Mbox and latency

[ILLSON]

ok.. so i have an mbox running 6.4 and im recording from my rode K2 (yo what a dope tube mic for the price by the way) straight into the mbox using only the preamp on the mbox, screw compression, ride the preamp! lol... anyways, im gettin a delay in the headphones from the vocal track and its messin up my girl cuz shes hearin herself delayed instead of live..

now i know about the low latency monitor mode in LE but is that only available in the 002? cuz i dont see the option

pleace someone tell me theres a fix to this.. good lookin yall!

[fadedblue]

the mbox 2 (i assume that is what you have) doesn't have an insert, so you can't split the mic pre. Your only choice is to buy a mic split and split your mic into the mbox as well as an seperate hardware mixer. then use the mixer as a monitor. this will give you proper "0" latency. Otherwise turn your latency in the mbox down as far as you can, but when singing i think i can notice like 10~ms even, which is pretty low, maybe even 5...

Other option: get her to sing without her voice in the headphones. Sing with only one headphone side on one ear. (Maybe she'll even sing better this way...). Turn off monitoring on your vocal track to do this.

[ILLSON]

where can i turn the latency down at? and i have a little mixer.. didnt think of that idea, thanks..

she already records with one ear off and i've tried muting the open track in her ears too.. i mean, its working and its not bothering her, we've been recording like that.. but this issue sticks in the back of my mind and i been tryin to figure it out.. so where do i turn down the latency in the mbox?..

i have the older mbox too so what are you talkin about when you can split the mic pre?

thanks for the help homie

[TREMORS]

Doesnt the MBox have some sort of "mix" control so you can do hardware monitoring?
Otherwise, you'd have to try and set the buffer as low as possible.


-D

[Harley-OIART]

Either set your system up as effectively as possible using all of digidesign and other users suggested settings, and then set your H/W Buffer to something like like 128-256-or-64 and you should be fine to go.

OR simply turn the mix knob on the M-Box

If you turn it all the way towards 'input' and that will allow her to hear Zero Latency Monitoring of herself through the headphone output.

[Stitch333]

dfegad usb

[ILLSON]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Either set your system up as effectively as possible using all of digidesign and other users suggested settings, and then set your H/W Buffer to something like like 128-256-or-64 and you should be fine to go.

OR simply turn the mix knob on the M-Box

If you turn it all the way towards 'input' and that will allow her to hear Zero Latency Monitoring of herself through the headphone output.

yea ima have to try messin with the h/w buffer see if it helps..

turning the knob all the way to input cuts out the music so she cant hear what else is going on...

AHHH.. just answered my own problem.. keep the mix/input knob centered and mute the open vocal track..

shit, that one was obvious.. now i remember that problem when i first got the mbox years ago.. i been doin recording in professional studios for a while for other clients and decieded to whip out the old mbox and buy a mic and record at the crib for my girls stuff since we dont have a budget like them other guys lol...

thanks sluts

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Either set your system up as effectively as possible using all of digidesign and other users suggested settings, and then set your H/W Buffer to something like like 128-256-or-64 and you should be fine to go.

OR simply turn the mix knob on the M-Box

If you turn it all the way towards 'input' and that will allow her to hear Zero Latency Monitoring of herself through the headphone output.

100% right. thats why they put the mix knob on the mbox2, as a half ass improvement over the original mbox. the mix knob adjusts the balance between the audio coming out of pro tools, and the signal going into the mbox from the preamps. the way you use this for "no latency monitoring" is you mute the vocal track in pro tools (it will still record, dont worry) so it doesn't come out of the mbox outputs with the rest of the mix. then, you adjust the mix knob so you start to hear the signal coming direct from the microphone being added the mix. what you are hearing is the music coming out of pro tools being mixed with the vocal direct from the mic (before being passed through the computer).

this is digidesign's piss poor way of dealing with latency on the mbox2. you'd be making life harder for yourself to split the mic and use mixer, the mbox2 had that built in with the mix knob. the downside is the vocalist wont be able to hear their voice with reverb or compression, but thats what you gotta deal with for low latency monitoring on a mbox2. if you find that the vocal is audibly off time from the track (if the system latency is really bad), then you can fix it by nudging the region (if you dont hear a problem, then ignore what i just said).

when it comes time to mix, set the mix knob all the way back to the default position (100% audio coming out of pro tools).



edit- after i wrote all that i realized u already figured that shit out. my bad.

[fadedblue]

Ahhh, I didn't know the mbox 2 had the mix knob. I had an mbox for about, well, 1 month, and i glanced at the pictures they had online of it. My bad

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by fadedblue

Ahhh, I didn't know the mbox 2 had the mix knob. I had an mbox for about, well, 1 month, and i glanced at the pictures they had online of it. My bad

hey, if they mix knob didn't exist, your solution was definitely a creative and practical one. its still good advice for owners of the original mbox, well done.

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by ILLSON

ok.. so i have an mbox running 6.4 and im recording from my rode K2 (yo what a dope tube mic for the price by the way) straight into the mbox using only the preamp on the mbox, screw compression, ride the preamp! lol... anyways, im gettin a delay in the headphones from the vocal track and its messin up my girl cuz shes hearin herself delayed instead of live..

now i know about the low latency monitor mode in LE but is that only available in the 002? cuz i dont see the option

pleace someone tell me theres a fix to this.. good lookin yall!

Daaaamn yo, ain't you dizown witta minimum buffer size yo? You best check that shizil, ain't nuthin like sum latency to be wackin on a ho's style, damn! Best peep yo Playback Engine menu fool! Or start yankin yo mix knob, yo be outta dis jam lickety splits!

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by DeeDrive

Daaaamn yo, ain't you dizown witta minimum buffer size yo? You best check that shizil, ain't nuthin like sum latency to be wackin on a ho's style, damn! Best peep yo Playback Engine menu fool! Or start yankin yo mix knob, yo be outta dis jam lickety splits!

[Spy!]

Greetings ILLSON,

I know you've already found a solution that works for you and that's great. However, I'm a little curious as to why you didn't use your "little mixer" in the first place?

Of course, if the preamps are shit (at least in comparison to those in the MBox) that answers my question, but if they're decent you could hook the mixer up to the MBox and have the best of both worlds. You can use the mixer to monitor - zero latency ('cept for the physical hardware latency of the signal passing through the circuitry and nothing's gonna get rid of that) - plus, if it has any inserts and/or aux you can put some verb or comp or whatever into the monitoring and/or recording chain to taste.

Just a thought.

[davenutz]

Originally Posted by nerogtr

100% right. thats why they put the mix knob on the mbox2, as a half ass improvement over the original mbox. the mix knob adjusts the balance between the audio coming out of pro tools, and the signal going into the mbox from the preamps. the way you use this for "no latency monitoring" is you mute the vocal track in pro tools (it will still record, dont worry) so it doesn't come out of the mbox outputs with the rest of the mix. then, you adjust the mix knob so you start to hear the signal coming direct from the microphone being added the mix. what you are hearing is the music coming out of pro tools being mixed with the vocal direct from the mic (before being passed through the computer).

this is digidesign's piss poor way of dealing with latency on the mbox2. you'd be making life harder for yourself to split the mic and use mixer, the mbox2 had that built in with the mix knob. the downside is the vocalist wont be able to hear their voice with reverb or compression, but thats what you gotta deal with for low latency monitoring on a mbox2. if you find that the vocal is audibly off time from the track (if the system latency is really bad), then you can fix it by nudging the region (if you dont hear a problem, then ignore what i just said).

when it comes time to mix, set the mix knob all the way back to the default position (100% audio coming out of pro tools).



edit- after i wrote all that i realized u already figured that shit out. my bad.

the mix knob was on the 'original' mbox. digidesign had a pisspoor way of dealing with latency from the beginning....ignoring it.

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Dr. Nutz

the mix knob was on the 'original' mbox. digidesign had a pisspoor way of dealing with latency from the beginning....ignoring it.

really? i never owned an original mbox, so i was under the impression it didn't have one. my bad haha. the only reason I have an mbox2 right now is because my school made me buy one, even though I've had a 002 for years.

[CaesarBass]

Mute the track you're recording, this will eliminate the latency you're hearing.

Edit: Nevermind, I just saw that you figured it out....

[ILLSON]

Originally Posted by Spy!

Greetings ILLSON,

I know you've already found a solution that works for you and that's great. However, I'm a little curious as to why you didn't use your "little mixer" in the first place?

Of course, if the preamps are shit (at least in comparison to those in the MBox) that answers my question, but if they're decent you could hook the mixer up to the MBox and have the best of both worlds. You can use the mixer to monitor - zero latency ('cept for the physical hardware latency of the signal passing through the circuitry and nothing's gonna get rid of that) - plus, if it has any inserts and/or aux you can put some verb or comp or whatever into the monitoring and/or recording chain to taste.

Just a thought.

yea i just bought some small bullshit 6 channel mixer just to have another headphone output so we can both hear whats goin on.. we're trackin vocals in the same room with the computer setup.. set up some blankets and mic stands, does the job..
the pre on the mixer sucks.. but so does the pre on the mbox, but the mbox sounds better than the pre on the mixer.. i do rough mixes at the crib then mix it in the studio on the client's time cuz rappers are always late lol..

[Oroz]

Originally Posted by nerogtr

the downside is the vocalist wont be able to hear their voice with reverb or compression, but thats what you gotta deal with for low latency monitoring on a mbox2.

For reverb you can use a Send in "Pre". That way, if you mute the vocals, you can still hear reverb on the output and the no-latency vocal comming in.

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by Oroz

For reverb you can use a Send in "Pre". That way, if you mute the vocals, you can still hear reverb on the output and the no-latency vocal comming in.

but then wouldn't there be a delay on the reverb? i guess if its not enough to bother the vocalist, then a pre fader send is a great solution.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Oroz

For reverb you can use a Send in "Pre". That way, if you mute the vocals, you can still hear reverb on the output and the no-latency vocal comming in.

Another great way to deal with this is just to use an outboard reverb. It may seem dumb at first to buy a reverb just for that, but potentially it will be a big help when you're mixing anyway. An extra reverb, CPU-free, is a nice asset on all but the most high-end DAW systems.

JSL

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Another great way to deal with this is just to use an outboard reverb. It may seem dumb at first to buy a reverb just for that, but potentially it will be a big help when you're mixing anyway. An extra reverb, CPU-free, is a nice asset on all but the most high-end DAW systems.

JSL

Good point. However, at that point I think its time to upgrade from the mbox2.

[gear head]

i'm no expert in pro tools but can't you just go to the options menu and click low latency should be there, not unless it's just on the m-box 2 pro and i would set your buffer size low and select auto input monitoring from the track menu, and for rehearsing with the track select input only monitoring i dunno like i said i'm no expert so if it doesn't work then i must be dumb

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by gear head

i'm no expert in pro tools but can't you just go to the options menu and click low latency should be there, not unless it's just on the m-box 2 pro and i would set your buffer size low and select auto input monitoring from the track menu, and for rehearsing with the track select input only monitoring i dunno like i said i'm no expert so if it doesn't work then i must be dumb

nope, no low latency monitoring with the normal mbox2 pro (thank you USB!).

[DeeDrive]

Originally Posted by nerogtr

nope, no low latency monitoring with the normal mbox2 pro (thank you USB!).

isn't the mbox 2 pro firewire?

[gear head]

yes the m-box 2 pro is firewire

[nerogtr]

crap on a stick- i didn't mean to say pro. i was thinking how the pro was firewire when i was typing that (vs the non pro's usb connection, which is what i own, and meant to be talking about). i even wrote the word "normal" before "mbox" to differentiate it from the pro, but wrote pro anyway for some reason. whatever. too late to edit. my bad. dfegad

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by nerogtr

Good point. However, at that point I think its time to upgrade from the mbox2.

I don't see why. Perfectly good interface for editing, overdubbing and mixing (if ADC isn't an issue). Adding a decent little reverb will enhance two of those activities, and upgrading to a bigger interface won't.

JSL

[nerogtr]

Originally Posted by jslevin

I don't see why. Perfectly good interface for editing, overdubbing and mixing (if ADC isn't an issue). Adding a decent little reverb will enhance two of those activities, and upgrading to a bigger interface won't.

JSL

You're right, I have one sitting right next to me right now for exactly that. However, IMHO, I personally would rather invest in a better interface before I started to buy outboard gear just to track with no latency. I track with my 002 when I can, and use my mbox for editing and doing rough mixes when I'm away from my other gear (I'm using it while I'm in NJ and away from Boston for for a few weeks). Just my opinion, to each their own.

[minks]

sorry to bring this back to life, but I am having issues with low latency monitoring on my mbox 2 pro. im using it with ableton, not protools... can I still directly monitor my inputs as opposed to go to my computer then back to my monitors? I have a very low buffer on ableton but still... i need some help as to how to do zero latency monitorning from the mbox its self.. is there a hidden switch or knob?

[M4-10]

Originally Posted by minks

sorry to bring this back to life, but I am having issues with low latency monitoring on my mbox 2 pro. im using it with ableton, not protools... can I still directly monitor my inputs as opposed to go to my computer then back to my monitors? I have a very low buffer on ableton but still... i need some help as to how to do zero latency monitorning from the mbox its self.. is there a hidden switch or knob?

The MBox 2 Pro (I have one) doesn't have zero-latency monitoring via a mix knob like the MBox 2 or MBox 2 Mini. That mix knob on the cheaper units is necessary because it is a USB interface. Firewire is much quicker (if no plugins or extra internal routing are involved) so they use a low-latency mode internally to get the audio in and back out as fast as possible. It is internal, so there is no switch. Other DAWs like Ableton might not have a low latency feature but if it exists it is somewhere in Ableton.

One way, which I prefer to low-latency, is to use a small mixer for monitoring. Obviously it's more gear and cash but small mixers are pretty useful things. The MBox 2 Pro has another cool function where the second headphone can monitor outputs 3/4, so you can route the mix to both 1/2 and 3/4, and route the tracks currently recorded only to 3/4, so the engineer can monitor the latent output (with any processing or effects he wants to try out) while the performer can monitor without latency (and possibly with other monitoring processing and effects if you want them and know what you are doing).