Best of the Chinese Ribbons?

[joejnyc]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

My Premium Electronics upgrade to the circuit is seventy nine each.

But back to cheap ribbons - Today (Feb 22, 2007) MF's "Stupid deal of the day" has a special price on that popular "lollipop" ribbon mic:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/stupid

jeez. I had to go pick one up. $150? Come on!

I'm still gonna pick up a CAD 179 from Front End, though.

[joejnyc]

also, looks like my firepod should have enough impedance at the input to make it sound ok. Maybe I shoulda looked before buying...

[redddog]

Originally Posted by Fman

War don't listen to someone giving you sh*t for not posting something; not everyone has the luxury of scanning these forums every four minutes...some of us actually have work to do, and this is sort of a nice way to share our enjoyment of gear.

Who was giving War shit for not posting?

[warhead]

It's all good, no worries.

War

[GravityRobert]

Hey Warhead, any news on the ribbon shootout?

[warhead]

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...2079&alid=1647

Click the arrow on the right to download.

This was a quick and fairly informal test, the performances weren't as consistent as I normally like to have but my friend tried real hard. I think they're close enough and show the differences between the mics anyhow. It's a Yamaha FG413S acoustic with Elixir strings, the mics are positioned about 14" away from the guitar pointing where the neck meets the body. Preamp is an AEA TRP (the TRP rocks...so much gain...so little noise!). I recorded front and rear samples of each mic on acoustic, same session. The Beyer M260 is hypercardioid hence the tighter sound also and only one clip.

Hope this helps, a bit thrown together but it's all I've got right now.

War

[GravityRobert]

Very cool, I had to bump this. My personal favorite out of the bunch is the apex 205. In my ears, it gave that warm, yet articulate representation of the guitar. Bit like the latest Jack Johnson recordings?

Thanks Warhead for the shootout, the differences between them are huge!

[joejnyc]

I have not listened to this thru my monitors (thiel cs 3.5) but only some old bose "room mates" here in my living room, and the differences are pretty small, with the exception of the Beyer, which sounded much more defined and articulate, but gave up too much in the mids and low mids to sound well rounded. Maybe, though, that's just the mic you want for an accoustic background track, not muddying up anything.

My ears honed in on that muted picking in the second bunch of strums.

The Oktava sounded the "furthest away," with the attack muddy and the picking ill defined, and the Trion seemed to have the greatest front/rear difference. the sound of the pick really seemed to fade away on the rears of the 210, and the Trion, and to a lesser extent the avant. I'll listen later in the studio and maybe change my mind, though.

But you want it to sound good outta one-way speakers, too.

The 205 did have pleasing mids and a well rounded tone, GravRob. Would sound great on the guitar soloed. I think that the Avant, the Beyer, and the Cad would be better for those strummy tracks that you lay behind your standard rock mix.

All the mics might sound far different if placement got played with...

The Cad and the Avant win the beauty contest, though.

Thank you, War for your shootout post. I linked to it in another BBS.

[warhead]

Feel free to share, glad they are helping people. It takes a lot of time to do these things, I know it's a 3 minute adventure for you all to download them but many times I have hours and hours wrapped up in these things. Half the reason I do these shootouts and record them is so I can make better recommendations at Front End Audio, spending time with them and knowing how mics sound vs one another for particular needs.

They do each sound totally different (except the Apex models are pretty close in sound).

Some are going to be better for all purpose use, some are going to do one sound REALLY well.

War

PS: I will try and get back on these mics with other sources in the near future, but have been more in outboard gear testing mode lately!

[joejnyc]

duly appreciated, War! I definitely applaud your business model.

I had seen your "what we think" write up on that hi-impedance preamp on the front end site. I would shure dig having one of those. I wonder what each mic sounds like through more average preamps, as the purchasers of the cheapies likely don't have pres that show their mics that much of a Hi Z.

[peeder]

Listening back on ADAM S3A's...

The CAD, Avant, and Oktava are useless tracks, and I presume, useless mics! Sorry...

The Apex 205 is OK, the 210 is actually quite good. The M260 may be even a bit too harsh and crispy. The transients are stiff and need taming, but it's got the highest fidelity.

I have Nady RSM-2's which I pulled all the insulation out from...they are cousins of the Apex 210. I use one in combination with a condenser to get a decent acoustic sound. I imagine the 210 in this test still has all that insulation and would open up a bit without it. I pick it and the 260 as winners of the shootout.

I view acoustic guitar to be one of the best overall tests of microphone fidelity so I don't miss the other tests.

(BTW: Nady will re-ribbon a mic for you for $50 at their facility. So the people worried about their warranties should keep that in mind...it's not that big a deal if you blow a ribbon...)

And PS...zak7...lol!

[vs.Gotham]

I loved the sound of the Trion 7000 myself. Nice vintage sound but still a bit of punch.

If you don't mind a cry for newbie knowledge - how useable is a low price ribbon mic in an untreated room with a low end setup (DMP3 into mbox2 most likely). I do a lot of location recording and I'd hate to buy a mic that I could only use in optimal situations.

And thanks for all the help you give by the way Warren. You have no idea how useful your information has been as I've been starting up my setup (You've got me seriously considering Tascam VLX5's as opposed to HS50m or even NS-10s).

[firby]

Thanks for the thread Warren. You always get this stuff right.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by joejnyc

I wonder what each mic sounds like through more average preamps, as the purchasers of the cheapies likely don't have pres that show their mics that much of a Hi Z.

I doubt I will have time to switch out preamps in this manner, but maybe the next test I'll just use a Mackie Onyx or something similar?

Originally Posted by peeder

The CAD, Avant, and Oktava are useless tracks, and I presume, useless mics! Sorry...

<snip>I view acoustic guitar to be one of the best overall tests of microphone fidelity so I don't miss the other tests.

I disagree that they are useless. All of these mics sound different, but depending on the source the Oktava could beat another on midrange response or the CAD beat another on full and round sound. Just depends on what's needed. As far as fidelity goes I agree, a complex sound like acoustic guitar is a very good test on ribbons.

Originally Posted by mab

I also have read that sometimes there is protective material around the ribbon on some mics that once removed open up the mic. Any idea if that applies to the Trion 7000?

I haven't experimented with taking any of them apart.

Originally Posted by vs.Gotham

I loved the sound of the Trion 7000 myself. Nice vintage sound but still a bit of punch.

If you don't mind a cry for newbie knowledge - how useable is a low price ribbon mic in an untreated room with a low end setup (DMP3 into mbox2 most likely). I do a lot of location recording and I'd hate to buy a mic that I could only use in optimal situations.

I like the CAD for the same reasons, great ribbon mic sound.

Originally Posted by firby

Thanks for the thread Warren. You always get this stuff right.

I try. You are all very welcome.

War

[fross]

Hey, I'm not trying to be a prick and I'm definately not trying to start any pissing matches, but I've noticed alot of interest in the Aphex 205 ribbons. That's not suprising, considering they can be had for $99.

I've also noticed quite a few folks jizzzing over Michael Joly's mod for the Aphex. Now that's all well and good, but the only person who seems to really be plugging that mod and singing it's accolades is............................Michael Joly.

I'm not in any way suggesting it's not a great mod and that it won't do what he claims, but Michael, you're always here for these "Cheap Ribbon" discussions to talk about how your mod is the schizzle and how it'll make the Aphex rival the Coles.

Again, I'm not denying any of your claims, but it just seems like aggressive merchandising to me.

No disrespect, I'm just saying.

Are there any Gearslutz out there that aren't related to, drinking buddies with or long time associates of Michael Joly that can chime in, comment on, post some clips or something?

[Brad McGowan]

I have two of Michaels modded MK219's. His work is the real deal. If you've ever had the pleasure of speaking to this man you would know he is incredibly passionate and experienced in what he does. Even though he's a pretty humble guy, he has a long and accomplished history in audio from what I recall.

Brad

[lpkyer]

i'm glad I ordered the 205...cant wait to make the few light mods.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by fross

Hey, I'm not trying to be a prick and I'm definately not trying to start any pissing matches, but I've noticed alot of interest in the Aphex 205 ribbons. That's not suprising, considering they can be had for $99.

I've also noticed quite a few folks jizzzing over Michael Joly's mod for the Aphex. Now that's all well and good, but the only person who seems to really be plugging that mod and singing it's accolades is............................Michael Joly.

I'm not in any way suggesting it's not a great mod and that it won't do what he claims, but Michael, you're always here for these "Cheap Ribbon" discussions to talk about how your mod is the schizzle and how it'll make the Aphex rival the Coles.

Again, I'm not denying any of your claims, but it just seems like aggressive merchandising to me.

No disrespect, I'm just saying.

Are there any Gearslutz out there that aren't related to, drinking buddies with or long time associates of Michael Joly that can chime in, comment on, post some clips or something?

Not related, don't know him, barely touched base with him before ordering a 205 and having it sent directly to him for modding. Dude, you are way off base. Way..

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

Apex 205 w/ Michael Joly mods

Sorry, can't post clips. But I can tell you the mic sounds wonderful.

Bill

[drBill]

Originally Posted by fross

That's not suprising, considering they can be had for $99.

PS - I got mine for about $80.

[goobersezhey]

Originally Posted by fross

Hey, I'm not trying to be a prick and I'm definately not trying to start any pissing matches, but I've noticed alot of interest in the Aphex 205 ribbons. That's not suprising, considering they can be had for $99.

I've also noticed quite a few folks jizzzing over Michael Joly's mod for the Aphex. Now that's all well and good, but the only person who seems to really be plugging that mod and singing it's accolades is............................Michael Joly.

I'm not in any way suggesting it's not a great mod and that it won't do what he claims, but Michael, you're always here for these "Cheap Ribbon" discussions to talk about how your mod is the schizzle and how it'll make the Aphex rival the Coles.

Again, I'm not denying any of your claims, but it just seems like aggressive merchandising to me.

No disrespect, I'm just saying.

Are there any Gearslutz out there that aren't related to, drinking buddies with or long time associates of Michael Joly that can chime in, comment on, post some clips or something?

I have to categorically disagree. I don't have a dog in this hunt; but, I can't see how someone who freely shares the mod details -- down to the parts model numbers -- can be characterized as aggressively marketing his own services.

[fross]

Originally Posted by drBill

Not related, don't know him, barely touched base with him before ordering a 205 and having it sent directly to him for modding. Dude, you are way off base. Way..

Here's my thoughts on the matter:

Apex 205 w/ Michael Joly mods

Sorry, can't post clips. But I can tell you the mic sounds wonderful.

Bill

Well now, that's what we needed to see. thumbsup

[GravityRobert]

Originally Posted by drBill

PS - I got mine for about $80.

Where did you got it? Most online retailers offer it for 99 USD

[drBill]

pm sent

[joejnyc]

War-- about using something like the onyx in a shootout--

yes, that would be a good idea, as us low enders are still not all in posession of multiple pre amp choices, and something like a mackie will sound closest to our gear.

I sure wasn't suggesting that you switch out pres for every clip! Doing front and back was useful and edifying, though.

[janek 68]

My todays comparison - TG preamp , SE Ribbon - pan left , CAD 7000 -pan right.
SE is more expensive and better - sound is balanced in all spectrum....low end is tight, mids are smooth , top is extended.
CAD - meaty , very fat , more oridinary sound similar to SM 57.Darker than SE but still pleasant as a ribbon. Stereo pan with two ribbons is rea lly exciting !

[BigJunk]

How much does the SE go for? One of my teachers was raving about it.

[warhead]

I personally own the sE R1 and it's my go to mic on guitar cabs.

To answer your question, it's normally $849.

War

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by fross

Hey, I'm not trying to be a prick and I'm definately not trying to start any pissing matches,

HAHAHAHAH!!!

The white glove is entering the atmosphere at warp speed........

[Michael_Joly]

By Monday I'll have some audio of a Coles 4038 & modifed Apex 205 shootout. Tests conducted by Juan Lardizabal of Thirteenth Floor Recording who is also an instructor at the Los Angeles Recording School.

Sources: Nylon string guitar, drum OH and guitar cab. Juan's early report has the modified Apex 205 preferred in a blind test on the nylon string guitar and is a toss up with the Coles 4038 on drum OH. Guitar cab tests to be conducted on Saturday, March 10.

I really want Juan's words and audio to speak for themselves so I'll hold off saying any more until I get his full report and audio. But here's a preview from him: "Your modified Apex 205 will make people think twice about spending thousands on a Coles 4038."

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Michael_Joly

By Monday I'll have some audio of a Coles 4038 & modifed Apex 205 shootout. Tests conducted by Juan Lardizabal of Thirteenth Floor Recording who is also an instructor at the Los Angeles Recording School.

Sources: Nylon string guitar, drum OH and guitar cab. Juan's early report has the modified Apex 205 preferred in a blind test on the nylon string guitar and is a toss up with the Coles 4038 on drum OH. Guitar cab tests to be conducted on Saturday, March 10.

I really want Juan's words and audio to speak for themselves so I'll hold off saying any more until I get his full report and audio. But here's a preview from him: "Your modified Apex 205 will make people think twice about spending thousands on a Coles 4038."

Michael, looking forward to that! I still haven't had a chance to compare the modded 205 to any other ribbons at the same session, but I'm definately likiing your version of the 205. Thanks again, Bill