

Sure...
I will give my opinion in here when I have it and tried around a bit..
but remember that my comparison is an inbuilt preamp in my tascam fw 1082, and a cheap ART Tube MP. :)
Haven't really any experience with preamps more than them! This will change now though :D

[Polarelch]

Finally the Goldmike arrived today! :)
I wish I could tell you how it sounds already, but I might have some problem with it - or I am too stupid:

The Warm Up LED just doesn't get off. It keeps on shining, for minutes...
in the manual they write that it should be all off after some seconds, but it's just red light all the time :-S
I hope that nothing is wrong with it? I have it on for 5 minutes now and still the light doesn't go off :-S

Hope you guys can help me there.

[dickiefunk]

Hmmm that does sound like it could be a fault. I just turned mine on and it took 13 seconds for the light to go off!

[dlmorley]

Is it possible that the valves worked loose in transport?

[Polarelch]

hmm, I think I'm gonna call Thomann tomorrow, they are closed already now. The light is still on, no sound can be heard.
ABout the valves... I have no idea, no experiences in anything with valves by now :S

[dlmorley]

It could have had a bumpy ride. I have had things arrive upside down, so I just thought depending on how the valves are fitted, it could be possible that they dropped out or worked loose.
Having said this though, Thomann are fast with exchanging stuff, so I'd call them and see what they say.

[Polarelch]

The new one arrived today!
And it works!

So... what are my thoughts about it?
First I want to let you know, that my experiences are little about recording in general (just beginning) and my mic is the AT 2020.
Well... sure it sounds nice. I compared it with some recordings with my old preamp and the first impression was, that it's MUCH less noisy.

In fact there is no noise in the recording, when I have my vocals on the volume I need. I also have the feeling that it sounds a bit brighter.
But to be really honest, up to this point, I doubt if the differences are worth 400 Euros. Maybe I don't hear the differences, but besides the noise being away, it sounds almost the same. Maybe I expected too much, maybe I should try around at some settings, maybe an other cable...
and maybe it's the best I can get with this mic even.
I expect the VTB1 to come within the next 7 days, so I will see if this can impress me better. But maybe I really just expected too much, or I won't like my voice with any preamp, another possibility :)

[dickiefunk]

How is the room treated that you're recording the vocals in? The differences may be less obvious due to the acoustics of the room. I really like my Goldmike. Am looking to add the Rane Ms-1b to my collection for really clean. Will probably end up selling my VTB1.

[Polarelch]

Ahh well, that could be the reason maybe.
My room is not really that good...
it's narrow, has 2 big parrallel window walls, and tiles on the ground. I treated it with hanging 3 plates of foam into it in 3 dimensions, and I'm singing a bit into the corner of it, and carpets on the floor, curtains closed.
That's really the only room I have for recording, the rest of my small 1-room-appartment is full.

I just compared stuff again, and now I even get the impression that my ART Tube MP (the cheap one) sounds better (!) - cleaner and clearer.
I am worried about my reason and ears!

[Polarelch]

Now I heard the difference, but now a new problem occured.
The VTB1 has a delay and is announced for 28. march now!!

I am really p***ed off now, since I can't compare the 2 next to each other, by that day I should have sent the Goldmike back again, and I am not that impressed (yet) that I'd already have decided for or against it. It's 300 Euros difference, with which I could get other necessary equipment like Melodyne, and food.
So I just wonder if I should send back the Goldmike and change the dealer again, or just get the presonus tubepre from my local store. I'm annoyed.

My voice sucks too btw, another possible explanation why I can't be impressed.
Is there a preamp out there that is traditionally best for crap voices? :)
(my voice sounds pressed, thin, closed and has a small rattle in it.)

Another possibility would be to send back the goldmike, get the VTB in about a month, maybe prefer the goldmike then, send back the VTB, order the goldmike again... and begin with my recordings 3 months later than planned.........

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by Polarelch

Now I heard the difference, but now a new problem occured.
The VTB1 has a delay and is announced for 28. march now!!

I am really p***ed off now, since I can't compare the 2 next to each other, by that day I should have sent the Goldmike back again, and I am not that impressed (yet) that I'd already have decided for or against it. It's 300 Euros difference, with which I could get other necessary equipment like Melodyne, and food.
So I just wonder if I should send back the Goldmike and change the dealer again, or just get the presonus tubepre from my local store. I'm annoyed.

My voice sucks too btw, another possible explanation why I can't be impressed.
Is there a preamp out there that is traditionally best for crap voices? :)
(my voice sounds pressed, thin, closed and has a small rattle in it.)

Another possibility would be to send back the goldmike, get the VTB in about a month, maybe prefer the goldmike then, send back the VTB, order the goldmike again... and begin with my recordings 3 months later than planned.........

So let's sum up shall we? You are trying to reccord a crappy voice in a crappy sounding room and you are wondering why an inexpensive mic-pre isn't making things dramatically better?

The problem with improving a part of your system is that it sometimes exposes the deficiencies of other parts. This is why many maintain there is no God:)