M-audio firewire 410 preamps vs external pre-amps

[Slim Cutty]

Hey! Sorry if this is a re-post (I did make an attempt to search but didn't find anything related) ... at anyrate; I own a m-audio firewire 410 interface and I love the quality but the pre-amps sound a little too clear/thin ... just plain sterile. I know that I can add a bit more compression after the vocal is recorded but I was wondering if there is a better external pre-amp than the 410s in the price range of let's say $300.

Any experienced users of this interface please lend some tips to make my vocals fuller or any other pre-amp out there that will be better than the ones that come in this interface. (Oh yeah... I'm pretty much a noob lamens terms would be greatly appreciated ..lol ) thanks in advance

Peace!

[Acoustic Cloud]

Cutty,

There are alot of pres that are probably better than the ones in the interface. At 300 bux, there are 4.5 million choices!!! I remember the 410 has an unbalanced only thing with the i/o, just make sure what you look at as an outboard pre is ok with that.

Ill let some better knowledged peoples give you some ideas on the better outboard pres.

[Slim Cutty]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

I remember the 410 has an unbalanced only thing with the i/o, just make sure what you look at as an outboard pre is ok with that.

I guess I'll have to do some research on "unbalanced only i/o's" ... I just don't want to buy a pre and it ends up sounding exactly the same as the ones that are in the 410 (as I haven't had any other preamps to compare to it ... the only other preamp was in the mobile pre usb and that thing is noisy horrible). Thanks for the direction!

[Slim Cutty]

After some research and a great convo with a tech over at sweetwater ..lol he suggested the "MPA Gold Art" ...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/closeup/MPAGold--Main

Looks great! has anyone had any experience with this piece??? Thanks in advance!

[Big_Bang]

You cannot go wrong with an M-Audio DMP3!

Its cheap and pumped my sound into an new orbit. Also a 410 user, soon to be glad to let it go. Unfortunately, I was not a happy user.

But keep it up, you're headin' in a good path

[Slim Cutty]

Originally Posted by Sir.Audio

You cannot go wrong with an M-Audio DMP3!

So are you saying that the M-audio DMP3's pres are better than the firewire 410s??? I know the price normally has nothing to do with the gear right; however, I am just trying to sway away from getting lesser pres in attempt to clean things up ... I don't wanna go backwards ... I appreciate your suggestion good sir ...lol thanks

[Acoustic Cloud]

Hey Slim,
usually almost ANY outboard pres are better than any built ins. The ART, DMP3, VTB1,etc etc are going to make you sound alot better. I would look at a Joemeek preamp. The ART gold may sound good, but its a one trick pony.

Check out the 3Q from Joemeek.

[Slim Cutty]

I greatly appreciate it! Joemeek is a little steep and doesn't have many good reviews ... but I'll take your "ANY" pre word for it and work within my price means ... you guys have been great help!

[Big_Bang]

Hey, no problem.

I think it's pretty much a general consensus that the DMP3 is a sort of Shure SM57/58 - in the low end preamp scheme of things. Please, anyone come in and rectify my statements at any time as I know this is always a subjective thing...but that is what I gathered from my journey... It's a can't-go-wrong choice.

I got one just because I landed a really sweet ebay deal, including a studio projects b1 microphone, both really cheap. Since buying the M-Audio 410, I've since developed an.. ickyness.. about this brand, not as bad as I would behringer, but I got an itch I cant seem to scratch... anyway... the only thing the DMP3 did for me was gain my respect for the company again. Never judge a book by it's cover sort of thing... even behringer, I hate to admit, has its VERY ocasional winners...

I have no safety net to say this myself, so I will be giving out second hand opinions I gathered. Very very transparent unit. Really expsoses you mics qualities / defects as it colours you sound very little. This is both good and bad, but I really recommend getting unclouring material to kick start your adventure. Then, as you finesse is personal taste/aproach/style/needs/knowledge/etc - you will be wanting THAT gear for THAT purpose because the sound will be better for THAT stuff. (good mic for vocals is BAD for kick drum vice versa)

Colouring mics or preamps or what not - are stuff that is designed to have an "audio personality" - like all guitars have their own unique sound, and categorized into the Tele sound, the Les Paul sound... or amps like tweed, british etc etc..

To the untrained ear, it would *mask* the sound a little or alot. This can be very preferable to obtain *that* caracter of sound you might be looking for. (extreme example, like using a real telefone for a "telefone" efect on a song - the telephone mic has an EQ curve you DO want, for this certain ocasion)

In this situation, the DMP3 is said to have a very uncoloured circuitry. Meaning you would have a preamp that reveals the sound of the mic of choice, but in general terms you will have more freedom to tweak the sound at heart's content ITB (in the box, in your sequencer, with your eq's, fx's, compressors, etc...)

I love it, truely. The 410 has an operational fixed level at -10dB, and one thing you WILL certainly notice is you cannot drive the DMP3's gain as much as you'd like before the 410 start farting out red lights. This is good and bad, but no biggie for starting out and learning - just dont drive the gain passed those red lights!

Bad because you will always have this issue, regardless what preamp you choose, it's a big stupid shame the 410 is so. Bad, because you wont be taking full potential of the DMP3's sound. Good, because it will certainly outlive your 410's lifespan, so it's good now and for the rest of your life, at the very least as a 2 mono preamp and/or D.I. box you can always have around for choice. Just like an old faithful SM57 is ALWAYS good to have around.

But, right here right now, without doubt, you will upgrade your sound quality considerably - NOT SLIGHTLY. If you dont have a condenser, buy a cheap ass, any type, and you have a new field of sonic exploration in your hands plugin it into the DMP3. You can go for certain details you cannot with most cheap dynamic. Much cooler for tracking vocals. Beware of traffic ! I started recording low end rumble I NEVER heard before, coming from passing trucks etc... the DMP3 has it's own low cut for these situations. The detail I got was so high, I, for the first time ever I understood what it was "room acoustics" REALLLY meant.

Compressing, you will only loosing dynamic range of your recording, it will NOT fatten your sound, per se. It will even out the sound, yes, make it apparantly louder, but you will loose mixing "control" over it, for sure. Compression is something to be take very ... carefully. Never as a band-aid for sound. Always to emphasise/de-emphasise certain aspects of... this is important.. good recordings to start with.

All round, all this I said applies to any sort of stand alone preamp you might get (exceptions excluded, obviously) - and I am also saying all this stuff because you specifically ask for basic overall explanations...

Note you will have balanced outs from the DMP3. This is great (for the future) as balanced signals eliminate signal losses from cable runs, interfearances from power supplies (ground hum), radiowaves, etc. Unfortunately, the DMP3 works unbalanced, even with it's XLR !! This was unbelievable to me, but it IS so. The good news is the 410 is actually NOT very noisy, but be sure to always check you have a clean signal though !

If you have lost your heart at some many "problems" - dont. I managed to record some really beautiful stuff with the 410 itself. I used to have an old Live 5.1 Platinum with front bay and this was certainly a new league of audio.

With the DMP3 I got into a new whole new ball game, smiling very much very often at what I recorded. Also ran into many many "problems" that only revealed a new learning curve. All in all my recording went sky rocketing, very easily! But, also new "problems" arose and I must say I am glad I had a 410, because I really DID learn very very very many life lessons thanks to my limited audio card.

I know now much more about audio than I would if I had then (at the time of purchasing my 410 three years ago) bought, say, a Motu traveler ou fireface or digi02 whatever.

So, kick off with looking at the DMP3. At least to start, to later compare pro's and cons.

Presonus Bluetube
Studio Projects VTB1
Art Tube MP

These are the lowest price / well know units

Sorry for the huge messy post, to late to rectify this much writing but any questions - shoot!

[Slim Cutty]

Sir Audio you are the man!!! thumbsup

[Travthesoundguy]

I've used the Studio Projects VTB1, great, cheap tube mic pre